New Grad Choosing Microsoft over Google and Facebook

Google / Eng LXGT40
Dec 8, 2018 69 Comments

I want to be able to work in Seattle for my partner, something only MS will let me do.

I'm wondering if my career trajectory will be less?

Will I be less desired by recruiters because I didn't take my Google/FB offer and went to MS?

I'm a new grad. This is my first FTE SWE offer. Microsoft would be hiring me at a slightly higher level (L60 instead of standard L59 new grad), and Google/FB are new grad level.

TC: After taking into account COL FB > MS > Google.

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TOP 69 Comments
  • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
    No. The MS would not that bad on your profile. Also, you are having a shorter path to SDE2 as you are getting L60. Congrats and enjoy time with Partner. Jobs will come and go!
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft GqlB43
    If anything, you would be someone a recruiter at FB and Google would scout because they know MS compensation can get stale after 3 years. MS is a really diverse ecosystem of products and opportunities- we are still wearing the stink of the Ballmer era, but things are genuinely turning around. I think MS is a great first step, and your opportunity to learn from more senior folks is much greater that FB- that’s for sure.
    Dec 8, 2018 2
    • Microsoft Wiiiiii
      Yes, you can learn lots of politics from senior folks.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft WABh32
      First hand experience 😋
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Microsoft Wiiiiii
    WTF, DO NOT COME!
    Really bad environment for new grad. Our stock bonus is peanut that discourages you to work hard. FB and GOOG have Seattle offices as well!
    L60 - L64 get paid like shit, and great talents have been moving to F/G. For L65 and above, they just rest and vest by doing many politic works.
    Dec 8, 2018 6
    • Microsoft kZwEyL
      It is really bad over here. But the politics will kick in 2nd-3rd year of your job. Until then, you will most likely not be able to tell how decisions over here are not made with logic but instead by ego.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google TYAPU
      @Microsoft. That shit happens at Google too. Politics are everywhere
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng
      teiw62

      Microsoft Eng

      PRE
      Facebook, Airbnb, Amazon, Google, Coinbase
      teiw62more
      Every company has good and bad teams. Judgement without any team context is meaningless.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      Politics hard in new grad SDE? Oh come on you guys, don't lie. Politics influence PMs most, devs are pretty shielded until they become managers.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng pjbrwdf
      If you like the team and the eventual work, then definitely come, new grads have a sweet deal. Don't listen to this indian dude.
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
    Op: why are you jotting down plan for next move/promo? Learn from pagination algo, it's lazy loading. Decide on current circumstances.

    It's personal time with partner vs good CV label.
    Dec 8, 2018 4
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      If I don't go to Seattle, my partner wouldn't as well. She would end up taking an alternative offer at Google that isn't PM (what she would do in Seattle and what she wants to do)
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      It's trying to make the best career decision for both of us really.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
      Understood!
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng 🍤🍤&🌭🌭
      In that case, the decision is simple. Take the MS job. Your partner gets a much better career choice and you get a potentially less good career choice. But only potentially and only a little. Seems simple to me.

      Negotiate the best team / pay you can at MS. Then spend a year focused on learning and meeting as many people on other teams as you can. Focus on results, not effort. Don’t let the thought of another job enter your mind.

      After a year or so, take a couple of days off with your partner and talk about options. Your choices are stay on the same team, find a new team in MS (this is why you need to network!) or look at G / FB. Keep your connections warm with the recruiters you turn down. They likely won’t be the recruiters you work with but they will know who is.

      Make your decision with your partner and commit for another year. Keep repeating but remember the 4 year cliff.

      If the right job finds you or your partner during the commitment period, evaluate it. But don’t spend a lot of time continuously looking. Focus on results and meeting people (and your life together of course)

      You’re coming off a 16 year commitment to your education. Another year or three is nothing. Your less than desirable choice still puts you in the top 5% or so (top 1% world wide). Commit to making the most of it then reevaluate.

      btw - my kids recently graduated and that’s the exact advice I gave them and their friends.
      Dec 9, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng 🍤🍤&🌭🌭
    Microsoft varies dramatically depending on org. Don’t believe everything you hear / read as it’s not universally true.

    If you come to Microsoft, there will be a “new hire cliff”. Your pay will go down substantially after 4 years, so plan your exit accordingly.

    If you have offers from G and FB, negotiate for more stock / sign on bonus. There’s money on the table (unless they’ve already raised the offer 3-4 times). Salary is much less flexible so don’t try there.

    Depends on your interest, but I would want “cloud” or “AI” as they are the most valuable skills in the market today. I would avoid office, windows and other MS centric teams.

    I would work with my recruiter on the team first and the money second. Gives you a chance to build rapport. Have a conversation. Explain what your passionate about and ask which teams do that. Say something like I hear the Azure networking team is doing some really cool stuff. Can you tell me more about opportunities there? Do as much by the phone as possible. Build that rapport.

    Once you start talking money realize that she (I’m playing the odds) has a limit. Above that she has to go to her manager. You want to get to that offer. Use your rapport.
    Dec 8, 2018 1
  • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
    Did you point blank ask your recruiters at FB and Google if you could work in Seattle instead? This seems strange.
    Dec 8, 2018 3
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      Google/FB don't have new grad headcount in Seattle
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      Is what I was told by my recruiters
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google TYAPU
      Don't work at Google remote office as l3. Your better off starting your career outside of Google first.
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Dow Chemical NHHG65
    Hey, stay with MS.
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft kZwEyL
    Come to Microsoft. But keep preparing for interviews. Allocate a decent amount of time outside of work to keeping up with latest trends in the industry. And more often than not, Microsoft will be catching up with, not leading, the industry.
    Dec 8, 2018 5
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Which I'm sure is why I have stacks of recruiting email and linked in contacts from these other so called industry leading companies after working at MS for years.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft kZwEyL
      They know people at Microsoft are frustrated with the compensation, so are being opportunistic by finding great talent and making an offer better than the peanuts we get paid here but not as great as they once were willing to pay.
      Dec 10, 2018
    • Microsoft kZwEyL
      And you are getting email from other companies because the labour market is very tight and there just are not enough candidates available. Don’t mistake getting email from other companies as anything else. I dare you to interview and see how well you do. You will learn a lot about how other companies operate in the industry.
      Dec 10, 2018
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Already have at google and Amazon. Offers from both. I already know how other companies operate. Very similar to Microsoft except more koolaidy and more depressing respectively.
      Dec 10, 2018
    • Microsoft kZwEyL
      Good for you.
      Dec 10, 2018
  • Google Mmkaay
    Microsoft is good but both Google and Facebook have offices in Seattle. I heard that Facebook is opening offices in Bellevue and Google already has offices in Kirkland and building a new building in South Lake Union
    Dec 8, 2018 3
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      Google/FB don't have new grad headcount in Seattle
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Egencia / Eng
      lazy_lad

      Egencia Eng

      PRE
      Expedia, Siemens Healthineers
      BIO
      Software engineer always on the lookout to explore alternative domains or career paths.
      lazy_ladmore
      You could have moved eventually it is difficult in 1 but definitely within 2 years it’s possible
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      That is true. I don't want to do long distance with my partner though.
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Microsoft Batman007
    Microsoft is very good company, but if I have a choice I would go to Google or Facebook
    Dec 8, 2018 1
    • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
      Consider spending time away from yours partner that too after toiling in grad school!
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng
    LiftMore

    Microsoft Eng

    BIO
    Christian. High aspirations, low expectations.
    LiftMoremore
    Great choice. Move to Seattle google / FB after getting SDE II (2 years easy). You can easily request Seattle only at that point
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Intel / Eng
    MITTE

    Intel Eng

    PRE
    Google, Amazon
    BIO
    Hardware quality and reliability professional
    MITTEmore
    Go with G, while you have option. Career trajectory from there will be all up.
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Wanna be
    Microsoft is fine. Just don’t work there for over 3-5 years.
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft pmsquared
    Very smart choice.
    I work with college hires and they normally move up quickly and into better roles after a year or two.
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft msww88
    With all that's happening, Microsoft is not the least preferable choice. It's a great company.
    Dec 8, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Product TacoBoss
    Go with G to start your career
    Dec 8, 2018 5
    • Microsoft pmsquared
      Friend went to Google, they brought him on at level 3. He’s still level 3, same time since then they offered to bring me on at level 6. So.
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      Were you both fresh grads? He must be lvl 3 for like 10 years
      Dec 8, 2018
    • New
      bloogle

      New

      PRE
      Facebook
      blooglemore
      I don't think G keeps L3s around for 10 years. There's a certain period you need to make L4 by
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      Would you still say that if I did Google SETI instead of Google SWE?
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
      No in case of SETI
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
    OP, this is potentially tough to hear but it sounds like the people who review site-specific offers for SEA at FB and G were more impressed by other new grads who wanted SEA.

    MS isn’t a career death sentence. I’d reapply yearly to FB and G (or elsewhere) once you have some experience.
    Dec 8, 2018 3
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      I haven't gone through the review process for Seattle. I asked I could potentially and they said there wasn't headcount
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      If I could potentially go through it*
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng pjbrwdf
      The recruiters contacting me are specifically looking for senior, so I believe it.
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Microsoft DOyu71
    You will in no way be less desirable because you went to ms. Take the offer then see what happens. You can always move to google or fb as l4 if you want in a couple of years after you get promoted. Or you can wait until senior and move as an l5. Or you might decide there are other opportunities in ms you want to explore. Lots of opportunities for that as well.
    Dec 8, 2018 2
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      My concern is that if I try to switch companies after I get to L61-L62 (SWE 2), I'll end up being downleveled to L3. Any insight?
      Dec 8, 2018
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      I've never heard of anyone having this problem and if you do just say you want to interview for l4. I dont know anyone who has moved to google as an l3 and I know quite a few people who have left from ms (although all but one have returned). I wouldnt worry about this.
      Dec 8, 2018
  • Expedia / Eng bghflw
    What are you going to choose? My boyfriend is in a similar dilemma as you
    Dec 10, 2018 1
    • Google / Eng LXGT40
      OP
      MS SWE.
      Dec 10, 2018
  • Google / Eng akline
    You're a new grad and concerned about leveling? Priorities, dude....
    Dec 8, 2018 1
    • Google demoo
      What should they prioritize? I’m a few years out from graduation and am unsure on what I should look for
      Dec 8, 2018

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