Moving out of Google. Evaluating options.

Google cRnt44
Apr 27 67 Comments

I'm an L5 at G (~10 YOE, TC: ~440K). Have offers from Amazon (L7, TC: ~480K), Netflix (Sr, No numbers yet) and FB (E5, no numbers yet). All are in Bay Area. Need help thinking through the options.

I like my team, manager at G, but I've been here for 4+ years and I think I want to try something new. Moving to a new team requires similar amount of building social capital and all, so I thought moving to a different company would at least give me monetary hike.

I have mixed feelings about all the three options-
1. Amazon: Pro: Higher level and more responsibility. Con: Culture isn't similar.

2. Netflix: Pro: Insane cash and shorter commute. Con: Cutthroat nature and mixed reviews on culture.

3. FB: Pro: Shorter commute. Con: Stressful job.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something? I need some help thinking through options.

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TOP 67 Comments
  • Nvidia wagecuck
    L7 SDE or SDM at Amazon is considered very prestigious but the TC seems like a lowball.
    Apr 27 5
    • Roku
      ⛽️

      Roku

      PRE
      Yahoo
      ⛽️more
      There comes the prestigious idiot.
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft Omni
      L7 at Amazon is L6 elsewhere. It’s not a lowball, average L5 offer is 350. L6 is 450. So it’s slightly above average.
      Apr 27
    • Nvidia wagecuck
      What? This isn’t about company prestige lol, titles are a real thing and L7s in AMZN SDE or SDM are normally responsible for multimillion dollar projects. Highly doubt any of the other companies would give you visibility like that.
      Apr 27
    • Facebook gEKd54
      Multimillion dollar projects? What does that mean?

      That's not how all of these companies work... it is not just measured in money.

      (E.g. how do you quantify leading the work on a feature used by 100m people every day? )

      And I've seen 5s on fb contributing 100s of millions of dollars to the top line in one half
      Apr 27
    • Amazon
      seattle'd

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon, Salesforce, Google, Microsoft, Apple
      seattle'dmore
      There are ex-google folks at Amazon who are at L6 and above. I have not seen any ex-googler at Amazon below L6. For L6 and above external hires, Amazon pays maxed out base and tons of stocks which all together is a very high TC.
      Apr 27
  • Oracle IAExcptn
    I didn’t know NFLX is cut throat.
    Apr 27 7
    • Oracle IAExcptn
      Cutthroat has nothing to do with FAANG (not FANG); the term was coined by Jim Cramer of CNBC to capture high ROI tech leaders.

      Failed to look smart buddy. 🙃

      Cut throat is, for example, Uber and Amazon vs. G which is not.
      Apr 27
    • Bloomberg / Eng iVX372
      Uber doesn't seem to be cutthroat anymore, based on the recent poll by Tsukino showing that 0% of Uberites and Googlers feared losing their job.

      F (50%), A (80%) and Netflix (100%) are all highly cutthroat. Percentage in parens represents poll respondents at those companies who fear losing their job
      Apr 27
    • Twitch / Mktg Poor_AF
      Dude. Nflx has this 80 page culture deck that is public. In it, one of the slides reads "average people will get a severance package"
      Apr 27
    • Netflix quickster
      Yeah, I'm at Netflix and at least in my corner it's super chill. People show up at 9 and go home at 5. I love it, though I can only speak for myself.
      Apr 27
    • Oracle IAExcptn
      @quickster that’s what I’ve heard as well, hence the surprise.

      I get that one have to perform (and I like it), and cut throat means something something else to me. For example, every player in an NBA team must perform to retain their contract, and that’s not cut throat.
      Apr 27
  • Stay at Google, you will be sad you left if you go to any of those companies, especially Amazon. Amazon will be a severe culture shock if you like Googles culture. You will miss the feeling that as an employee you are actually valued and treated well.
    Apr 27 6
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Great point. Thank you!
      Apr 27
    • Amazon TzHp72
      Right on the spot
      Apr 27
    • Lyft wXfl07
      Its a feeling only if you aren't bored at Google. If you are numb with boredom at Google (very common), feelings are not worth $100k of TC sacrifice.
      Apr 29
    • Google drand49
      Disagree. Amazon doesn't pamper their employees, but I also think engineers are better respected. Depends what you want.
      May 24
    • Amazon LS2044
      It really all depends on your personality. Drand is absolutely right. Amazon does not baby their sdes.
      Jun 5
  • Google / Eng
    GCoin

    Google Eng

    PRE
    Apple
    GCoinmore
    For FB, only go if they offer L6
    Amazon’s level is good but TC increase might not be worth the added stress/responsibility
    Apr 27 4
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      I told the recruiter initially that I'm interested in E6. When they made an offer, I'm said it would be tough to give E6 for L5 at G due to moral reasons. Recruiter is aware that I have an L7 offer from Amazon though.
      Apr 27
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Reading through Blind, I realized it's for my own good to be at E5 and get higher pay than jumping directly into E6.
      Apr 27
    • New / Eng abuhr3i
      I didn't get it. Why getting to E5 is better than E6?
      Apr 27
    • Google / Eng
      GCoin

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Apple
      GCoinmore
      If you were a newly promoted L5, I would agree.
      Apr 27
  • Bloomberg / Eng iVX372
    @OP if I were you I wouldn't leave Google for any of those companies. The only ones I'd consider are Twitter, Airbnb, LinkedIn, Square, Uber, Pinterest and a few others. Your 3 options here are by far the most cutthroat companies in tech. See my reply to the comment above for data on this.

    Imo no amount of money is worth hating your life.
    Apr 27 1
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Thanks for the advice.
      Apr 27
  • Netflix bylg32
    Op, do you get number from Netflix? Could you share your number from fb and Netflix?
    Apr 28 5
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Not yet. Will get it in a couple of days and will post here.
      Apr 29
    • Honeywell / Eng that1guy
      We. Need. Numbers.

      Anything yet?
      Apr 30
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Sorry, got them. Netflix gave their first offer at ~456K and I sent it back. FB gave a laughably low offer of ~300K and I said No. Given that the comp hike is very marginal and I'd be experiencing a big change in culture at both Amazon and Netflix, I'm leaning towards sticking around Google.
      May 3
    • Honeywell that1guy
      Awesome thanks a ton for the info. Have you considered taking that info back to Netflix and negotiating?
      May 3
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Netflix is still working on it, my guess is unless they come up with more than 500K, it's not worth leaving Google for it. I also want to venture into management soon, Netflix has very limited opportunities for that as compared to Google.
      May 3
  • Google euBx84
    Are you close to an L6 promo? Amazon L7 is legit af, but only 10% pay increase. Hopefully Netflix or fb will throw a big number to make it a tougher decision for you.
    Apr 27 3
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      I don't know about L6 promo, may be ~1.5 years to go. Amazon intially came with an offer matching my G comp and I sent it back. They said they can't move beyond 480ish and gave a deadline to accept.
      Apr 27
    • Amazon Break1M
      This is utter BS by the way. 480k is low band for principal offer. Top of senior band is 440k in Bay Area and 400k in Seattle. They can easily go to 550k.
      Apr 27
    • Amazon LS2044
      Top of the band is closer to 600+
      Jun 5
  • Amazon HouseBezos
    Wait how are FB and Netflix shorter commute? Google is in the middle of them...
    Apr 27 2
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      237 takes a huge chunk of time, distance wise Netflix is farther, but takes less time. I'm in Milpitas/Newark area.
      Apr 27
    • Amazon azmix
      As L7 SDE in the Bay Area you’re likely to have a very very flexible schedule to avoid the traffic or going to the office every day to begin with :-)
      Apr 27
  • Facebook gEKd54
    Fb is usually stressful for people in one of the following camps:

    1. New to the company
    2. Performance issues
    3. Pushing hard to get promoted

    In most teams, if you are fine with e5 - shouldn't be that tough (unless you are used to cruising in your previous role).

    If you want a fast promo (and you are ready for it) that can result in bad wlb, BUT that also means a fast promo...
    Apr 27 1
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Thank you. This is helpful to know.
      Apr 27
  • Google topCon
    Amazon offer is solid, but not much more than your current TC. Culture shock, over worked, and totally stressed out. Sure that's what you want? Ask for 540k.
    Apr 27 0
  • Facebook metaclass
    What’s the future look like at G? Move teams... promotion... etc? What can you learn? What can you do because you’ve already built a rapport there?

    I don’t think FB is stressful. As long as you are excited about doing 50 things and iterating/killing some .... vs google where you may do 10 things really well... even if they are failures as products.
    Apr 27 0
  • Netflix Lovers
    I am like you, but other way around. At Netflix, considering jumping to G/FB.
    May 3 5
    • Honeywell that1guy
      I’d love to hear some differing opinion. What makes you want to make a jump from N to G/F? How long have you been at N? You’ll mostly be looking at a pay cut at least, maybe. So it must be culture maybe?
      May 3
    • Netflix Lovers
      Been at Netflix 4 years. Talent density is not great here, career growth feels stagnant (no levels, promotion process is opaque), learning/skill growth is plateaued. FB has matched, G down leveled me.
      May 3
    • Bloomberg / Eng iVX372
      How is talent density not great at Netflix? Are the constant firings mostly political, as I've long suspected?
      May 3
    • Quora vhQW50
      Hi @Netflix, Wondering how much Google downleveled you? And are these companies be able to match your current TC?
      May 5
    • Microsoft leetworld
      Can you explain talent density thing?
      Jun 26
  • Amazon sFez81
    I would not recommend going to AMZN. You'll regret.
    Jun 22 0
  • Microsoft OgUa26
    Is the Amazon offer with Aws?
    Apr 27 0
  • LabCorp / IT
    (◕‿◕)

    LabCorp IT

    PRE
    Amazon
    (◕‿◕)more
    I would have voted for Netflix due to the pay scale however I am not familiar with the work culture & performance reviews.
    Apr 27 0
  • Expedia ¥₩$
    Y not use Netflix offer to negotiate with Amazon?
    As a Principal sde the impact and quality of work could be very big in diverse companies like Amazon.

    Media service has huge competition so not sure how Netflix could be in longrun.
    Apr 27 2
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      Amazon isn't willing to negotiate and gave me the final offer with 480K. I believe they are valuing their stock more (recruiter kept saying this multiple times).
      Apr 27
    • Amazon azmix
      Yes, the stock is “expected” to grow 15% YoY, with most of your comp being stock you might be making a bit more than what they offer you today (and effectively for the first two years). Just be ready to get no salary increase or incremental RSUs for the next 3-ish years.
      Apr 27
  • Amazon / Product
    dreambigYo

    Amazon Product

    BIO
    Anyone Hire Product Manager :)
    dreambigYomore
    Very nice offers OP, which team is this for Amazon? What team are you at now in Google :))??
    Apr 27 0
  • Amazon Break1M
    Suspicion that you were downleveled to L6 at Amazon. An actual L7 offer should not be that low if it is final
    Apr 27 2
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      L7 confirmed from multiple sources.
      Apr 27
    • Amazon Break1M
      In that case they are giving you a low band offer, which is rare. Top of band is around 700k in Bay Area, around 650k in Seattle. I would push for 600k minimum in Bay Area, 550k minimum in Seattle. If they wont negotiate, you need to show evidence of your market value. At L7+ comp is more about negotiation and less aligned strictly to bands.
      Apr 27
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      I tried interviewing at smaller companies like Lyft, I felt the interviews went well, but result wasn't favorable.
      Apr 27
    • Google az16ad
      But it is a smaller company.
      Apr 27
  • Microsoft Ms4life
    Amazon L7 is very hard to get. It's like 66 in Microsoft or L6 google (e6.5 fb). But you got Netflix so you can definitely get more out of Amazon if you want to go that route.
    Apr 27 1
    • Google cRnt44
      OP
      I'm hoping getting numbers from Netflix will help boost best offer.
      Apr 27

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