My girlfriend has an offer to work at Google...

New / Consultant JTOI43
Mar 30 76 Comments

She has had telephonic, video and on site interviews. Out of 8 employees she met only one was a woman. The woman was in product management.

Google claims that 20% of its tech employees are women.

Is that really true for Google engineering or RND?

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TOP 76 Comments
  • eBay ohjio06
    Does that bother her or bother you?!
    Mar 30 19
    • Facebook hte668
      In case it hasn't been clear, I am making 2, pretty uncontroversial claims here:

      1. Google is not less likely to have sexual harassment just because it's Google. It is likely on par with other similar companies.
      2. Google purposefully lied about the sexual misconduct of a number of high level employees and paid them out, choosing to protect these men.

      My takes from this:
      1. It's totally valid to be worried about sexual harassment at Google. Pretending it doesn't exist because Google is naive.
      2. suggests that maybe this is a big corporation, that is not so unlike many other big corporations that don't give a damn about what is fair or right.

      What do you think people are walking out over?
      Apr 8
    • Google ovBk62
      I agree it happens at Google and is as likely here as other similar companies such as Facebook. I also agree that Google did not disclose the reason for departures of Amit Singhal and Rubin etc.

      I'm not sure where else you've worked in the industry before these companies. I have friends who have worked at lesser known companies and have had outrageous things done to them. And when they did complain to HR and senior executives, nothing was done.

      Taken out of context, comments such as "men get away with it" makes Google sound like that kind of a place, especially to people who have heard of those kind of stories. And that was my objection to your comments.

      My point was that yes, Google has issues. So does Facebook, Microsoft and what not. But it isn't as bad as those companies. Here, even people who gave Google it's crown jewels such as search are let go when they were accused of sexual harassment. Sure, they were given a fancy severance package, but there were repercussions. Singhal wasn't allowed to go around harassing women here even though he was one of the most important people here.
      Apr 8
    • Facebook hte668
      But he was able to go on to his next job, free to harass people there because no one knew. He was given an amazing amount of money to be fired. Somehow I don't see this as that much of a punishment.

      Getting away with, in my mind, is facing almost no meaningful repercussions. These men did not face financial hardship (they were more than compensated for being fired, for no legally obliged reason - hence the board being sued by shareholders) and they did not have their reputation damaged (they were allowed to pretend they were quitting and go on to be in other positions of power). Do you think the women who were the actual victims here were compensated as well as they were? Do you think they had the same job prospects afterwards?

      I think it's a stretch to go from me calling out these two cases, to me saying that any man can get away with this at Google. I've been very clear to point out that this shit happens everywhere.

      At the same time, it's a particularly poor time to *immediately dismiss any concerns over sexual harassment because it's at Google*. Your leadership has demonstrated the way they deal with these claims, and to most people, it does not look like punishment. Maybe 'getting away with' is the wrong term. I think 'protecting' is probably a better description.

      Have you been part of the walk outs? Why/why not?
      Apr 8
    • Facebook hte668
      Also, my God, them firing people because of demonstrable sexual harassment does not prove anything. If they didn't, they would be sued. This is the legally prudent thing to do - it's not some moral stand.
      Those guys were not entitled to severance. That's the optional thing that Google decided to do. Along with lying about why they were leaving.
      Given the option of having my employer sued, and all my dirty laundry being exposed, or getting fired + millions of dollars and being able to pretend it didn't happen, I think I'd also go for being fired. This was the best possible outcome for those guys, given what they'd done.
      They were given an amazing, undeserved gift by Google. What about this is controversial?
      Apr 8
    • Google ovBk62
      Yup, they protected the harassers. Not sure why - maybe to avoid washing their dirty laundry in public. I don't think it was the right thing to do.

      I was objecting to these actions being called "getting away with it" because an outsider who has not been following these events keenly, can misinterpret them as I pointed out above.

      Seems like we agree on other things, so we're cool :)
      Apr 8
  • Apple RcvW67
    No those numbers are overall considering every role in the company. The core technical roles are rarely given to women and if you go by that you will get less than 5% .
    Mar 30 4
    • Google ovBk62
      Citation needed.
      Mar 30
    • Google / Eng bgduonfe
      It's more like 9% female SWEs
      Mar 30
    • New / Consultant JTOI43
      OP
      I think RCVW67 is right. Read the diversity report, https://diversity.google/annual-report/. They give GLOBAL figures for female employees,. and MISLEADINGLY juxtapose it with racial breakdown of American employees... Looks like they want to hide the low proportion of female employees in the US.
      Mar 30
    • Google ovBk62
      It says 21% of employees in tech are female. The number of TPM roles is very low compared to engineering, and there are plenty of men in TPM too. I'd say 17-18% of all engineers are women.

      I've been in teams with 40% women and teams with 5% women. It really depends on the team. If there are some women in the team, it's easier to attract more. If there are only men in the team, it's harder.
      Mar 30
  • OnDeck GPgj02
    Who cares? The market is the market. Just because a bunch of women want more women in tech doesn't mean it'll happen just because they wish it. If more women study CS and start working in tech, then you'll see a more balanced population of engineers. At the moment, most tech workers are guys, and that is who Google will hire.
    Mar 30 6
    • Cloudera hkhfc56t
      Perception is.. you are female and fighting on wrong platform by hiding identity.
      Grow up and leetcode to get hired
      Mar 30
    • Amazon xNSH82
      Exactly. The reason google has x% female engineers, is because x% did better than their male competitors. If you care so much about the cause, go start a school to help them study. Don't expect google to lower it's standards.

      I'm a female engineer, and I have received everything I did by hard work. And if tomorrow someone were to tell me I was a diversity hire, it would hurt me and make me feel inferior to my colleagues. Hiring should be merit based.
      Mar 30
    • Google / Eng Bluths
      If 29% are CS grad, that means women do have equality of opportunity. What more do you want? Mandate that every hire is a woman?
      Mar 30
    • Bloomberg / Eng iVX372
      @OP where did you read that 29% of US CS bachelor's grads are female? I'm pretty sure that number is still around 20%. Remember that not every CS student becomes a CS grad.

      Moreover, how do you know that the percentage of women in technical roles across Google is only 5-10%? One team doesn't necessarily have the same percentage of technical women as the entire company.
      Mar 30
    • Google ovBk62
      There are more women in CS now than there were 10 or 15 years ago. It takes a while for them to make it into industry.
      Mar 30
  • eBay abababbb
    She got hired at google and this is your concern...worry about meaningful stuff
    Mar 30 4
    • New / Consultant JTOI43
      OP
      Male dominated places are also hostile to women. She has had bad experience with sexual harassment...
      Mar 30
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      Most women in engineering roles at Google are treated very well. Many female engineers gravitate to product management or TPM roles because they find them more interesting. Pure RND has a somewhat dorky reputation.

      She should not hesitate. Take the job
      Mar 30
    • Amazon OTdS88
      Which place is she working now that's not male dominated? The whole industry is this way
      Mar 30
    • Facebook hte668
      Huhf13 are you a woman at Google? To be making these claims? Despite the recent walk outs etc?
      Apr 7
  • Uber austin83
    I've been on eng teams at Google that have 30-40% females and on teams that have 0-5% so it depends. I believe average at a larger org is between 10-25%. I'm happy to help her navigate teams in team matching if needed
    Mar 30 1
    • Google sDcR36
      Yes, it really depends on the team. Don't let that discourage her, there are some teams that are much more gender balanced than others. Take this person up on their offer.
      Mar 30
  • Uber muressdfg
    ‘the woman was in product’

    hahah does that mean product is not a tech role because it does not involve black screens and sandals with white socks?
    Mar 30 1
    • Facebook vggy677
      A pm is not an engineer, no.
      Apr 6
  • Amazon / PR jefe_bezos
    I mean... she’s a woman in tech and unfortunately that means equality numbers are not going to be in her favor. The best bet is finding a team with an acceptable balance within any company.
    Mar 30 2
    • New / Consultant JTOI43
      OP
      We want to know what percentage of the team in RND is female.... Sounds like the percentage is below 5%
      Mar 30
    • Amazon xNSH82
      Why is this so impodtant to you?
      Mar 30
  • Facebook / Eng PureWin
    Tech roles include product management and many others besides engineering.

    Anyway, I would advise accepting or declining the role based on her interest in the company, it’s projects, and how it will advance her own career. We already know the numbers for women in tech are overall shitty, so there’s no point to dwelling on it.
    Mar 30 4
    • New / Consultant JTOI43
      OP
      Would you agree that in RND and engineering, it is going to be 95% female...
      Mar 30
    • New / Consultant JTOI43
      OP
      I meant 95% male
      Mar 30
    • Google ovBk62
      Stop cooking up numbers OP lol. It is way higher than 5%. Go look into the reports Google publishes.
      Mar 30
    • Facebook / Eng PureWin
      I don’t know Google’s specific numbers, but there has been overall great progress in the last 5 years.

      Once again, if being in a male dominated field is a deal breaker for her, then she won’t be comfortable anywhere in Tech.
      Mar 30
  • Microsoft Tiffany&co
    yea stop hiring men until gender equality is achieved. Also consider trans and non binary representation
    Mar 30 2
    • Microsoft
      MP3

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Troll living under the I-5 overpass
      MP3more
      I heard they were toying with the idea of opening up to non-human candidates. Personally, I’m waiting until they open up to the idea of installing heli-pads on the rooftops which is the safe space we require to work.
      Mar 30
    • Amazon xNSH82
      Haha
      Mar 30
  • Google PageRanker
    Congrats to your GF.
    Like in any other company, most women at Google are in non-SWE roles. Management, QA, UX, Marketing.
    They inflate the numbers in the reports. E.g. of the four female SWEs on my team two are guys and one is a diversity hire.
    Mar 30 10
    • Facebook / Eng PureWin
      @PageRanker - I looked up the program. It seems to be similar to the FB Rotational Eng program. While both programs are meant to help with diversity, there are no restrictions for who could apply.

      Also, if people succeed in the program and are able to perform well on engineering teams, what difference is there from other programs like summer internships?
      Mar 31
    • Google PageRanker
      There is not much difference vs internships except these folks count as employees in statistics thus boosting the diversity numbers.
      Mar 31
    • Facebook / Eng PureWin
      Yeah, but why bother differentiating them as “diversity hires” once they successfully become FTEs? Do you feel those pipelines are illegitimate?
      Mar 31
    • Google PageRanker
      I don’t want to say anything bad about these programs and my sample size is trivially small, but in my sample it is obvious the person would not stand a chance in the regular HC. She is a nice young lady so maybe it is fine as far as this topic is concerned.
      Mar 31
    • Facebook / Eng PureWin
      Is she able to perform the job? Yes? Then whether or not she could get hired by the HC is irrelevant. Perhaps that’s feedback on the effectiveness of the HC rather than her capabilities.

      If she’s ineffective in her role, then presumably she’ll get managed out of the company and that particular hiring pipeline will be re-evaluated.

      Either way, singling out this person is no different than seeing a former intern underperform and labeling them as a “internship hire”. The categorization is largely unnecessary.
      Mar 31
  • Equifax
    flstercluk

    Equifax

    PRE
    Chase Paymentech
    flsterclukmore
    What’s a telephonic interview? Kinda like a telepathic?
    Mar 30 2
  • Airbnb somensbke
    Small sample size
    Mar 30 0
  • New / Eng
    GardenBish

    New Eng

    PRE
    Google
    GardenBishmore
    Holy shit congratulations to her. Thanks for being so supportive
    Mar 30 0
  • Bloomberg / Eng iVX372
    Truth be told, OP is probably insecure about being dumped in favor of a Googler. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for posting. Otherwise, the GF would have posted here herself.
    Mar 30 1
  • Amazon qhUc80
    I understand why you are asking the question. But keep in mind it’s never going to rise if she turns down the job based on the current percentage.
    Mar 30 0
  • Amazon gte305f
    Being a woman in tech (at Google now), I understand her concern. Google publishes a public diversity report. I would suggest reading that. My eng org is roughly 10-15% female. Unfortunately at any large company, there will be incidents of sexual harassment but overall all I have found my coworkers at Google to have high EQ and to be very cognizant of the biases and behavior. That being said I do find it difficult to find common ground and connect with them as most skew towards very nerdy, techy where as my outside interests are not tech centric.

    https://diversity.google. There's a link to the report on that page
    Mar 30 0
  • Trulioo ama123zon
    Who cares
    Mar 30 0
  • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
    It's because they have been paying women more so it's more economical to hire men. True story
    Mar 30 0
  • Uber wfhj
    For a woman in a male-dominated field, this is always a problem, starting from in schools and internships. It's just a part of life. Many women I know don't have a problem with it.
    Apr 10 0