PIP an Asian but got fooled

Amazon NewManager
Jun 10 52 Comments

I was his manager and I won’t say he was smart since he couldn’t even speak fluent English. He always disagreed and argued with me in meetings which made me look really bad. So I had the plan to have him piped. I assigned him specially designed ops tasks with traps so that I could report his concerning work quality to HR and eventually got him out of here. While I was waiting for his crying and begging after I threw pip paper on his face, however, he literally just said OK and left the room. In another one week, I silently walked him out of the company and my plan worked! But very soon I was told he fell into my pip trap deliberately in order to get the severance money and had already secured a new job with a 50% TC increase beforehand! F***, I got fooled!

How can I do better next time?

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TOP 52 Comments
  • Amazon / Eng sde3
    Interview where he moves to and become his manager again.
    Jun 10 0
  • Twitch / Acctg Yamazaki21
    Well played op. Assuming you are actually the guy that got let go, I hope the severance was well worth. And good luck on your new job. 50 percent bump to tc also sounds amazing
    Jun 10 1
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      Thought you were smart? Just as what I thought of myself.
      Jun 10
  • PayPal theniceguy
    By measuring smartness by English fluency, you proved that you are a dumbhead. And, instead of helping your team member, and working through conflict and his positives, you tried to fail him. You are an asshole.
    Jun 10 9
    • Amazon dune37
      English fluency is a proxy for smartness. Especially for someone who’s been in the US for a few years and has a US masters. If you have trouble learning a language that you use everyday, what else do you have trouble learning?
      Jun 10
    • Yahoo / Eng DYQr00
      Language fluency is a proxy for smartness not “English fluency”... you know that Americans on average can only speak English while other nationals speak more than one languages. So your argument is suggesting majority Americans are dumb?
      Jun 10
    • PayPal theniceguy
      I don’t agree with your logic. I have worked with smartest of engineers that used to have technical books in their language at their desks (including head first series on languages like python), still design and code like a beast, and now work for FANGs/Uber etc. I used to have hard time communicating in our discussions but found a balance over time. I think not everyone smart can go design planes. Not everyone smart can be an astronaut and do spacewalks. Not everyone smart can go become an artist. It’s the interest and circumstances that make you shine in a particular area. Fact that the guy has secured another offer proves he isn’t that bad in communicating. Whether this post is a troll or not, such insecure and cunning managers are assholes.
      Jun 10
    • PayPal theniceguy
      Btw, my reply was to the dune37 of Amazon
      Jun 10
    • New / Eng
      articuno

      New Eng

      BIO
      🤔 If I write a bio that seems to defeat the purpose of Blind.....so hello person that reads this 🙂
      articunomore
      “Dumbhead,” my mind countered your censoring and inserted profanity. Lol username checks out
      Jun 10
    • Microsoft cheinebs
      It doesn’t matter. OP is not the manager. It is his attempt to make people criticize his manager. He is leetcoding to have that dream come true after PIPed.
      Jun 10
    • Amazon dune37
      Sure, but any moderately experienced engineer needs to communicate a lot. If your English is at the level of Tarzan and you can only leetcode and optimize inner loops without being able to lead a technical discussion and explain your designs, I’d doubt you’re very smart.
      Jun 10
    • Microsoft cheinebs
      Absolutely agree that communication skill is critical.
      Jun 10
    • Google azhkys
      Communication is critical but you can still communicate at an acceptable level without great English. In fact I dare say listening carries more weight than talking.
      Jun 10
  • ViaSat qjoxke
    Good story.
    Jun 10 0
  • Quora mDXn01
    From my perspective, he is not good at social, but from another perspective, you are a bad manager and not preofessional.
    Jun 10 0
  • Google azhkys
    "I won’t say he was smart since he couldn’t even speak fluent English"
    Jun 10 0
  • Groupon richiew
    Amazon pays severance for PIP employee? Where is frugality principle?
    Jun 10 2
    • Amazon Doby2468
      Well we are frugal where we can be. I am happy that we recognize the importance of sending off employees “properly” here. I hope you are just trolling, and don’t realize there are shades to everything...
      Jun 10
    • Twitch / Acctg Yamazaki21
      It's like insurance. It's more frugal to pay the insurance and make sure unhappy employees don't come back and sue and cause a pr storm. The little bit of severance is nothing and leaves everyone happy
      Jun 10
  • Microsoft giffy
    Very bad manager you are, stupid ass.
    Jun 10 1
    • Microsoft cheinebs
      OP is a troll. You got fooled
      Jun 10
  • Salesforce rcno01
    Lol
    Jun 10 0
  • Box desrt
    LoL good story. Pretty sure OP is not the manager. Well played and congrats. Yeah the shitty Amazon managers...
    Jun 10 1
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      You are just as smart as what I thought of myself. Congrats!
      Jun 10
  • Apple stankeye
    Hey NewManager, you’d fit straight in here at my department, if Amazon doesn’t work out for you, I’ll hook you up, the sky’s the limit for you here at  bro.
    Jun 10 0
  • Lyft / Eng 2019ipo
    You are just a asshole manager
    Jun 10 0
  • Oracle SfsM37
    Maybe you need to be on PIP for punishing a team member for Disagree and Commit. He was insisting on the highest standards and you were not it.
    Jun 12 0
  • Netflix ye651t
    Fake.
    Jun 10 0
  • WeWork / Data
    p🥔tato

    WeWork Data

    PRE
    Amazon, eBay
    p🥔tatomore
    Omfg what’s your problem with people. I’m so appalled a terrible person like you can be a manager.
    Jun 10 0
  • New / Eng
    Psynaptic

    New Eng

    BIO
    Working on Brain Machine Interfaces
    Psynapticmore
    You can do better next time by not letting your insecurities get in the way of your job.
    Jun 10 0
  • Apple VKjg08
    Amazon does give severance to PIPed. Not a lot. I think it’s 2 months base salary.
    Amazon has a flow it goes like
    Dev list - kinda like a lighter pip, one gets no raise and no refreshers. Has to complete a goal to get out of the list, daily work report is not required.
    Pivot - if one failed to get out of dev list, he’s at pivot. One can appeal, if success he gets out of dev list. If fail he have two options. Door #1 take a good severance and leave. Door #2 stay and face PIP
    PIP - filed with low severance.
    Jun 10 1
    • Chase gelatoAnd
      I do heard guys from jpmorgan strategically request to be in cut off list during “reorg” so they can take severance package. Never heard of cases where PIPed. lol
      Jun 10
  • eBay KlIA18
    Little did you know that he went home and f***ked your wife.
    Jun 11 0
  • LinkedIn mtndew💚
    No way any company would give severance package to underperforming employees, unless Amazon is really dumb enough to do that
    Jun 10 0
  • Cisco baQk38
    The fact that op hasnt replied to anyone proves that op was the guy who got piped.
    Jun 10 0
  • New
    ( .)(. )

    New

    PRE
    Cisco, Amazon
    ( .)(. )more
    You want to give this role a chance: Lead asshole?
    Jun 10 0
  • PayPal theniceguy
    Too many “you are an asshole” comments here.. let’s get some variety flow in here please.
    Jun 10 0
  • Chase gelatoAnd
    no way! so in Amazon, people who got PIPed and actually PIPed can still be eligible for “severance money “?! I thought severance money only for those guys working properly with just bad luck of company reorg or strategy resize or something!!
    Jun 10 2
    • Amazon Doby2468
      Or if you work with a renowned tech company, and run afoul of harassment policies....
      Jun 10
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      Because the company wants to keep their mouths shut
      Jun 10
  • Microsoft cheinebs
    It looks like Blind is full of naive people who fell into OP’s lies. Pretty sure he is not a manager and it is either a fake story or his to let out as a person on the other side (aka PIPed employee imagining such a happy scenario due to stress). I don’t know how many engineers are fooled by such lies.

    No wonder many believe leetcode hard is a good way of finding good engineers while good number of cheaters are out there (eg group of friends helping a friend to make one pass the screen and share interview problems from a specific office).
    Jun 10 1
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      Thought you were smart? Just as what I thought of myself.
      Jun 10
  • GE kvqo48
    Was he right when disagreeing with you in meetings?
    Jun 10 1
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      Mostly either way would work; both could have pros and cons
      Jun 10
  • Spotify 56hgtYlA
    It sounds quite petty to be mad that your former direct report for being able to get a better deal after you deliberately tried to get them fired.

    Either start off by improving your own management skills or go back to being an IC.
    Jun 10 1
    • Amazon NewManager
      OP
      It is not easy; there’s pip quota from senior leadership.
      Jun 10
  • New
    Uoseidon

    New

    PRE
    Yahoo
    Uoseidonmore
    it made me laugh, a good one.
    Jun 11 0
  • Microsoft / Eng gqne23
    IDK if its a true story. But that guy sounds AMAZING
    Jun 10 0
  • Microsoft LPiV33
    why blind have so many trolls?
    Jun 10 0
  • Ingenious Med / Product lifeline
    Sounds like you just have a problem with Asians
    Jun 10 0
  • Adobe / Eng lemontea
    Severance with pip? Doesnt work that way wherever I have worked so far
    Jun 10 0
  • Apple / Eng
    neverSt0p

    Apple Eng

    BIO
    Just an another engineer. Hoping to find a few friends here :)
    neverSt0pmore
    lol
    Jun 10 0

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