Microsoft updated offer still low as compared to what I’m hearing here ... take it or push for more it ?

Softvision AOoB63
Nov 4 37 Comments

Hi - I would love for you guys to help me evaluate my Microsoft offer that I received. This is for a senior backend software developer position in a startup recently acquired by Microsoft in New York City.

Initial Microsoft Offer :-
Level - Sr SWE - 64
Base - $185k
OnHire RSU - 60k over 4 years
Sign on bonus - 0
Location - Manhattan
Annual bonus - 0-40% ( average is at 20% for most employees)
Ongoing Annual Stock is 0-48k (depending on performance)

I asked for 50k sign on bonus and 200k stock and they came came back with an updated offer which isnt very good as compared to what ive been hearing here ...

Updated Offer :-
Base - $192k ( Up by 7k)
OnHire RSU - 80k over 4 years ( Up by 20k )
Sign on bonus - 0 ( No change )

Certainly higher than my current TC but I also feel low balled ... probably will be the lowest paid lvl 64 in Microsoft. Don’t have any other offers yet. Taking a few more interviews .....

Current TC - 160k
Current Location - NY
YOE - 12+ in backend development in FinTech

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TOP 37 Comments
  • LinkedIn kebab2
    Dude that’s super low wtf you have 12 YOE you should be commanding $300k+
    Nov 4 12
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      Recruiter said bonus is 0-40% and stock 0-48k
      Nov 4
    • Microsoft (:£81)
      Ok so if you 100 on 0-200 slider ie “meets” then you get 20% and 24k.
      Nov 4
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      So 250ish TC ...
      Nov 4
    • Microsoft (:£81)
      Btw how were you interviews? How’s promoteiq team?
      Nov 4
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      Interviews were very easy going and conversational .... people seemed nice and not the “we’re here to be condescending” types ...
      Nov 4
  • Microsoft trbebdj
    Have an offer from Amazon. The comp will depend on the team. Some teams can give you many times more RSU. It also depends on when you join (eg great if you are one of the first).
    Nov 4 2
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      If I had an offer from Amazon I would take that LOL
      Nov 4
    • Microsoft trbebdj
      Microsoft benefits worth 15k over Amazon. So take that into account. Better WLB and low stress as well. People move to Amazon only if the offer is 20% more than Microsoft.
      Nov 4
  • Microsoft TqoN12
    192k base for l64 is at the top of the band for sure. Sign on is a commitment of how bad they want you. Get as many RSU’s you can now, because it’ll be tough to replicate that through refreshers unless ms revamps their stock targets.
    Nov 4 2
    • BlackRock fuckFANG
      So you’re saying they don’t want OP that bad ? Hence no sign on ?
      Nov 4
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      @TqoN13 - I asked 200k and they gave me 80k .... not sure how much I can push ?
      Nov 4
  • Amazon trailblzer
    Yeah that’s low
    Nov 4 0
  • McAfee draxadic
    Budget of the upstream team comes into play and what you are doing vs how hard it is to get candidates. “Backend dev” for an traditionally on prem app that isnt driving transformation vs a dev in analytics are going to have different budget allocations for people acquisition.

    That being said: what makes you happy? Will the money do that? Will the upside opportunity of stock do that? Are you genuinely likely to be happier in the new role?

    Sometimes we lose sight of that. I know plenty of miserable friends at AWS who regret the move but feel bound by the golden handcuffs.

    Your offer is ok, its not great. Base is high, the rest is meh, and the lack of sign on says either they aren’t high on you as a need OR their team just may not have the budget they can burn in that way.

    So. What do you want? Is the job better? Is your life going to be better? If those are “yes” then how much are you going to be really focused 2 months from now on where you were vs levels.fyi or some millennial coming on blind with a ridiculous offer at sr swe (but with history at FAANG with autonomous drinking ops or whatever the current thing becomes)
    Nov 5 5
    • BlackRock fuckFANG
      Wow some great talk here .... but isn’t it annoying to see people ( or “millennial” as you said ) with no experience or barely 1-3 years getting paid way more than you who had 10+ YOE ?
      Nov 5
    • McAfee draxadic
      Sort of. Moneys not my motivation. And technically I am a millennial too, if only barely.

      But I would say there is distortion in the market where hubris isnt always reconciled to the specific circumstances that surround someones numbers.

      Competitive offers matter. Specializing matters. Demand matters. Labor market availability matters. Ability to monetize the end product matters. Your interview performance matters.

      For the same role an A candidate with must have performance can be hired very differently with more negotiating room than the next person thay is a B- “but we need more people” hired into the same team right next to them. Even orgs with bar raising intent still have split decisions and “just barely” hires - the just barly may be a bit higher...

      Anyway, beware making the decision for the wrong reasons. I made big money quickly. I promoted quickly. And then realized that wasnt my passion. For some thats ALL that matters. They will hang on to the burning stake for the next 3 years to get that last 10k of negotiated upside.

      Know yourself and what will make you happy. I know too many people trying to bandage the bleeding at work with dollars and toys on the weekend. The most valuable commodity in your life isnt money, its time. You will never get this decision right now back.
      Nov 5
    • BlackRock fuckFANG
      Yes all that matters in building the offer but let’s not forget systemic racism , ageism and misogyny are far from being irradiated .... it’s quite possible OP is getting offered for all the reasons you mentioned and/or for some systemic bias ... quite possible a wasp male in OP’s situation would get a better offer

      Also talking philosophically about what matters to oneself is a diff topic ... but that should change the fact that people doing the same kind of work should be paid equally
      Nov 5
    • McAfee draxadic
      Sure. Or the Hiring manager could have skinned thier knee on the way to work after a saturn ion dropped on the third stoplight they went through on the way to work.

      I can and am intent on being part of solution in systemic bias, but when it comes to advice, im going to focus on what candidate can control in considering if the company wont move in offer.

      Also be very careful in trying to read ANY intent in offer negotiations. Agree that bad practices happen. With microsoft they have a diversity review on offers to help with some of that, but its still not perfect.

      You can however make inadvertently career or relationship limiting remarks by assuming malace.
      Nov 5
    • BlackRock fuckFANG
      Agreed on the malice part ... one can’t learn and grow if one blames everything on others .... but then when does one stop and say “wait am I being low balled here?” .... also isn’t it counterintuitive to offer a job to someone you as an interviewer/employer didn’t like so much ?
      Nov 5
  • Bloomberg F.U. Money
    Too much math. For comparison — here is my L63 offer for Seattle which I consider to be very much on the high end - 175 base 0-30% bonus (15% for meets expectations) 50K RSU per year and 50K signing for a total of 276K per year during the first 2 years and 251K per year afterwards.
    Nov 4 3
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      Which team and location was this for?
      Nov 4
    • Bloomberg F.U. Money
      Azure Seattle.
      Nov 4
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      Nice .... did you accept the offer?
      Nov 4
  • eBay zxdRc4?
    Do you have competing offer? That might help pushing it. Otherwise, if it’s too off from levels.fyi, skip it? (unless you badly need it)
    Nov 4 3
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      It’s higher than my current ... but I wonder if that should be my motive ?
      Nov 4
    • eBay zxdRc4?
      While you’re in the flow, why not interview and get few more offers?
      Nov 4
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      I did take multiple interviews and barely 2 offers solidified... third one that’s cooking still says they are working with HR on the budget for the role ... it’s so tiring and frustrating ... I want to start on a new project and then concentrate on my health and mental well-being ....
      Nov 5
  • Microsoft Bli d911
    Base pay is very good (that will play into your bonus and annual stock refresh). Pretty low RSU, imo you should ask for more.
    Nov 5 1
    • Softvision AOoB63
      OP
      I spoke to the recruiter ( from a headhunting firm) Who forwarded my resume to Microsoft for this position… They said that nobody ( hire by the aquired group ) has received a sign on bonus… I am wondering if that’s how the budget for the acquisition has been allocated… And if I have leeway into getting a bit higher base and some more RSU
      Nov 5
  • Microsoft ChouZhu
    64 target cash bonus is 0-30 with 15% being the target. The 0-40 with 20% as target is just wrong. That starts when you get to 65/principal.
    Nov 5 0

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