Oracle Seattle offer

Microsoft oo7o
Mar 4, 2018 36 Comments

Considering Oracle Seattle, I am senior at msft with 6.5yrs exp. Oracle is giving me principal with 165base 400kstock 25sign on.

Questions:
1) offer numbers?
2) is it going to be hard to jump out from oracle, heard it does not have good rep. (I mean no disrespect to people there, just trying to get opinions specially from people already there)

comments

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TOP 36 Comments
  • Microsoft BADCODE
    I’m probably going to get violent disagreement on this, but here goes :)

    Oracle certainly has a “stink” to it, mostly because of Larry (what’s the different between God and Larry Ellison - God doesn’t think he’s Larry Ellison), and old development/engineering practices. Does that sound like Microsoft 5-10 years ago? It’s possible for companies to turn this around, but it takes changes at the top, and what, Larry is 73 now? We never thought that we’d wrestle MSFT out of Ballmer’s hands, but it happens and in very short time turned the company around.

    There’s certainly tiers of companies, and Oracle isn’t in the 1st tier. However, generally you get your foot in the door for your next job through your network, and not a resume drop, so last company matters a lot less than people think vs your reputation, what you did, and interview performance once though the door. Yes, you have to fight against the company reputation, but should be easy if you are good and continue to put effort into your future career.

    Oracle is in a position for the fight of their lives right now. They missed the cloud big time and if they don’t have a serious offering they are going to go the way of IBM, but worse. From what I’ve heard Oracle overly favors buy vs build and loves canning projects (early), but (at scale) cloud infrastructure can’t be bought and needs to be iterated on. I believe that there’s still time for them, although they won’t be #1 (AWS) or #2 (Azure), but have a good shot at being #3 over Google - they have the enterprise sales/support channel and customers that absolutely want to move to the cloud (or a hybrid stack they don’t manage) and can be a niche player. The transition to the cloud is early days still and there’s still more than enough money to be made for even #3 (or #4) players, *if* they can put together a competitive offering (and why they are hiring like mad from AWS and MSFT to “buy” some of that experience in).

    All this means they are offering outsized offers - 30-50% over-paying is what I’ve seen so far. It’s a risk, but may be worth it and they may be able to turn Oracle around.
    Mar 4, 2018 0
  • eBay whitman
    I would not go to Oracle. It's a sinking ship. Terrible culture. Pathetic leadership. Go to Salesforce or workday instead. Larry laughed at cloud in 2010. Now he's a laughing stock. Have some pride. Avoid it at all cost.
    Mar 4, 2018 8
    • Microsoft oo7o
      OP
      That's not the case in the cloud team, they pay well now
      Mar 5, 2018
    • Microsoft BADCODE
      They way I’m seeing/hearing of things is that it’s like when MSFT started Bing up in 08/09. The rest of the company was a steaming pile, but the Bing team was insulated to a large degree and made a big effort to hire “not microsofties” (full disclosure, I was part of that group, but not now). There was also a guarantee of funding for n years, as again MS figured that Bing was necessary corporate asset, and they weren’t wrong - the seeds of existing cloud infrastructure came from there, as did the ML/AI lots of the company relies on now. That was 10 years ago (seems a lifetime away) and IMO has been successful - against giant competitors like Google, it’s competitive and profitable.

      There’s no reason Oracle can’t do the same. As I said, it’s a risk, but perhaps one worth taking. And disclosure again, I’m being asked and considering it, but it’s really hard because I have a great role, team, and comfortably well paid already.
      Mar 5, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng kgkfnk
      @badcode you have it kind of close about MSFT. But the search team started several years earlier. We released MSN search on our platform in 2005, then there were the live years. 08/09 was really just rebranding.

      I agree that the comparison you are making is apt.
      Mar 5, 2018
    • Oracle wNCK66
      nowadays even oracle new grad makes more than oracle senior and some principle (even they all both none bmc )
      Mar 20, 2018
    • Microsoft / Product Bostonian
      @wNC... First of all it’s “principal”. Second of all, not true. They bring parity to senior levels. So don’t spread fake news.
      Mar 24, 2018
  • Oracle yKic65
    I can't speak for anything but Oracle Cloud but I was at AWS for 5 years and all the trash talk I hear coming from others makes me laugh. There are a lot of smart and dedicated folks here in Oracle Cloud and we are BUILDING really cool things. This is a place to go if you want to really make an impact. It's got a lot better culture, pay, WLB and most importantly, no douche co-workers with a fucking chip on their shoulder. Don't listen to negative feedback from "reputation".
    Mar 5, 2018 1
    • Oracle / Eng JeffMezos
      There are douche bags definitely
      Mar 5, 2018
  • Oracle @w
    Wow. We really do have a bad reputation.
    Mar 4, 2018 6
    • Oracle @w
      Dude, you guys talk about oracle as if we are a third world country company where simply working gives you herpes. And you are from Microsoft.

      Figure out on your own. I am from Microsoft myself but I have no intention convincing you.
      Mar 4, 2018
    • Microsoft oo7o
      OP
      That's fine if you don't want to share any facts, and clearly I am asking for advice and am considering it and do not have an opinion on it since I have not worked there
      Mar 4, 2018
    • Amazon JezzBefos
      When you hear the blatant lies being announced to investors of Oracle, it's hard to picture positive things when imagining working there.

      But I've heard pay is above average, so there's that. I doubt you'll have trouble finding a job after the company inevitably slams into the wall, you're not a CEO
      Mar 5, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng ClouDev
      @JeffBefos, this is rich coming from Amazon between WLB and suicide survivors.
      Mar 5, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng droptable
      No company is perfect. Nearly every company is run by a egomaniacal ass clown. If the work looks interesting and the package is good, and the ephemerals like WLB are good, the decision is simple.
      Mar 5, 2018
  • Microsoft BADCODE
    I’d like to hear from someone at Oracle that isn’t drinking the kool aid as well. As awesome as the place may or may not be, everywhere has its downsides, so what are they?
    Mar 8, 2018 4
    • eBay gadkari
      I used to work there. All these engineers can continue their Oracle lovefest just because their team had more funding but it cannot hide the fact that as a whole Oracle has one of the most uninspiring leadership and pretty lackluster talent. A big chunk of their employees are there just because they can work remotely and get by with minimal amount of work. It is extremely common to get promoted with zero percent increase or bonus. Don't be surprised if Salesforce and workday surpass it within a few years. It is pretty common for employees ambitious enough to leave Oracle to double their TC.
      Mar 8, 2018
    • Microsoft BADCODE
      Is that true with the BMC/OCP groups? All I hear from people in those groups is “it’s different”, which may be true (was in Bing in mid ‘00s), but they aren’t offering big salaries for nothing.
      Mar 8, 2018
    • eBay gadkari
      It may very well be different but for how long is anybody's guess.
      Mar 8, 2018
    • Oracle @w
      Maybe I am one of those kook aid drinkers. I don’t give a shit what others think. If you are not confident on your own talent and think that a company name will hold you back, nobody should actually hire you cause you are a shitty dev anyway.

      I don’t know about rest of the Oracle but I see mostly good tech people around me. Of course there are few who I wouldn’t wanna see. That’s what happens when you hire aggressively and very few wants to come. We used to get mostly amazon people. Now a lot of Microsoft people. And I gotta tell you, you guys live in a box. I used to live in that box too.

      Overall I cannot complain. When you are near 400k with the potential to reach 450+ or even half a mil, fuck yeah I am gonna drink that Kool aid.
      Mar 8, 2018
  • Uber Friends!!
    Why Oracle? Come to Uber
    Mar 4, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Product NewR2D2
    I have two friends in oracle. They are doing amazing things and my friends (IC 6s) are very happy and invested. Don’t know about the offer, though. Sorry I can’t help there.
    Mar 5, 2018 0
  • Oracle tomg46
    The Oracle “stink” thing is complete bullshit - what matters is what you are doing there. We are talking about a company with 140k employees that acquires a new company every month or so. Every serious hiring manager or recruiter knows this.
    Mar 8, 2018 1
    • Microsoft BADCODE
      Sorry, but try this thought exercise. You are a hiring manager and five resumes hit your desk - software engineers who’s last role (say 3 years) were on infrastructure. One from Microsoft, one from AWS, one from Oracle, one from Facebook, and one from Google. You aren’t going to interview all of them, so which ones do you look at first?

      Once “through the door” and into the interview loop, then absolutely it matters what you do and how you personally are. On paper however people look very much the same and the company/companies you work for is a good signaling function.

      Which also means getting next/future jobs via applying for positions and sending resumes out is kinda pointless- it’s all about your network, and the best jobs are not advertised.
      Mar 8, 2018
  • Oracle Rgmg26
    w.r.t. reputation: I left Oracle; in my new position, my hiring manager is vehemently anti-Oracle but still recommended my hire. This may or may not be related to the fact that I was at Oracle for only 2 years.
    Mar 5, 2018 0
  • Salesforce ozEK82
    Joining oracle is definitely a risk but as someone said high risk...high reward..
    You are already getting salary and title bump. Now you should look at role & responsibilities you will be getting. If you are getting significant bump there also then go for it.
    Mar 4, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Zxcv123
    Op, what else is there?

    - future growth?
    - future rsu refreshers?
    - future bonus?
    - general benefits?

    Good to find these details as well.
    Mar 4, 2018 3
    • Microsoft oo7o
      OP
      Yes to rsu refresher, future growth depends on how they do with the cloud platform in general
      Mar 4, 2018
    • Amazon yomani
      RSU over 4 years?
      Mar 4, 2018
    • Microsoft Zxcv123
      Op, for future bonus/rsu refreshers, do they give ranges like ms has for levels?
      Mar 4, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng ABC12345$6
    Is this IC3 or IC4 level?
    Mar 5, 2018 1
    • Microsoft / Eng ABC12345$6
      I missed reading principal offer, so it’s IC4
      Mar 5, 2018