Engineering

PSA: HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND

Databricks / Eng
datadicks

DatabricksEng

BIO
I suck
datadicksmore
Aug 30, 2017

For the engineers out there. it is less hassle to quit than complain to HR about anything. HR is never your friend.

comments

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  • IMS Health lnxrx
    That's true for any tech companies
    Aug 30, 201714
    • Takt / Mgmt
      1manarmy

      TaktMgmt

      PRE
      Google, Amazon
      1manarmymore
      Very true
      Aug 30, 2017
    • PayPal iWantLikes
      So true.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Except Google maybe? Enough people complained about James Damore
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      Someone leaked it to the press, which is what you should always do with important things instead of going to hr
      Aug 31, 2017
    • I've heard from others that they've had good experiences with Google's HR
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Intel tellnomore
      In case you haven't learn this from school and your wife(or husband): engineers and non-engineers sometime have very different mindsets when solving problems
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Bloomberg / Eng2A58A
      True
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Snapchat Gmork
      So very true. They are in place to protect the company, not to be a resource to any humans employed there
      Aug 31, 2017
    • PayPal f38cnd
      The real truth is always in the comments.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Airbnb bunbarr
      What Gmork said
      Sep 14, 2017
  • Amazon biatch
    "Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family."

    Michael Scott
    Aug 30, 20173
    • Imgur / Other
      Eggplants

      ImgurOther

      BIO
      Working in operations, looking to make a career change to design.
      Eggplantsmore
      If I had a gunย with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and Toby, I wouldย shoot Toby twice.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Google / OtherOogieBoogi
      ^ underrated reply!!! ๐Ÿ˜‚
      Aug 30, 2017
    • VMware yvJS68
      Definitely under rated.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Boeing / Eng
    RallosZek

    BoeingEng

    BIO
    I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
    RallosZekmore
    I once complained about unethical Behavior about my manager to my HR department and the next day my manager pulled me aside and asked me about it
    Aug 30, 20175
    • Databricks / Eng
      datadicks

      DatabricksEng

      BIO
      I suck
      datadicksmore
      OP
      HR is always on the manager/company's side
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Zenefits menH12
      That was super unprofessional
      Aug 30, 2017
    • GoPro @@@@@@
      Not always on manager's side. Always on company's side.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      Yeah, that was at Boeing btw, so I'm still here, but needless to say HR can go F themselves
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab inDv67
      That was unprofessional
      Sep 12, 2017
  • Google / EngMwBW01
    HR works to protect the company from lawsuits, not to protect YOU from your coworkers. Unless your issue is big enough to take your employer to court over, HR Will always attempt to sweep it under the rug.
    Aug 30, 20172
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      And if you work at a "disruptive" company where execs believe the government doesn't real, they may blow off even lawsuit material
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Airbnb jTUk50
      And if it's big enough to take them to court, but the lowest risk approach is to fire you, they will find a way
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Uber staffEng
    Don't complain about issues at work to HR, just write a blog about it lol ๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ
    Aug 30, 20174
    • Salesforce netto
      Make sure to do proper marketing of the blog too
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Facebook Zhuowei
      And to write a book first!
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Hope your blog goes viral and the internet mob does your complaining for you!
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Uber pi$$ed
      First you need to make sure there is an investor pissed with the CEO so they would spin your story in the media.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Microsoft xHKC12
    HR works for the company. They are paid by the company. To protect the company.

    Notice the common word there?
    Aug 30, 20174
    • NewRelic / Other
      LOGOBR

      NewRelicOther

      PRE
      Oracle
      BIO
      Tech finance w/ FP&A background
      LOGOBRmore
      "The"?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Amazon / Eng
      ikr!?

      AmazonEng

      PRE
      Expeditors
      ikr!?more
      *facepalm*
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Salesforce / Productsave
      Lol
      Aug 31, 2017
    • AppDynamics / DesignJVus48
      Lol
      Aug 31, 2017
  • HPE WTHpe
    I've already complained to HR because a manager, during a meeting, asked my age to only say I was still young/naive just to "prove" a point. He got a 25% pay cut that month.
    Aug 30, 20177
    • Pure Storage / OpsJR3573
      Wow!! 4 people quit because of my old manager within 6 months and she got a fucking promotion. SUCH a joke.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Wish vandelay
      Young age isn't a protected class...
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Google / Eng
      eYiX63

      GoogleEng

      PRE
      Airbnb
      eYiX63more
      Sure, you get to peek into his paycheck. Can't believe that got 5 likes
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Nordstrom peaches3
      JR your old manager sounds like mine lol team of 8 had 6 leave. Every one told HR it was because of her. Promo for delivering results.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • No, you do not peek into their paycheck. See also: percentage. Actually, I believe that in such cases the "fine"is measured in work days.

      In any case, racial, gender, age or sexual orientation discrimination (or indeed, anything against the "standards of business conduct") will get HR swarming over the offender real quick, managers included. Also, unlike some companies here, sexual harassment is a very sure way to get fired. This is one of the bright spots of HPE's HR(I'm assuming also HP).

      This does not mean that HR isn't on the company's side. If you have an abusive manager who knows never to cross any "SBC" lines, then you are just as screwed. There are standard policies like preventing people from moving if they are on pips. Also, internal transfers can be blocked if you are on the team for less than two years(used to be one). So you can get screwed just the same.

      Just not in ways that are too unethical.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      If commented story is true, you've been black marked. Every manager around you knows, no manager will want you working for them, and HR will probably brief any potential new managers on your history. Nobody wants to fear their employee. Sorry. This is just the way the world is. You might want to think carefully about doing that again. Hopefully you have a new manager now. The old one will most likely fight hard to promote everyone except you
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Databricks / Eng
      datadicks

      DatabricksEng

      BIO
      I suck
      datadicksmore
      OP
      No fucking way that story is true. We have a manager like that and he got promoted.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Microsoft undefined
    What kind of thing are you talking about? How can we judge if you raised a real issue or some bullshit?
    Aug 30, 20178
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      One person's bullshit is another person's real issue
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft undefined
      No not really
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Airbnb jTUk50
      Is there a decent chance of you winning a lawsuit over it? Then it's a real issue
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      It's accurate regardless of the issue that prompted it. Never trust managers, never trust hr. For serious issues, going public is always the fastest way to get a satisfactory manager response.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      Just look at the damore firing- zero movement from hr until Google got bad pr over it.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Google / EngMwBW01
      Yeah, because damore shouldn't have been fired
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      Wrong, jackass
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / EngMwBW01
      The guy calling me a jackass also believes that crying to the public when managers don't do everything you want is an appropriate response. Hmmmmm
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Google / Engdgrvdv
    This goes doubly in the case that you're a white male. HR is automatically biased against you.
    Aug 30, 20177
    • Pure Storage / OpsJR3573
      So ridiculously true.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      Confirmation bias. They're biased against everyone who complains.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Google / Engdgrvdv
      Not at Google. HR is overrun with SJWs.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      I guess they balance out all the recruiter bros.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Groupon Ufmz68
      It's bad for all males I guess more so if you are white
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Blue Origin / Other
      M245

      Blue OriginOther

      PRE
      Boeing
      M245more
      Not at Boeing, lol! So many ladies I know left Boeing because sexual harassment is handled so poorly there.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Intel sillycon
      google, good luck with our former HR lead
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Adobe RSPW64
    HR is there to protect the company, not you, never forget it
    Aug 30, 20170
  • New / Other
    MachoMan

    NewOther

    PRE
    Microsoft
    BIO
    Security guy
    MachoManmore
    every public company has an anonymous ethics hotline i would try that
    Aug 30, 201710
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      Yep this is the right answer. You can use a burner if you're super paranoid.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft BobbaFett
      Super paranoid would use a burner from a non-related location so that the burner doesn't call from your regular tower
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      Yea if you live in BFE. If you live in say, Redmond, you'll be covered with just a burner.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Amdocs / Engwaitwut?
      Lol, good luck.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft M$FTEE
      Anonymous ethics is not useful unless you are complaining about another team. People here are smart enough to figure out who complained
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      Yea, use common sense. If you on a team of 3 and complain about your team, it lowers your anonymity. That goes with any anonymous survey or questionnaire.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Ha ha ha RIP for those in startups.

      Actually, we have an anonymous comment box to submit things to and I use that.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Accenture / ProductAgileguy
      It can be worse, the person you complain will assume who called and treat the suspect as guilty.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Facebook UEyT82
      That hotline worked super well for anyone at Wells Fargo
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Microsoft
      ygwyg

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Amazon
      ygwygmore
      A lot of companies route ethics lines to HR. Some third party phone jockey takes the call and writes down the complaint, but it just goes to HR anyway. Waste of time.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Wipro / Product
    GhRa85

    WiproProduct

    PRE
    IBM, CA Technologies
    GhRa85more
    HR function is an Additional cost to Technology companies.Should be automated.Zero fucks given
    Aug 30, 20173
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      Yeah, who's building an HRBot? It should be a thing. HRaaS.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • LinkedIn / EngGill Bates
      Christ no. I worked at a company that outsourced HR and payroll. Let's put it this way, I'd rather run Windows ME as a main operating system than deal with this clusterfuck again.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft xHKC12
      Perfect name. I'm pretty sure you didn't intend it, but HRaaS is also Harass. Clever!
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Qumulo / Sales
    Milhouse03

    QumuloSales

    PRE
    quantum, zones
    BIO
    Developing a team of inside sales people to sell data aware storage.
    Milhouse03more
    HR at my company is amazing, borderline life coach.

    People should focus on exceptional culture and look for smaller companies working on interesting problems.
    Aug 30, 20176
    • Qumulo / Sales
      Milhouse03

      QumuloSales

      PRE
      quantum, zones
      BIO
      Developing a team of inside sales people to sell data aware storage.
      Milhouse03more
      Sounds like GitHub had a culture issues and a terrible HR person.

      Exceptional Culture isn't about being touchy feely, sometimes it's the opposite and about doing the hard right thing.

      I dismissed it too until my last 3yrs with Qumulo. Culture, problems you solve and how you grow should trump paychecks and stock options.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      Thank you. For now on I will assume HR is lying when they tell me anything is confidential. Put it in writing or go back to your desk, HR people!!!
      Aug 30, 2017
    • LinkedIn / EngGill Bates
      Remember, some jobs have a client attorney or patient doctor relationship and legal expectation of confidentiality. There's no such thing for HR.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      Yeah. I know a lot of people who went into HR for the right reasons. However, their job description is basically a company defendent lawyer, just without a law degree. And to think that employees seek them out and handover their evidence to them...
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Databricks / Eng
      datadicks

      DatabricksEng

      BIO
      I suck
      datadicksmore
      OP
      Did they life coach you into being happy about no raises for years?
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Qumulo / Sales
      Milhouse03

      QumuloSales

      PRE
      quantum, zones
      BIO
      Developing a team of inside sales people to sell data aware storage.
      Milhouse03more
      Three raises in three years. Perfectly happy.
      Sep 3, 2017
  • New / Engqqqp
    The HR department is the main reason I'm looking for a new job ๐Ÿ™„
    Aug 30, 20176
    • Amazon sub line
      You are going to find the exact same thing anywhere that has an HR department.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft HEjt51
      So retire๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Zenefits menH12
      Not true.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • LinkedIn bxWD78
      Really, what the f did u do to deserve that
      Aug 30, 2017
    • What happened
      Aug 31, 2017
    • New / Engqqqp
      Well I'm pretty sure the head of the HR department is having an affair with my boss. And I'm SDE for internal employees and she basically gets whatever she wants and will change it on you once you finish. And she's just a HUGE bitch.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Amazon mbsB75
    After contacting HR recently for an issue I felt was serious and being treated like I was insane I will never go to HR for another issue again. There was a possibility of danger in the workplace from someone who was clearly unstable and they brushed it off as the guy was just quirky.
    Aug 30, 20178
    • Pure Storage / OpsJR3573
      Wow!! That is amazing. If anything ever got worse, HR would be to blame since you DID try and address he issue. So amazing. Maybe you went to the wrong person? I guess JJ really has done nothing....
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      Hr at Amazon is a joke. Ever heard of a pre-PIP? They exist and they're super illegal, but they do it anyway.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      To OP: Document, document, document.

      And dare I ask, but what's s pre-PIP?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      A pip is a performance improvement plan, but it has been used as documentation to fire someone at Amazon, no matter if they improve or not. A pre-PIP is a secret list of people that hr decides to want to fire(could be a number of reasons why), but haven't enacted the process of a pip.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      Oh, right. A hit list. Got it. I'm familiar with PIP, just not a pre-PIP.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • FastSpring / Eng
      MortyPythn

      FastSpringEng

      PRE
      Amazon, Motorola
      BIO
      Full stack of despair
      MortyPythnmore
      I was on the pre Pip for sure - after 3 years of exceeds expectations and strong reviews at Amazon - they decided to give me a PIP for insubordination because I "disagreed before committing" for running some silly query. I took the severance and ran but ensured my last vest was complete.

      Amazon is the absolute worst HR and this site has an entire section documenting it. https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/

      If the pre pip is discovered and Amazon gets sued - just want Amazon HR to suffer.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      It already was discovered and they were sued. But days later they kept doing it.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Nintendo JollyRodgr
      So... Sue them again?
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Microsoft / EngTrotwood
    This is why blind exists. Uber got royally fked when one of their employees went on blind and posted that scathing diatribe about the culture (they lost their CEO). Blind is the social media equivalent of "punative damages" for companies that lack proper feedback mechanisms for improving their culture in important ways that negatively affect / harm their employees. You get a lot of whining with that too of course, but you also get the important things that need to be fixed and communicated to the masses. So the answer of what to do when you encounter a shitty culture or bad management is you should post on blind and get people's advice, get the information out, just like this. This site is rateyourprofessor.com meets LinkedIn.
    Aug 30, 20175
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      She didn't use Blind. She did it out in the open on her blog
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Ericsson watashiwa1
      This is a perfect place for people to whine and complain...love it!
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngTrotwood
      She did use Blind, I read it in her own words here when it broke out, and not soon after I read the real article. I'm not sure which came first, but also not sure why someone would post publicly and then anonymously (instead of the other way around).
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      Unless it wasn't her that posted it on Blind and it was just someone copying her article to Blind. How would you know when its anonymous?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngTrotwood
      Very true, could have been anyone
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Glassdoor kslcnen
    HR is there so that the company doesn't get sued. They do shit for us. Fucking dbags HR
    Aug 30, 20174
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      That's not completely true. They are great at answering questions about benefits.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Oracle / Product
      TKSHUDGO

      OracleProduct

      PRE
      IBM
      BIO
      Lead, follow or get out of my way.
      TKSHUDGOmore
      No not really even good at that.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • My HR had no idea how commuter benefits worked lol
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      We have a separate phone line you can call for questions, hr just onboards people and does their cop duties
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Google / Engdgrvdv
    I have serious doubts about whether Uber was anywhere bad as Susan Fowler depicted.
    Aug 31, 201710
    • LinkedIn
      gaijin1

      LinkedIn

      PRE
      Amazon, Microsoft
      gaijin1more
      Publicity for her upcoming book - just because its cynical doesnt make it false
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Microsoft Favabean
      You probably aren't a female engineer. I don't doubt her story at all,
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / Engdgrvdv
      I've been doing this for twenty years. I've not seen one instance of a woman being treated unfairly.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Ericsson watashiwa1
      And do you also think Kleiner Perkin wasn't as bad as Ellen Pao is insinuating? https://www.thecut.com/2017/08/ellen-pao-silicon-valley-sexism-reset-excerpt.html

      Bro - the valley is full of Roger Ailes of the tech world...and your HR is shitty because these guys hire HR and lawyers to protect themselves. Go work in some good companies and see the difference....
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / Engdgrvdv
      Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Pao lost her case fair and square and whines about it to this day. Have you read anything about the madness afflicting colleges? The same thing is happening to tech. EVERYTHING is identity. Nothing is just an interpersonal issue.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / Eng
      PretireGgl

      GoogleEng

      BIO
      I joined in 2004 and plan to retire 2020
      PretireGglmore
      Pao lost her case to a twelve persons jury, six are women.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / Engdgrvdv
      So? She had a fair trial by a jury of her peers. She presented her case and it wasn't strong enough. Plenty of other plaintiffs in similar situations with similar juries have won. She lost fair and square.

      A trial by a jury of one's peers is how we resolve disputes. She lost. Do you not think men (or whatever we're calling ~women these days) can be fair jurors?
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / Engdgrvdv
      How dare we not listen and believe
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Google / EngMwBW01
      No progress is being made; stop calling yourselves progressives.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Oracle / Product
      TKSHUDGO

      OracleProduct

      PRE
      IBM
      BIO
      Lead, follow or get out of my way.
      TKSHUDGOmore
      Ah beans, the magical food - the more you eat, the more you toot.

      Back to HR thread...

      How many HR folks does it take to fix your office light bulb?

      Answer: 20. One to put your call on hold another to tell your boss of your electricity overuse and 18 to travel to a conference to study about light bulbs.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Microsoft kohW36
    Read Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro- she lays it all out for you
    Aug 30, 20177
    • Microsoft tDrK62
      Did it help?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      Yes
      Aug 30, 2017
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      It's the fucking bible of the working world.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft asei16
      THIS
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Union Bank / EngNyanCoin
      Asking my local library to add it to their collection.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      Lol
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Amazon oAxV45
      I found this book in one of the copy rooms at Amazon and it is excellent. I would highly recommend it as well.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • eBay
    Woodoo

    eBay

    PRE
    Instacart, Spotify
    Woodoomore
    HR is always on the side of whoever has the power and/or higher paycheck....hrbp concept is a joke. Get rid of them....
    Aug 30, 20174
    • NewRelic / Other
      LOGOBR

      NewRelicOther

      PRE
      Oracle
      BIO
      Tech finance w/ FP&A background
      LOGOBRmore
      My HRBP won't even connect with me on LinkedIn
      Aug 30, 2017
    • eBay
      Woodoo

      eBay

      PRE
      Instacart, Spotify
      Woodoomore
      Lol why even try adding them? ๐Ÿ˜‚
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft TangoCharl
      Is she hot ? Why else would you add them.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Stitch Fix / Other
      mollyc

      Stitch FixOther

      PRE
      Amazon, Apple, Stitch Fix
      BIO
      Ops/HR experience in tech. East Coast based.
      mollycmore
      This comment about her being hot is probably why she doesn't connect with people...
      Dec 8, 2017
  • Microsoft tDrK62
    You can blog - see what Susan fielder achieved.
    Aug 30, 20172
    • Microsoft Richard pi
      It's Susan Fowler...and she did it at great risk to her reputation. Good on her for speaking out though.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Microsoft tDrK62
      Autocorrect
      Sep 1, 2017
  • Oracle yyRk36
    HR are a bunch of paid good for nothing folks who like to clean the crap of the executives and suck up to them. They have absolutely no power to do anything.
    Aug 30, 20172
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      Are they even paid good?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • VMware yvJS68
      For what they do, which is to add zero value and often subtract value, they are paid well.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Worldpay / OtherCYGL68
    Lol! HR solely exists to minimize risk for the company and Exec suite. In my experience HR is the most gossiping, inappropriate and petty work group. Do not ever trust your HR group as they will leave you out to dry.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • T-Mobile trpn73
    I personally feel that people who could not get into anything else more respectable get into HR.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Illumina francis_d
    The job of Human Resources is not to protect you from the company or the other employees, its job is to protect the company from you.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Microsoft / EngTrotwood
    HR being such a shit show is why Laszlo left Google to start Humu. Each year he was there Google was #1 company to work for. Not even 1 year after he leaves and the whole James Damore (or whatever his name was) a scandle broke out. My money is on his company becoming the AWS or Zenefits (minus the stairwell sex) of HR outsourcing, for companies that actually care about "people operations". Bad industry practices and terrible, low bar HR hires are ruining what could otherwise be great companies.
    Aug 30, 201713
    • Microsoft / EngTrotwood
      The bar is quite low as it is, but actually yes. It was number one company to work for coincidently the same ten years he was there, and it wasn't before. A lot of factors there, but you can get a feel for his data driven leadership style in Work Rules. It's the same kind of data driven culture I found at Amazon, for the most part, but never thought I'd observe it in a department like HR. Engineering yes, business yes, HR no.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab inDv67
      Damore was hired under Laszlo standards.
      Sep 12, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngDoraSpenlo
      I think op is advocating that as not a bad thing and his removal as a bad thing that may not have happened under Laszlo's standards (implying it may have been better to simply disprove him with data, debate, and managing him out rather than making him a a martyr to the right and allowing Google to seem like it is no longer a free refuge of thought--not that it ever was really, but the allure for many was there).
      Sep 12, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab inDv67
      Cmon, guys, you don't really believe it.
      Lazlo would've done it differently and with way less noise, but Damore would've been fired anyway.
      Remember girl who initiated Google salary spreadsheet and figured women and non-white employees are paid less in Google. She was fired under Lazlo watch.
      The thing with Damore was that if he'd stay company could get a class lawsuit from women felt harassed by his manifesto.
      Sep 12, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngDoraSpenlo
      You mean Erica Baker? Can you post a link that shows she got fired? She left for slack and before that they declined peer bonuses she was awarded for the spreadsheet, but I don't see where she got fired, and I checked many articles.
      Sep 12, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab Hbzr45
      They couldn't fire her as that would've been retaliation. However, she was pushed out of a company, her manager found a way to get revenge. Which is a common tactic experienced HR uses. If they fired her they'd pay $2-3 mil. So they just made her life miserable enough.
      Sep 13, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngDoraSpenlo
      So they quietly managed her out, leaving her with a good story to tell, her dignity not destroyed, and the ability to easily move to another firm. For James Demore they essentially labeled him a nazi and fired him in a notorious public display that will make it nearly impossible for him to have the same career.
      They should have simply treated him like they treated her and managed him out quietly. It would have been fair. What happened to "Don't be evil?". It goes both ways.
      The result was even more Googlers are leaking information now (like those in the town halls who submitted their questions ahead of time about this and got leaked, exposing them to internet doxing) as a way of evening the scores.
      It sounds as if they've accidentally declared an ideological war on their own employees by pretending as though all those people who worked there who sympathized with Demore's situation or even supported him, whether naively or symbolically, or both, didn't even exist.
      Sep 13, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab Hbzr45
      Money happened. By quietly pushing Erica out, they avoid losing millions on retaliation lawsuit. By firing Damore with nazi label they avoid losing millions on class action lawsuit about hostile work environment.
      Sep 14, 2017
    • Kaspersky Lab Hbzr45
      With their size class action lawsuit from Damore women peers could easily cost them like hundred millions, depending on judge mood.
      Sep 14, 2017
    • Microsoft / EngDoraSpenlo
      Good point, likely the reason.
      Sep 14, 2017
  • GoDaddy KVH
    So. . . This is my first blind comment. Please take a look: https://www.kateevanhorn.com/2017/06/youre-wrong-about-hr/
    Aug 30, 20177
    • GoDaddy KVH
      If you're working at a company that doesn't get it, please join us at GoDaddy
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Tatcha / OpsPitchSl
      GoDaddy's people & HR team is ๐Ÿ™Œ๐Ÿผ since Blake Irving had joined.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • What companies actually do this though... More of a risk than benefit.

      "should" != is
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Microsoft PPLM21
      This article simultaneously says "HR exists to the protect the company" and "please come talk to HR!" Uhhhh, no thanks.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Databricks / Eng
      datadicks

      DatabricksEng

      BIO
      I suck
      datadicksmore
      OP
      Stfu HR at GoDaddy. Your company has naked girls on all the ads.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Amazon cansado
      So? Sex sells, stupid.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • New / MgmtBut..Why?
      HR is there to protect the company. Which means that if someone is treating you unfairly, HR is there to remedy that through dealing with the person treating you that way. It does not mean they will do whatever it is you think is best, they have to follow the law just like everyone else.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • New / OtherzsFw05
    I can assure you that not all companies are like that. Not even all tech company HR departments are like that. At our company, HR is thanked so much for all the work they do. They keep confidential matters confidential and they help workers through tough work problems. They are there to help managers do better, help workers navigate hard situations and keep the company humming. I'm very sad that so many people work for companies where HR is so terrible and is not an advocate.
    Aug 30, 20172
  • eBay / OtherOhyeah!
    Who do you call if your HR manager is harassing you?
    Aug 30, 20171
  • Accenture / Eng
    ar77598

    AccentureEng

    PRE
    Infosys
    ar77598more
    When companies are big, HR is basically like a helpdesk, this is why there are intranet sites and hotlines to report legal violations, harrasment, discrimination and for whistleblowing there are external websites.

    If you are in a big company don't go to HR to escalate these issues, use the hotlines and sites.

    At least at my company the process is clearly outlined.

    Now also be mature: not always what you think is a big deal objectively is. At those hotlines and sites they will discretely investigate the matter, separately interview the accused part trying not to disclose they were accused and eventually either bring you and the accused part together to settle or take the proper corrective action and then inform you.

    HR here is for other stuff like compensation and staffing and such...
    Aug 30, 20171
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      HR will just protect the manager and the company. If you have a grievance against your manager, HR will take the minimum legal measures of conflict resolution so they have defensibility. If you have a complaint about sexual harassment, HR will come to the rescue by asking questions that will determine whether you have a court case or not before deciding to take action.

      Step #1 with dealing with HR is making sure you have a legally justifiable or truly damaging PR story.

      Step #2 is recording instances and evidence

      Step #3 is contacting HR with more power than they have in the situation.

      If you don't have steps 1 and 2, you're better off never meeting anyone in HR in a work situation.

      Not sure if this holds true everywhere but it certainly was in all my previous companies, so I treat it as fact
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Amazon oncall
    Toby is in HR, which means Toby works for corporate, which means Toby is not part of our family.
    Aug 30, 20171
    • Eigen / Eng
      chancellor

      EigenEng

      PRE
      Nokia
      chancellormore
      ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Facebook / Ops
    Covfefe.AF

    FacebookOps

    PRE
    albertsons
    Covfefe.AFmore
    HR isn't there to help you, they're there to ensure the company doesn't get sued by you.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Amazon IrKK22
    And Santa is not real. Do you have any new piece of information?
    Aug 30, 20176
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      LIES! YES HE IS! It says so on my Christmas presents.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Amazon IrKK22
      Mine just say my name. Do yours say Santa is real?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Boeing / Eng
      RallosZek

      BoeingEng

      BIO
      I've been awakened by his noodly appendage. Join Pastafarianism today!
      RallosZekmore
      Why else would it say "From: Santa"? Derrr. This guy!
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Amazon IrKK22
      So it does not say he's real...
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Twitch EPBQ13
      How could I get a present from someone who isn't real? Idiot.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Blizzard
      weebtrash

      Blizzard

      BIO
      trash human ๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘Œโœ”๏ธโœ”๏ธ
      weebtrashmore
      Dude what the fuck, spoilers
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Microsoft bassdrum
    HR will fire you before they help you
    Aug 30, 20172
    • New / Eng
      XDFJ37

      NewEng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      XDFJ37more
      HR's primary responsibility is to protect the company.
      Nov 10, 2017
    • Yep thats apparent by all the assholes they have let stay for years even with pending lawsuits, harrassment claims, suicides, sex scandals...
      Nov 10, 2017
  • Google xyzabcdef
    Actually forget about HR and additionally complaining others team members up management chain especially more senior ones. It always backfired me even though I know I was being wrongly treated by seniors. Best give papers and join new group or company.
    Aug 30, 20172
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Ericsson watashiwa1
      The HR I have seen is good and balanced employee advocacy (that's U) with policies/culture/management - unfortunately I have not seen good HR in tech companies. That doesn't mean that HR is shit...it just means you have had bad experience
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Medallia / Engcodemenot
    HR existis for the sole purpose of covering your company's ass.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Tatcha / OpsPitchSl
    This type of things always makes me so fucking angry. Any HR that doesn't tie the success of its talent to the success of the company (aka, using the phrase Human Resources to speak to optimizing the major asset of people to the business) is not a true HR person and probably shouldn't be doing what they do. Good HR isn't stodgy or fluffy. Good HR hires good people and utilizes them to their best potential until they need a better opportunity. I'm sorry most people don't have good HR. But! Thankfully, There are many of us that are good and want the best for people and the business and are also available for consulting, lol.
    Aug 30, 20173
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Am1Evil

      MicrosoftEng

      BIO
      Sinful birth under the cross
      Am1Evilmore
      It's just like with any service... Doctors, lawyers, HR... Hard to find the good ones, and the good ones are the only ones that matter.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Zulily VTfu07
      Really? You're going with No true Scotsman?
      Sep 3, 2017
    • Tatcha / OpsPitchSl
      Eh. More like I recognize that there are people who are good at their job and there are people who are not. Unfortunately, I've met far too many people who fell into HR because they thought it'd be easy or like playing politics. It's more that I think that, sadly, there are lots of people in HR that don't actually like working with people. Forgive the wording, I probably should have said "talented" or "high performing" instead of "true."
      Sep 4, 2017
  • Kaiser Permanente eCSg78
    It is quite said, people turn to HR as last resort and only find contempt and betray evidenced by this thread. How many countless people have suffered and will suffer. Only if there is some corporate transparency and healthy culture moving to root out the poor and pathic management practice so prevalent in the tech industry. If VCs and share holders would just not tolerate bad leadership and unethical practices.
    Aug 30, 20171
    • Workday / OtherxNZ1Lp
      Companies start because of profit potential, not because of how well they treat employees. HR betraying employees is here to stay. Hopefully we learn that as employees
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Google important
    Fuck you HR!
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Microsoft Yokozune
    Nothing new here
    Aug 30, 20170
  • I literally sat back and watched a friend committ suicide, women being sexually harassed, people being man handled, abusive speech, humiliated, fired, verbally abused, a person injured so bad on the job she could not work for 5 years, yet Microsoft fired her, all because of ONE manager. One manager that people went to HR about for years...and HR did NOTHING about it, except keep promoting that ass hole and firing anyone who complained about him....fuck that!
    Sep 2, 20177
    • Databricks / Eng
      datadicks

      DatabricksEng

      BIO
      I suck
      datadicksmore
      OP
      Thats so fucked up. Blogpost!
      Sep 2, 2017
    • Yep it's fucked up and MS does not give a shit
      Sep 3, 2017
    • LinkedIn Dr Nefario
      Or...you are emotionally operating without all the data...typical.

      I've had a couple of bad managers over the years. If I decided things were in a rut, I just moved teams or companies. Each time I moved I also made more money and equity: lemons -> lemonade.

      If things are so "bad" for you then why don't you own it and move on to another team etc.?
      Sep 3, 2017
    • Glad you thought the conversation or the decision to "just move", was so easy. This manager did everything in his power to tie the hands of his employees so he could abuse them and then make it so that they could not move teams. Could they quit, sure but why should they have to give up their careers or dream job just because one prick is being protected by the corporation? The decisions are not always as easy as typing a response behind a keyboard. Real lives and real families and futures were involved.
      Sep 3, 2017
    • LinkedIn Dr Nefario
      @Tipit frankly I don't believe your tale of woe as basically you're describing a torture dungeon. But I do believe that you're deeply unhappy and I offer this post respectfully to you based upon my personal experience. Good luck:

      It's too over the top and as such sorta makes you bleed credibility. I have a relative that sounds like you. They hated their job and made it sound like a North Korean gulag. So he stayed until they whacked him after 5 years of his unremittingly dark sniveling. Then when he was unemployed he found new things to complain about. Lots of time for dark FB posts but oddly enough no effort to stop being a victim or making any significant personal changes.

      The other thing is you are acting as someone who takes no personal responsibility whatsoever and is completely helpless. Yes it's as easy as typing on the keyboard.

      As for it being hard to make a change...The hard part for you will be jettisoning all your drama and owning your own life. As for getting entangled in other co-workers dreams or whatever there is very little you can do. If you want to help them then tell them what I'm telling you. Specifically cut out the over the top rhetoric and own your own choices: stay, leave or find a way to align your own self improvement goals with business goals of your team and business unit.
      Sep 3, 2017
    • Wow over the top rhetoric...oh you mean the facts...gee sorry to hurt your sensitive white washed feelings....but facts are facts do your research you will find if. Or dont, either way i would love for you to fuck yourself...
      Sep 3, 2017
    • New cdsks
      These a-hole "managers" have arrived at AWS and are thriving. They do exist.
      Sep 25, 2017
  • Microsoft ULGi80
    of course not. the role of hr is to fill the recs and protect the company Against lawsuits. your company will never show any compassion towards you. your manager might, but not hr
    Aug 30, 20171
    • Best Buy / OpsToaf
      Hr and talent acquisition are separate. Especially at Microsoft.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Google Sjxc66
    I'm not female. I don't doubt Fowler's depiction.
    Aug 31, 20170
  • AppDynamics fourty2
    HR exists to protect the company, not the employees.
    Aug 30, 20170
  • Bungie QoEs85
    Our HR is pretty decent. They have been good mediators on a number of occasions. But you are always better off trying to talk it out first before going nuclear.
    Aug 30, 20175
    • Yelp TsCt00
      Is this just till September 6th?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Bungie QoEs85
      Lol no. Honestly, our HR tries hard. They are (so far) aligned with the culture and not just a legal function. If you are a dumb shit all bets are off tho :)
      Aug 30, 2017
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      What's September 6, besides next Wednesday?
      Aug 30, 2017
    • ^ also wondering
      Aug 31, 2017
    • Bungie QoEs85
      Significant product launch. But I can't see what that would have to do with any change in HRs performance.
      Aug 31, 2017
  • New cMdF63
    What if I told you half of what HR gets a bad rep for is doing what your hiring managers want us to do while maintaining the facade of the "nice guy". HR doesn't have independent authority. Employees typically don't know the number of private conversations HR has with managers or how many times we've stopped them from firing your ass for some illegal or bullshit reason.
    Sep 2, 20173
    • New cMdF63
      *so they can maintain the facade of the nice guy is more accurate. Seriously, a lot of hiring managers, especially in tech, are afraid to have tough conversations with their employees. HR is unaware of what these issues are until they are bought to us by the manager.
      Sep 2, 2017
    • Microsoft ULGi80
      and how many time has hr fired a manager because they were unfair to their employees?
      Sep 2, 2017
    • New cMdF63
      Ultimately, you should realize that HR doesn't have the ability to just terminate someone independent of a conversation that involves other people, namely the individual's supervisor. We are the often times the messenger in situations that are absolutely "not our call". Getting over the idea that HR has any measurable impact concerning who stays or goes seems to be a concept that a lot of employees struggle with.

      As for your actual question, yes, there are plenty of managers out there who have been terminated for their lack of team skills. I've personally seen VPs be let go for not demonstrating effective leadership skills or causing general employee dissatisfaction. If you have a good executive team they'll pay attention to this stuff. If your executive team doesn't give a damn then they won't. HR can try to advise them to care. HRs opinion though, may or may not be considered.
      Sep 2, 2017
  • Eigen / Eng
    chancellor

    EigenEng

    PRE
    Nokia
    chancellormore
    HR IS A SNAKE ๐Ÿ
    Aug 31, 20172
  • Ericsson watashiwa1
    There are good managers and bad managers, good engineers and bad engineers, good HR and bad HR...your experience was with bad managers compounded by bad HR...who were probably hired by bad managers in the first place...I have worked in places where HR is good - they coach, maintain confidentiality, hold managers accountable...but then when I look at what's happening in the valley, I am not surprised with your experiences
    Aug 30, 20171
    • Mozilla / Other
      fcbO85

      MozillaOther

      PRE
      Cisco
      fcbO85more
      Thiiiiiiiiiiiis!!!!
      Sep 9, 2017
  • Oracle / SalesICqm08
    Is "complaining to hr" equivalent to adult tattling? Additional context would be helpful here.
    Aug 30, 20171
    • HouseCanary rBqo26
      HR wants you to think it is. It's actually the equivalent of going to police affairs to complain about police brutality.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Blizzard
    weebtrash

    Blizzard

    BIO
    trash human ๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘ป๐Ÿ‘Œโœ”๏ธโœ”๏ธ
    weebtrashmore
    That's common sense. They're on the companies side, they pay them money.

    Only time going to HR can actually be good is if you're certain something somebody is doing will be cause for legal concern, or if somebody is poorly representing the company.
    Aug 30, 20171
    • ServiceNow SNowflak3
      And even that's not always true. I brought up the concern my coworker was committing time add fraud, and all HR did was call him directly to ask him about what I said. We were 2 ppl in a small office, obviously he knew it was me who brought up the concerns.

      No action taken against him other than no more WFH day on Friday. And so I left, it was gross watching him only work/at his desk 2 hours everyday- the other time hanging with the janitor downstairs smoking
      Aug 31, 2017

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