Nego low TC, Multiple Groups.

Undisclosed Dr_Strange
Oct 6, 2018 32 Comments

Just finished my onsite with MSFT this week and got verbal offer from recruiter. Quite low.

L62, $137k base, $50k RSU (over 4 yrs, not per yr!), $20k signon.

Recruiter seems to be unwilling to negotiate, probably playing some kind of game. I have two offers that have TC $200-220k (but not FAANG), and location and company is not optimal for those offers. I told recruiter my competing offer numbers, but he's giving me the usual crap of how we are at max. My current employer is not FAANG.

I also have another MSFT onsite next week.

Should I:
1) Play hardball and call the recruiter bluff, aka give me $200k or I walk. What if they rescind and move on to their 2nd choice? I really want to work at MSFT.
2) Reach out to the hiring manager, saying how much I wanna join but they're lowballing me. I really like the team and build good rapport with the manager during onsite. Not sure if going direct to manager is 'allowed'?
3) Stall and go for the other MSFT onsite next week, maybe the team there will give better TC, assuming I get offer? If I do this, how do I manage the inter group politics such that I don't piss off both groups?

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TOP 32 Comments
  • Amazon Nozama
    You don’t have a lot of leverage if you’re not willing to walk away.
    Oct 6, 2018 0
  • Microsoft DOyu71
    I've seen recent offers around 145/180/40 for 62 and a few higher than that. Not sure why the recruiter is lowballing you. Was your interview perf subpar?

    If you have the hm's email, send a note saying something like "I think I'm a really good fit for the position and I'd like to take it but I have an offer with better compensation that I intend to take" then be willing to do just that.

    By all means try to go with the other team in ms but be aware that if they know you are working with another team then will they to "coordinate" the offer. It might work out though, if you turn down the first team for comp reasons as the second team *may* give a better offer..
    Oct 6, 2018 1
  • New poRd04
    How long does it usually take to reach 62?
    Oct 6, 2018 1
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      From 59 average is about 4-5.5 years.
      Oct 6, 2018
  • New poRd04
    OP, stock is too low. Did you interview with faang? Do you think you have a good chance of getting offer from them? I'd say don't accept this crap. Your TC is practically 150k aftet 1st year, not counting the sign on
    Oct 6, 2018 1
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      Other FAANG still in the pipeline...
      Oct 6, 2018
  • Amadeus Trick2g
    Tell Microsoft to fuck themselves because you have better offers. Play hardball and tell them that you need them to beat your other offers or else you will walk away.
    Feb 12 0
  • Microsoft GrwthMinds
    Sorry, that is what you are going to get at MS for L62. And it's not unreasonable level for 4yoe. So you have a call to make.
    Oct 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft alex9537
    Typical MSFT HR trick, don’t believe any words from them, the max is just crap. I do see ppl got higher RSU in lower level
    Oct 6, 2018 0
  • Pivotus Ventures MQXO26
    If non FAANGs can afford to pay you 200-220k, I’d expect MS to be able to pay a lot more. Tell them that explicitly and be prepared to walk.

    Also that lowball seems super fishy. Is this a recruiter on Microsoft’s payroll or some third party? It isn’t uncommon for third parties to be taking a cut off your salary...
    Oct 6, 2018 6
    • Pivotus Ventures MQXO26
      I see where you’re coming from. If I were in the same position though, I’d simply ask the recruiter “Why should I pick MS over the others?” To push in a lowball offer in spite of explicit knowing about better competing offers is not wanting the candidate bad enough. And if that were the case, I’d personally not wanna go there...
      Oct 6, 2018
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      And they would give you all kinds of reasons like benefits, breadth and depth of opportunities to work in different, cutting edge technologies, growth and learning opportunities, etc, etc. And the thing is, they know a lot of people will sign. if you're one of the ones that dont, oh well. That sounds harsh (and it kind of is) but the reality is a *lot* of people apply at Ms. Knowing what the numbers should be can help and at least will let you know if you're being taken advantage of.

      Of course this all changes if you had a stellar interview and/or have a competing offer from faang. Then they will be much more willing to start higher and negotiate higher yet.

      Even still, ms does lose battles on salary but only recently to a a degree where they've started altering compensation packages. I'm all for giving people as much knowledge as possible to get them the best offer because eventually it will trickle up to my level (I hope).
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      It's a MS recruiter not 3rd party. I'm not sure what went wrong during the interview (if any). It looks like I am screwed if they won't move on TC, since even if second team wants me they can't offer until I reject the first? Is there anyway to coordinate (assuming team 2 wants me) to switch the offer across groups?
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Pivotus Ventures MQXO26
      @DOyu71
      I’d call their bluff via a systematic side by side comparison of offers on the table. A lowball shouldn’t be hard to prove. And if they don’t budge, well then I personally wouldn’t wanna work for them

      @dr_strange
      If they don’t you pay well enough, reject their ass . Simple.

      Point this out to the other team and tell them you’re willing to go ahead w the interview only of the current offers are bettered
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      No, if both teams want you at the same time they will coordinate the offer. You'll get 1 offer that may or may not be higher than the one they've already presented you. Probably not much to be honest. If you turn down the first team and the second team likes you you will get another offer. With a competing offer, ruening down the current offer may induce them to offer more for team 2 because they know you are serious about turning down the offers. That's what I was getting at.

      You can do a side by side comparison. But I thought OP already told them there are other offers. Sadly if its not from a company ms considers to be worthy, the competing offer may not mean much.

      You could also go the route of saying you wont continue without a better offer. If they call your bluff you'll either have to say "just kidding" or actually walk away. With the approach of turning down offer 1, it shows you mean business with another possibility to get an offer.

      It sounds like OP wants to work for ms and that's true of a lot of people. This is how they've gotten away with not being competitive on industry hire offers in the past. I mean op can always say no and take one of the other offers but if op wanted to so that we wouldnt be having this thread.

      OP, If you have a fang interview, you may want to try to delay ms until it completes. A competing offer from there will likely change the equation here considerably.
      Oct 8, 2018
  • Microsoft nKKF86
    Other onsite won't matter. Different groups are not allowed to make higher offers. All offers go thru the same HR department.
    Oct 6, 2018 6
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      They can if you turn down the first offer. They are likely not going to give you 63 anyway, but 200k is certainly possible at 62.
      Oct 6, 2018
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      That's rolling some hard odds if I have to reject the first offer right? There's no way to know if the second team will offer or even give a better offer... I thought MSFT was supposed to coordinate and give one offer after you interview all teams? That's why I was really surprised when team #1 called this week...
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Microsoft nKKF86
      This is very unusual and likely a screw up from someone. Part of the approval process for an offer is that HR checks to see if there are no other recent offers.

      I'd just be very explicit with your recruiter saying that you don't want the lower offer and that the other team can make a higher offer if you pass and be very explicit.
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      Hmm.. so it looks like stall the offer, go for second onsite. If that goes well reach out to recruiter for 2nd interview, explain the situation ( I have MSFT offer and competing numbers, and I would love to join second group if you can match my competing offers )?

      The only risk I see if after rejecting team 1, team 2 did not follow up on verbal agreement
      Oct 7, 2018
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      It is a risk, yes.
      Oct 8, 2018
  • Microsoft tcgtfo
    200k is senior level TC. You need convince them to bump to 63.
    Oct 6, 2018 2
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      Recent datan on blind indicate that $200k for L62 is doable? I thought L63 was $250k+
      Oct 6, 2018
    • Microsoft MSFTnoob12
      You're correct for external offers Dr. Strange. Even interns get 120k stock and 50k cash joining bonuses of return offers. They can certainly do better. Tell the recruiter that and straight up ask for more.
      Oct 7, 2018
  • Microsoft pYJz32
    With the numbers you listed that’s a TC of $207k. I think 4 year experience is low to be expecting much more.
    Oct 8, 2018 1
    • Undisclosed Dr_Strange
      OP
      The RSU is over 4 yrs, it's not per yr... I would accept MSFT with TC $200k+ at L62....
      Oct 8, 2018
  • Yoe? Role?
    Oct 6, 2018 1
  • New EVlp62
    62 and 4 yoe. No need to complain, imo
    Oct 6, 2018 0

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