Paternity on PIP?

PayPal crumpets
Dec 17, 2018 188 Comments

Paternity while on Pip, possible? Put on pip while manager knows I'm expecting. Would concede my avail. Hrs went down a bit.
TC: 130k, Yoe: 2.5 years

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TOP 188 Comments
  • EMC dicpic
    You need to look after the child even while on PIP right?
    Dec 17, 2018 26
    • Homeaway C3P0-
      I agree PIPs are designed to create a paper trail so that you can fire someone without getting into legal hassles.

      Also, quite honestly, PIP should never come as a surprise to you. Your performance coupled with your relationship with your manager should be enough of an indication of where things are heading.

      If you are not self-aware of the fact that you may soon end up on PIP, you are in the wrong industry.

      I also agree that HR is for the benefit of the company and not the employee. They have helped design this process, why do you think they would help you beat it????
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Groupon GrpnDoom
      Agree that HR is for benefit of the company. Also tell your SO. All this talk about not stressing her out is just you not having the balls to go tell her.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • New vvnT76
      Interesting about all the HR hate. Last place I was at HR was the employee advocate, which helped prevent misunderstandings and lawsuits. Now, they were paid by the company, but would at least make sure you knew your options.
      You might read the employee manual and see what the rules are regarding response to medical leave.
      I think you should let your spouse know, even if you don't discuss it in depth. My relationship with my wife comes before my job, even if it meant I had to get a different one (note, zero immigration knowledge here).
      Dec 18, 2018
    • You tell the SO and you both could lose the baby. Yes women's bodies are wired NOT to stay pregnant under stress it's a survival reflex.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Airbnb bnbnbeyond
      ^ I’m sorry, but that really stupid. Women’s bodies aren’t wired to reject a nearly full term pregnancy at the prospect of dad losing his job. Have you ever talked to a woman before?
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Goodfulf- you are an idiot. That’s just how your mind was wired.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Tableau oCVF71
      That's in the first tri, Goodgulf. But blood pressure is important to monitor. A calm and honest adult conversation is not going to harm a near / at term baby.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Oath DNey44
      If am not too late I the discussion, and if crumpets has not shared it with his SO, I would suggest him to talk to his manager first and ask the term if it’s 60 or 90 days. If the delivery is before the end of his pip term, ask your manager to pause pip for whatever paternity leave days and then resume it post leave. Usually people on pip are not fired until the term ends. In this duration, start interviewing with other companies. In the worst case scenario, even in case of loss of job, you’ll get 60 days grace period. It’s absolutely not the best situation to be in, however even in this case if you keep your cool, you can safely get through this.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Nordstrom ssadab
      Good one DNey44. I see so much hate post against HR and so many different advice and scenarios; but in negative path. This will take his morale down and loose his confidence. I think, we should be suggesting him the positive ideas while keeping all the options for worst scenarios.

      OP - good luck and hopefully, you'll get over this soon.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Intuit FvXL15
      Find another job?
      Dec 21, 2018
  • New ladka
    Sorry to hear this. No one should have to choose between a newborn and the job.
    Dec 17, 2018 6
    • Facebook FbECS
      People have been choosing between newborn and job for thousands of years. I don't see that changing anytime soon
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Adobe bAdCloud
      Operative word is “should”
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Facebook FbECS
      Having a child is a big responsiblity. I don't think a person should be trying to technically hold two full-time jobs at once. Child comes first and if you have some remaining time then use that for work. If you can do both at the same time great. You are superman, else child should win.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon dotard
      Wut
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Capital One lbvX03
      Find out the root cause for it ...why he is putting you on pip..if you have that clear then work with him on a realistic plan to what are the criterias that will put you out of it. I would simply deal with it and face it. While you are stepping up your game at performance your manger should bw giving you an empatheric understanding that you had a baby..but it is part of life ...you gotta do good job in both...sleepless nights a bit..also you hve to do good for the baby rt?
      Dec 18, 2018
    • New ladka
      People have been working and having babies at the same time for thousands of years. It's laughable that to say you'd need to be a superman to do both.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Microsoft liwo
    Take paternity leave, leetcode get offer
    Dec 17, 2018 13
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Coolstarry- cool advice bro. DONT LISTEN TO THIS MISGUIDED FOOL. Most definitely tell your SO. What’s worse telling her now OR when you are out of job and have to explain you knew for months it was a possibility.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • iProspect Chara
      Definitely tell your significant other, to prepare to any outcome. Talk to your HR to know the options, see what they offer and what are you eligible for. Know your rights.

      If it is possible, start looking. I do believe that PiPs are designed to fail. It’s documented process to get you out in a hierarchy. I would show an effort, but do not overwork. I would start interviewing. Best of luck. It’s very tough situation.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Google ceng
      All the SOs and wives here furiously advising OP to not hide anything from their SO. ROFL 😂
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Ceng- I’m a dude and I have ton of respect for my partner. I would never not tell her about something that could have such major impact on our life.

      And you sound like an incel.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • @gogoduck why would you think an indian wife who is nurturing his child will not be mature enough to understand the situation? Stress afterwards would also affect baby, and might be more harmful, as she would be going through big changes in her life, body and mind herself. Ever heard of postpartum depression ?
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Google GoGoDuck
      I'd argue that the amount of stress is more or less propotional to time spend worrying about an issue. She'll be stressed out anyway after the baby is born until OP gets a new job, whether he tells her now or he tells her a few days after the baby is born.

      Telling her now would just add on to the amount of time she'll be stressed out about, with the potential to affect the health of the foetus. And if OP is the primary breadwinner, there is not much she'll be able to do except keep worrying about the possibility of having to uproot their lives and move back to India if OP doesn't find a new job in time.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Indeed blu
      Don't tell the wife. Even your wife will appreciate you that you didn't stress her out while being pregnant. Tell her later. Any wife will understand your situation and appreciate for handling the situation by yourself. Tell her after you land an offer, lower stress. DM me. We are hiring.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Google ceng
      ^ sexist and racist idiot pig spotted. Generalizes from one data point.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Indeed blu
      It is not about hiding, but sharing bad news at an appropriate moment later to reduce damage. If you think being stressful during pregnancy is fine, then there is nothing to argue.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • PayPal crumpets
    OP
    I meeting HR day after tomorrow to see my options but not sure of outcome. Read the reality of pip that is designed to fail.... but in want to give my 100%. But so many things going in my mind. Confidence is compromised, negativity taking over.
    Dec 17, 2018 11
    • PayPal crumpets
      OP
      Hoping that it works out but not sure how much they'll try to help....sorry becoming more negative rant on my posts. Obviously very stressed & out of confidence.
      Dec 17, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      Dont! HR is not your friend.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Google NotHimSelf
      Agree that HR are not your friends.but don't what?? Don't meet them?? He has to know what options they offer him
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Airbnb bnbnbeyond
      HR’s job is to protect the company. They are not your friend. Meet with them only to listen.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Dude, put in the time and effort. At least if you get let go you will know it wasn’t because you didn’t put in everything you had.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • PayPal crumpets
      OP
      Ofcourse putting efforts and more hours to get things done. Challenge is the confidence is taking a toll along with stress of finding job within 60 days to be in status, coping up with uncertainty of medical insurance etc...
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      True I mean more the time/effort into having stable job. Whether that means getting off the pip or getting a new job.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Capital One lbvX03
      Stay calm..you known in your heart that it is not rocket science...get your manager talk to you and ask him how and what will he suggest to get you out of this
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Nvidia Mag!c!an
      Why not look for another job ? Put all this effort and energy to interview.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Facebook BookEng
      Try getting another job ASAP. U don’t have to tell them about the child, at least that’s possible for fathers to do. You have 2 months on H1B to find a new job after u get fired. So u can start applying now when u can tell in the resume that u are currently employed.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Microsoft PopUpVideo
    You got some good advice to take the paternity leave. I think you should take paternity, especially if you think the pip is going to fail anyway. Use some of your leave time to interview and enjoy your new child.

    However, I disagree with all of the comments about lying to your wife. Treat her with dignity and respect her like a true partner. If you tell her what you are going through without whining or venting, then she will not be overstressed. Be calm and communicate. What will be stressful for her is if you suddenly have to tell her you are jobless out of nowhere, with no warning. She deserves the right to take this journey at your side and provide advice. It’s her advice you need, not ours. It will be a comfort to both of you.
    Dec 18, 2018 7
    • Amazon ly4307
      Spot on, tell your wife and make sure she knows that’s it’s not necessary for the both of you to stress. You have it covered. I’m really sorry this is happening to you. It’s a hard enough (yet amazing) time and this is not great timing.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Google NotHimSelf
      +1
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      +1
      Dec 18, 2018
    • +1 that’s what a grown man should do
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Cisco wSkX25
      +1
      Dec 18, 2018
    • iProspect Chara
      +1! Great advice
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Indeed blu
      Not when you have Visa issues and worried about moving back. If I were the wife I definitely want to know about this after delivery
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Intel Intelegacy
    Was the reason for pip political or performance related. If political don’t worry too much about it.
    Dec 17, 2018 7
    • PayPal crumpets
      OP
      Performance related as i was not able to put many hours but had all the conversations with my manager and she even mentioned she got my back and all.
      Dec 17, 2018
    • Intel Intelegacy
      This seems to be political. Managers would be always looking for scapegoats for their misdeeds. Try to get your parents support during this time so that you can put in some more time for work. There are few things which is beyond our power. Hopeful things turn positive for you!
      Dec 17, 2018
    • Facebook FbECS
      Doesn't sound political at all. The op just told you they haven't been putting in the necessary time
      Dec 18, 2018
    • West Corporation OxBL72
      What are the reasons you've not been able to put in many hours?
      Dec 18, 2018
    • New nfs
      Hmmm sounds to me like your manager isn't that experienced if she made this type of promise without knowing she could keep it.
      What's the reason for you not able to put in hours?
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon msfalg
      She’s got your back stabbed
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Didn’t know pip can be used for political reason. I got put on pip and I did felt like it’s a political issue
      Dec 18, 2018
  • VMware lRQQ72
    Why the fuck are you guys making it sound like this guy deserves a special treatment?! He did not perform, PIP is / will be in place. End of story. The fact he is on visa or his wife is expecting is completely irrelevant. He should have performed and he is not pregnant, do no protected class.
    All this scheming to prevent firing for cause is sick. This is why we have incompetent people that can't be replaced...
    Dec 18, 2018 9
    • Cruise Automation GMHonda
      It's clear that you never went through the pregnancy. We are humans and not 🤖's. Have some humanity. On average pregnancy comes one or twice in a 30+ years of career life time. If company/manager can't understand employees need for that few months and relax performance requirements, then I am sorry but that manager doesn't deserve to hold the managerial title.

      Of course all this applies to employee suffering with major terminal illness as well.

      In both cases, employee or/and their spouse are depends on employer to provide medical insurance as well so at least on humanitarian ground, I would expect employer to reduce performance requirements.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft dushbdnks
      They should fire this VMware guy. Must be a toxic colleague to work with. Empathy and understanding human dynamics are what makes great employees and it seems this guy not only doesn’t have it but promotes inhuman acts. Working with such an employee is a nightmare with unreadable code and my way is the only way type of mentality. Team will collapse and the company can perform better without this guy. Low performer contributes little but still better to have one than not. Toxic employees destroy the company and absolutely better to not have them.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • American Express egkwa
      Ummm... So he concedes that he deserves the PIP and no one in the thread is contesting that.
      He is asking for advice on how to manage it with the baby on the way.
      Unless you think successfully completing PIP is "scheming to prevent firing for cause", who said anything about preventing being fired?
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Cisco WhyEyeTEe
      Aye lavdu IRQQ72. Anyone that needs to be replaced is you. You are incompetent if you think work is all about slogging hard. It’s relationship, wlb, long term focus and plus work. I think you are only working and thinking that you are too significant. You are not unless you are Pat Gelsinger
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Symphony Hefeweizen
      @irqq72, not all PIPs are performance based. They are sometimes the facade for small workforce reductions.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • VMware lRQQ72
      Empathy has nothing to do with this. This guys admits he deserves a pip (kinda) and instead of facing it he is trying to use paternity to delay / prevent it...
      I have no problem stepping up and doing more when people get sick or need help, but they must perform at their best when not.
      We all get paid to produce value this guy does not. It is simple math. And this is why I know I am replaceable as is anyone, including Pat.
      And most of you are missing the fact he may not be able to take the paternity because child was not born yet. Thus my calling of the scheming here to prolong the time to deliver the PIP.
      And if you want to call measuring everyone equally, removing the dead wood and replacing with those that will do a great job, be my guest.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Cisco WhyEyeTEe
      ”measuring everyone equally” lol dude are you new to the industry. For this one paternity dude there will hundreds at PayPal getting paid in millions to put half the time this dude is putting in. When it comes to family matters even my worst manager on his worst day would support me irrespective of anything. I am dead sure you are right out of college, you know nothing “nada”
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Cisco WhyEyeTEe
      “And you Guys are missing the fact he may not be able to take” yada yada yada yapp yapp yapp oh totally fuck that piece of detail. Son this is an adult topic you are running around like a kid “look at this” “look at me”. Shusssh shut up
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Not all pips are the fault of the employee. What if the manager is green and failed to fight for or sell the employee's work to others? You really are naive.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • PayPal crumpets
    OP
    Thanks blinders, will explore Fmla and paternity options. Will update in few weeks where things stand.
    Btw: This is in merchant's org. and I'm a PM(should have told earlier).

    To protect my identity I can't reveal names or more information. Sorry.
    Dec 18, 2018 6
    • PayPal Pra1t
      Why PMs are being put on PIP ? Really shitty. Please check with the HR!!
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Airbnb bnbnbeyond
      Why do all these people think HR is their friend? HR signs off on the pip before they are given.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Turo Skkubfh
      This “us vs them” mentality is bullshit when it comes to HR. Yes, they are representatives of the business, but they aren’t some governing body that you can’t be transparent with in fear of being sanctioned. In fact, they can be strong advocates or consultants for you as well. In modern tech companies, there’s a reason that they are switching their name often from “HR” to “People Operations”.

      OP, I’d recommend using all resources you can in your situation.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Airbnb bnbnbeyond
      ^ Absolutely terrible advice. Once you’re on pip, HR’s job is to build a case against you. Every interaction you have will be used to build that case. Their job is to do as the business instructs and to derisk.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Turo Skkubfh
      It is not HR’s job to build a case against you - it’s your manager’s job to build a case against you. HR does not want you to be fired or let go - they merely act as the facilitator when a situation arises.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Cisco lkonks
      The general unwritten rule is if a person going on PIP is surprised, then the Mgr did not do their job correctly. Expectation is that there are at least 2 qtrs of time when concerns regarding Performance are raised with employee and usually recorded.
      My humble advise is a PIP is preceded by bad to no bonuses, RSUs etc along with explicit concerns which should get u to do whatever u need to do.
      Once a PIP is raised, a small .% still makes it but with the additional pressure & extra monitoring, it is usually a lost cause.
      Dec 21, 2018
  • Splunk bwpanke
    Interview and switch immediately.
    Dec 18, 2018 8
    • Facebook FbECS
      Not going to look good if he takes a new job and goes on paternity leave soon after.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      New folks do it all the time at Amazon. Don’t listen to this person.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Facebook FbECS
      I didn't say not to do it. I said at some places its rather bad because the team was counting on you. Lots of companies are resourced constrained and now you are holding up a headcount and work is not getting done. Amazon has infinite money and resources so please go to Amazon where whether you work or not is important to the success of the team.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Haha, infinite resources is definitely not the case.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Facebook FbECS
      Avoid startups and pre-ipo companies. Those companies need every butt in seat working
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      100% agree with that advice.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • iProspect Chara
      You can always negotiate it when will receive a new job offer. This is life. People negotiate starting dates, upcoming weddings and paternities.

      Start looking, but know your rights. Talk to HR and your manager so they are aware of a situation, if possible negotiate to extend PIP’s end date given your situation to win some time to secure a new job.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Pinterest SunnyW
      @FbECS is fb better than those startups?
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Amazon Proud_Dem
    You qualify for 12 weeks FMLA by law regardless of PIP. Even if it is your last day you can take FMLA and no one can stop you. Go to my leave and apply for FMLA (notify your OB about this situation) - OB’s office should support your request.
    Dec 17, 2018 3
    • Pure Storage orangeg769
      I’m not sure if this is true if you are on an H1B. Would be good to double check. Agree with the others, you’ve found yourself in a sticky situation. Above all else - your family and child are what is constant. Continue to try to do your best at work and communicate that to your manager and HR. Good luck.
      Dec 17, 2018
    • LinkedIn Kwofjrjw
      It's also unpaid leave.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Intel oESG42
      I think they can terminate while an employee is on fmla if they can prove that the employee was on track for termination prior to going on leave :(
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Cruise Automation GMHonda
    Fucking punish ur manager's name and team name in PayPal. Make sure ppl don't join his/her team ever.
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • New nfs
      That's both childish and will only hurt him in his work place
      Dec 18, 2018
    • PayPal fgh436
      Ppl can easily find him
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Cisco ciscorocks
    I would recommend taking the leave and still working for 2-3 hours every day whenever you can find time, probably that is the best way to show your manager that you are dedicated to the job.
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • Amazon ly4307
      Definitely not. You won’t be able to keep up and it will lead to additional actions being able to be taken on the PIP. Take the time off and use that 2-3 hours a day finding a new role. When managers are at PIP stage, they have made Up their minds already.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Cisco ciscorocks
      Well yes finding another job is definitely a good idea but finding another job with a new born is extremely difficult. I have successfully cleared PIP and it is definitely achievable
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Amazon ly4307
    I recommend taking the paternity and use that time to spend with your family and look for another role (at amazon and other places). It will push the pause button and allow a minute to breathe.
    Dec 18, 2018 4
    • Microsoft Bq5Rt1j
      Yeah after ensuring you can take th e leave just take it asap
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft Bq5Rt1j
      Good time to focus and regroup
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon BilboBroBa
      Best advice on here yet.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • PayPal crumpets
      OP
      Can't take paternity until child is born. Will hv to explore fmla option.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Intel Intelegacy
    It stresses out employees. They aren’t any good for company as well. If you putting someone under pip then make sure those who hired them are held accountable.
    Dec 17, 2018 1
    • New nfs
      Interviews are far from perfect, and definitely can't measure smth like OP not putting in hours if he chose to withhold that information or didn't knew about it.
      A pip is supposed to do 2 things :
      1. create a clear expectation on what an employee required to deliver and how the work place can assist with that.
      2. Make a paper trail incase things go wrong and the company needs to let go of that employee.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
    Shame of all those people who are supporting OP here without knowing entire picture...he might be in pain right now but on the serious note, how was his performance in last 6-9 months..until he is a victim of performance he deserves what he gets...

    He knew his spouse is pregnant. He should have kept balance between work and personal life.

    Companies are not supposed to run some charity...
    Dec 31, 2018 3
    • Microsoft trthhhheee
      Shame on people supporting OP? Do you know what goes on with OP? How do you know? We are all guessing yet you judged others should be ashamed and you are right. What if his manager was wrongfully placing PIP? He should keep balance? Does he have to abandon his pregnant wife? Are you a human? Why are we working? Honestly, you look like to have the third world mentality. Look at your messy comment with so many dot dot dots. Let’s keep US labor practice not fall to the level of third world.
      Dec 31, 2018
    • Amazon JSThanos
      I've worked at PayPal merchant org.. I worked my ass of for them and I was treated like dirt. TC was 89K with 0 stock&bonus even though I demonstrated ownership and fixed a live failing broken legacy service app by myself and became good with JS + React in 5 months. In the end i got forcefully re-orged when I asked about promotion.

      I have nothing but hate for this team. I give OP the benefit of the doubt and fully support him. He can contact me if he wants a referral to Amazon.
      Jan 1
    • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
      He is in this mess because of whom?

      One simple question which he did not respond so far.

      How was his performance in last 6-9 months?

      How was his performance before his wife was pregnant?

      Things don't change overnight. It's individual's behavior and responsibility towards work. When you are at job, you are suppose to work.
      Jan 1
  • Samsung usr777
    PIP means they want you out... my suggestion would be to consult a lawyer and make sure to document everything that happens... you should take FMLA and paternity not sure if you will get paternity but you will get FMLA 100%... And look for other opportunities... dont be afraid.. just dont loose your cool and use your right to take FMLA..
    Dec 26, 2018 1
    • BlackBerry GrumpYVet
      👆👆This is excellent advice and I second it
      Dec 26, 2018
  • Salesforce dzDN16
    Another option could be to postpone your paternity leave, work to get off the PIP, then take leave after.
    Dec 18, 2018 1
    • Amazon ly4307
      Reality is that with a new baby, you can’t put in 110% at the same time giving your wife and baby what they need. You will be tired.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Amazon Ahhh 😎
    I had a coworker in a similar situation at Amazon.

    DO NOT trust HR. They work for your manager, for the company not for you.

    Use your paternity leave as a chance to interview somewhere else.

    Your family and your own health come first.

    Some companies only care about the company’s profitability.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Freddie Mac gottageton
    Explore the legal angle once. Talk to an employment law attorney. PIP is different from layoff notice (which will soon come thru because PIP are designed to fail the employee and HR gets a paper trail for future legal ramifications).

    You dont need to worry. Tell your wife about the situation and let her know that you are trying your best for all options (fmla, postpone pip, job search etc.). Enjoy family time with your wife and be happy for to-be-expected kiddo. Jobs, H1 will come and go. Life doesnt stop here. Your manager does not control your life. Remember that.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Uber Bob14
    There is a lot going on so I’m sorry if I missed it somewhere but I work remote and the saving grace to that is everything is a conference call and can be recorded when needed. I would suggest arranging for all HR meetings to be recorded conf calls or be sure to take detailed notes on each in person meeting and send a follow up email with your notes asking for confirmation from your hrbp. It’s been noted many times that HR is not your friend and I think we all have sources that can confirm that. You gotta document everything if you ever think shits about to go sideways.
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Oracle aYBY68
    What is the reason for you to be in PIP?.Is it in your control to improve and deliver as part of the plan?.You seem to be running away rather than taking responsibility for a situation that you are also responsible for.Tell your manager you can’t afford to lose your job with a child on the way and you intend to do your best to rectify the situation and become a valuable employee to buy some time.Do your best to contribute ,but also look for another job.For your next job,don’t take people or any day,minute or hour you spend at work lightly.
    Dec 19, 2018 1
    • eBay gbhhb
      Are you OP's manager?
      Dec 19, 2018
  • PayPal crumpets
    OP
    Thanks for your inputs. Just want to reiterate that didnt mean to post this to gain sympathy points or trash my manager. Timing on pip can be argued either way...but more so wanted ideas and some confidence booster. Anywho, thanks again for your inputs and I'll try to keep calm, execute few things as suggested and hope things turn in my favor, Family > job. Will keep you all posted.
    Dec 18, 2018 1
    • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
      Do you mind talking about your performance in last 6 months and also if your manager gave you any hint or had any conversation about your performance with you before going ahead with PIP
      Dec 18, 2018
  • PayPal 10101011
    Op can you tell me which manager and organization are playing this?
    Dec 18, 2018 2
    • Google ceng
      He said it's the merchant's org and he's a PM.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Amazon JSThanos
      Merchant org is the shittiest org. All the good engineers left. They still use F0 tech? OP do what you need to do to GTFO of there.
      Jan 1
  • Birst jYbI71
    PIPs are targeted and political as it provides a means to terminate an employee that would be hesitant to apply for unemployment. I’ve seen rock star developers get PIP’ed because the org didn’t want to pay their above market salary and they didn’t want to pay severance. They usually find a job before the PIP runs it course. Good organizations try to course correct well before these are necessary.
    Dec 18, 2018 1
    • New nfs
      Companies spend loads of cash to attract talent and maintain it. Superstars aren't getting PIP because of their salaries. If you've seen a superstar get a PIP, smth might have happened, maybe around behavior rather then performance, or very leaninet previous managers or a new un experienced manager that doesn't.
      There could be many reasons, high salaries (at least in big companies are definitely aren't the case)
      Dec 18, 2018
  • BlackBerry WillMorris
    It is indeed unfortunate that you were put on a performance improvement plan. It is also unfortunate that the United States legal system does not adequately protect workers from being treated unfairly.

    Firing an employee on FMLA will look very bad for the company so they are unlikely to do that. I would take FMLA and search for a new job while on it.

    I’d also consult an employment attorney if I were you. Keep notes of who said what, when and where. If the employer discriminated against you and you fall into a protected class, employment attorneys will not hesitate to take up your case.

    You should tell your significant other and all the people who you are working with on projects including the managers and tell them that you need all the help you can get. Don’t hide it as you need support during this stressful period to get through it. Only confide in those who actually have your back.

    Don’t be afraid to tell people you are on a PIP. The company, HR and your manager can’t tell others that you are on a PIP. However you are not legally restrained from doing so even if they tell you otherwise.

    Good luck and get a job in another company ASAP
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Cisco WhyEyeTEe
    Also DONT TELL your wife. It’s not worth it
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Cisco WhyEyeTEe
    Okay .... now I read the whole thread. First off there was no need for Mr. Papa to not put in time. Assuming you had really genuine reasons to do it and now this situation has unfolded .. this is what I think you should do. 1. Extend out the PIP 2. Extend out the severance (get paid exit for a few months) 3. Hopefully this get you out till the baby is due 3. Get a doula 4. Time your h1b transfer to consultancies. It’s taking 3-4 months for transfer , in case you are fired join the consultancy on receipt. What this leaves is the eventual worst case of you are fired and H1b transfer is rejected but this all will take months to unfold. In general relax and this is a small hiccup, it’s only as serious as you want it to get. Best of luck with baby
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • New hdgbee7
    What is pip?
    Dec 18, 2018 5
    • Proofpoint Joker1🃏
      🤔
      Dec 18, 2018
    • New nfs
      Performance Improvement Plan
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Tableau oCVF71
      i.e. a HR papertrail for either improving or being fired
      Dec 18, 2018
    • 80-90% of the time the org has decided to fire you FOR CERTAIN and they are pretending yo give you a second chance to avoid a lawsuit.
      Dec 19, 2018
    • New nfs
      @goodgulf unless you are in hr or upper management, your numbers are wayyy off and you have no idea what you are talking about.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
    Keeping paternity thing aside, how's your performance? Do you deserve PIP?

    OP... How's your performance in last 6 months?

    Why blaming your manager for your bad performance
    Dec 18, 2018 4
    • New CYmw14
      That’s stupid and senseless to say. No decent manager puts someone on a pip during maternity or paternity leave. Legalities are way on the employees side.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
      Being a manager is not simple...you need to show output at your end as well.. I am super sure that manager must have given many hints before going ahead with it PIP....

      Either way, it is also important that know OPs performance in last 6 months and also if manager gave any sign of PIP...it's just a coincidence that OP is expecting now..
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft trthhhheee
      Just like there is a low performer in ICs. There is also a low performing manager who is not doing a good job managing people and simply trying to cover up his or her immaturity by blaming on someone. We don’t know if the manager has done it properly. Ideally, most of ICs should be coachable if manager is competent. Everybody has ups and downs. You gotta see the positive side in a person and encourage him properly. Tech managers are in general poor at managing people though.
      Dec 18, 2018
    • LeanTaaS ♥️ data
      In that case other engineers should also come forward from the same team if manager is not good..

      Only OP can comment on this now..
      Dec 18, 2018
  • PayPal crumpets
    OP
    Done something productive today though and updated my resume, reached out to few contacts and got leads. Hopefully, I should be able to get things in line and balancing all would sure be a challenge. Pip performance and delivery, searching new gig, new born soon & prepping for that with no in-laws.
    Dec 18, 2018 3
    • PayPal Pra1t
      All the best man!!
      Dec 18, 2018
    • Microsoft Shebdhu
      Stay strong man!! You can do it..
      Dec 19, 2018
    • Indeed blu
      All the best OP.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Is it just me or does anybody else here do not understand what pip is outside python?
    Dec 19, 2018 1
    • Oracle aYBY68
      Just you - Performance Improvement Plan...in other words you get very close to the exit door.
      Dec 19, 2018
  • Walmart.com ToKL28
    Your manager is a deep 💩. Try to change teams.
    Dec 18, 2018 1
    • PayPal crumpets
      OP
      Can't if on pip
      Dec 18, 2018
  • Intuit FvXL15
    Find another job?
    Dec 21, 2018 0
  • Oracle Sixaosns
    Talk to HR about it - just request the paternity leave. I’ve seen people take a leave of absence when they were on a PIP. When they come back the PIP still applies.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • eBay gbhhb
    It's morally wrong, if not legally. How can you stress the family in such critical times? I can understand if the company is going bankrupt and have no choice, but PayPal is actually doing pretty good. I imagine it will be a PR disaster for PayPal if you expose it to the media.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Micron wtinfhayt
    Just find a new job ASAP, you have no other choice my friend
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Pinterest Dhdjdnnfux
    If the manager is understanding, instead of working on the pip take the time to find a new job. If they decided to let you go, paternity is off the table usually since it needs manager approval. Even if you get paternity, look for a job during that time.

    If the kid is not born yet, you can ask for paternity in the new place and they will usually allow it.

    Having a kid is already stressful, even if you stay the work will make you even more stressed later. Just leave now no matter how hard it is. It will be even more stressful later.
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Oracle BjGO24
    Don’t worry about it. Manager is brainless. Unless you totally flake you are fine.
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Chewy TarH67
    You don't necessarily know the circumstances. Neither do I.
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Amazon ly4307
    PS. You can call the amazon employee support line and ask all of these questions related to FMLA and H1B. They are still open!
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • LinkedIn peepl
    Dick move.
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • Lending Club Sp500Cry:(
    Bring the in-laws
    Dec 18, 2018 0
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google ceng
      Don't generalize. There are bad apples everywhere
      Dec 18, 2018
    • PayPal fgh436
      PayPal is really generous with PIP.. there r not many pips handed out like FB and others.
      Dec 18, 2018
  • PayPal 10101011
    Sorry to hear. I heard PayPal is generous with employees. Do pip plans are designed to fail?
    Dec 17, 2018 1
  • Amazon SDEBeast
    Does PayPal actually PIP? I thought they have "role elimination" when doing re-orgs?
    Dec 29, 2018 0
  • Microsoft SenoritaWE
    When is your wife due?
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Amazon sanon
    Paternity leave is only available if you are not in the Dev List. They are not required to tell you if you are on the Dev list. But when you apply for paternity leave it will either be approved or denied.

    FMLA is always available.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Twitter Oomnj
    The the paternity leave - use the last two weeks of it to find a new job. Win win
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Uber Fastwave
    Yes, take it! Who cares and if you do now, after paternity, guessing you’ll care a whole lot less.
    Dec 19, 2018 0
  • Amazon IBCv80
    Hi, I have been in your exactly same situation, before signing to enter the pip. Just take your Paternity for 3 months, use this 3 months to take care of family and new job. Talk to HR and maybe senior/director to make sure your employee status is guaranteed during those 3 months.
    Dec 19, 2018 0

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