Push for Diversity hire, lowering the bar?

Bloomberg ddrqs
Sep 27 86 Comments

I do recruiting for my company, and felt the bias towards hiring diversity candidates. We were "hinted" that we should strive to hire diversity candidates, but i never thought this would mean lowering the bar.

All my advances to go out of the comfort zone of the candidates were cut-short. Hell, i was not even allowed to followup on the things candidates just mentioned, which i know were not true. Obvious, bugs in the code were overlooked, just to hire the diversity candidate.

This is not the hill, i want to die on, and its not my money, but I have lost all respect for my company, i am all for diversity but lowering the bar is not the way to do it. I would rather leave than work alongside the people, i have been "suggested" to hire.

Does other company do the same? Have other interviewers seen this happen?

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TOP 86 Comments
  • McKinsey sallie
    I don’t think doing well in interviews is related to doing well on the job...like who does leetcode mediums as a critical part of their work?? Lol.
    Sep 27 20
    • McKinsey sallie
      Tech is just as much a meritocracy as getting into an elite college - which if you’ve read enough articles isn’t meritocratic at all.
      Sep 27
    • McKinsey sallie
      Diversity hiring at lower bars is the same as affirmative action, which I guess if you don’t support we don’t
      Need to get into that discussion lol cuz no one is gonna change another’s opinion, esp on some anonymous app lol
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Anonymity is required in this day and age. People don't want to have a discussion, they just want to know your name, so that they can start a hashtag and portray you as a bigot.

      That's all it takes to ruin someone's life, a hashtag and one side of the story. Unfortunately, current environment is not conducive to face to face discussions anymore.
      Sep 27
    • Netflix
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      So true @ddrqs. Any discussion with critical points on diversity will get you fired at Netflix
      Sep 27
    • Capital One nonc
      True. Primarily because of asshats like that noob apple guy (@IPnq2AH) who has his head too far up his backside. I just marvel at the tenacity of these trolls who have absolutely NO constructive input to provide other than to make half hearted comments about irrelevant stuff. Too much bile in this world man.
      Sep 27
  • Oracle / Eng I@m
    Why should we believe your story?
    Sep 27 14
    • Oracle / Eng I@m
      ^^ All those candidates also wish they don't work with AH like you "All"? So all men you interview pass?
      Sep 28
    • New / Eng
      xoogler420

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      xoogler420more
      Good, i don’t want people in my team who blame the society for their own failures :) They wouldn’t last long.

      No but much larger proportion of them do - that said, you are clearly a diversity hire and i don’t expect you to understand these complex math concepts
      Sep 28
    • Oracle / Eng I@m
      High on 420?

      Or you are inherently sexist and stupid?
      Sep 28
    • Neurocrine gifs
      @420 were you born an ahole or did you turn into one later in life?

      You seem sexist and entitled.

      > Blame the society for their own failures?
      Go back a few years and disabled people were not given jobs. People of color have suffered, women have suffered. They didn't blame the society. They identified there was a problem, stood up for themselves, the society opposed at first but with their constant efforts, the society started accepting them as equals and got rid of the inherent bias (to a large extent).

      > You are clearly a diversity hire?
      You used the term in a condescending way when it's not. It's takes courage for diversity people to believe in themselves when the society is constantly pulling them down and making them believe it isn't for them, it takes a lot of effort and courage to not let one be affected by how the society treats you and what it thinks of you. Remember the times when most black people wouldn't even apply for jobs run by whites? They stop believing in themselves and start accepting things as is. I look upto diverse people, they are much stronger than you and I.

      > Not understand complex math problems?
      Anyone can understand complex problems. Some take more time, others take less. The ones that take less usually have trained their brain by practicing similar problems over the years, they have a foundation already. Others may need to build that foundation. The hiring bar for diversity candidates is the same as everyone else. But when a company tries to launch programs for them, it is essentially saying that everyone is welcome. They train their employees to get rid of biases and look beyond the most visible things (like color, disability, gender etc). Let's appreciate the efforts towards an inclusive society.

      I hope this gives you some perspective and some homework for your brain to do.
      Sep 28
    • New / Eng
      xoogler420

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      xoogler420more
      Whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa “it’s societies fault” i’m an entitled kid, give me a job whaaaaaa whaaaaaa

      REJECTED

      Maybe it’s not because you’re a minority that nobody wants to work with you? Maybe it’s something else? Also our hiring system evaluates all candidates equally, not my fault entitled brats like you get lower scores ;)

      And i live in a country that doesn’t give a shit about ‘muh racial justice’ asking for race/sex on a job application here is illegal - so save your tyrade please.
      Sep 28
  • New lbvkdss
    You are BS. No one asked you to lower the bar. It is hard to find any qualified engineer to hire. It is even harder to find diversity hire.

    Deep down you may have prejudice. You interviewed few diversity hires and found that they are not qualified. This can happen with non diversity hires too.
    Sep 27 7
    • New / Eng
      WscU36

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      Are you fucking jerk ass or leftist punk? How can you question this guy 'no one asking to lower the bar'? Are you some kind of CXO at Bloomberg? You know everything? Is diversity truth hitting your nerve? Go get something serious to smoke
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Get your head of your ass and write in coherent sentences, you are not making any sense
      Sep 27
    • New / Eng
      WscU36

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      Are you leftist, Bloomberg? I thought only liberals would love to lower the bar. I don't mean to 'fight' you. I was replying to @lbvkdss. But you're being too sensitive.
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      I am not being sensitive. I am trying to keeping name calling and the usual ugliness which accompanies such divisive topic out of the conversation.

      Me being on the left or right, doesn't affect what you feel right? I saw something and i am just curious to see if other companies are doing the same thing
      Sep 27
    • New / Eng
      WscU36

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      I applaud you for bringing up the diversity hire issue. It is part of transformation triggerred by The left and political correctness in years of making. It is spreading and disturbing. The left like @lbvkdss is the one I despise
      Sep 27
  • Capital One ceek
    Wow... so you’re equating diversity to lowering the bar? Smh
    Sep 27 3
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Am i? I am saying that they are lowering bar to meet their diversity quota, but it doesn't mean every diverse person is selected because of low bar.

      It also goes to show why we need to hold everyone to the same standard. So that the people who make it through, can be sure that they are here because of their talent and not because they check some boxes.

      And their colleagues can be sure that they know what they are doing.
      Sep 27
    • Capital One ceek
      You don’t have to say more.
      Such a brat. Hiring anyone different from you is probably lowering the bar?
      I can see you eliminating qualified colored-folks because you can’t stand diversity. Lol
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Its so laugable, nowadays when people cant come up with a coherent response, they will start accusing you of racism. I can't eliminate the unqualified folks, if they are diversity, but i can disqualify as many qualified people as i want, if they are "tech majority"
      Sep 27
  • I've an interview coming up, you're making me feel uncertain now
    Sep 27 2
    • Apple lPnq2Ah
      If you’re a white, Asian or Indian male, it’s all over.
      Sep 27
    • Oracle / Eng I@m
      ^^ if you are interviewer Apple, irrespective of gender it's all over

      Which woman hurt you?
      Sep 27
  • McKinsey sallie
    Instead of blaming diversity hires who got in with Lowered bars - are there stats on how these hires are doing AFTER they got in? Isn’t that way more indicative than rigorous interviews which are probably biased in some way?
    Sep 27 10
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      There is consious and unconscious bias in interview process, which cannot be hidden till you hide everything about the candidate(voices, faces, gender etc) which might happen in the future, but we are not there.

      My whole argument here is to not have two standards for people interviewed for the same position, based on their gender/race/skin color
      Sep 27
    • McKinsey sallie
      Do you not think unconscious bias helps people in the “non diverse” bucket to have an unfair advantage?

      After all, It’s not a silent interview. As an interviewer you’ll be giving guidance, real time feedback, and it’s essentially a conversation. If you unconsciously think a person knows their shit because of the way they explain things (eg, men seem more confident, explain things with metaphors that you feel are more relatable, and so many more examples) it will make them seem like they’re more qualified

      Tangential example, I have HS siblings take intro CS classes, and all the guys SEEM to do better Bc so many of the descriptions are written in “video game” ideas. Lots of females don’t know wtf it means. However, when the metaphor became about music, all the musicians understood the concept regardless of gender.
      Sep 27
    • McKinsey sallie
      So I guess 1) id question what it means to lower the bar and 2) I do believe in affirmative action because the system does unfairly give advantage to a few groups and I don’t think it hurts the company.

      But I don’t think anyone is gonna change anyone’s mind for 2) so I’m fine agreeing to disagree on that front
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Lowering the bar like i sad before is, not letting interviewer freely interview the candidate(not letting interviewer probe candidates weak points, let them follow up on candidates answers), overlooking the obvious coding mistakes in the candidates answers etc, just so that they can be passed.

      We can agreed to disagree. I didn't wrote the questions in the hopes of converting people, i just want to know if its happening at other places, to avoid moving to a worse place
      Sep 27
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      System does give unfair advantage to a few people, but i dont think fixing everything at the same time or in some order will be possible. I hate the suggestion where people are like oh that thing is broken too, fix that first, and then we will talk. I am not sure if thats the right way to look at things, just because your garage is on fire, it doesn't mean you let your house burn down too
      Sep 27
  • Google / Eng
    grx

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    grxmore
    It is the fault of the company, if they lower the bar. They should look harder for diversity candidates, not lower the bar.
    Sep 27 1
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      I agree. They want to take the easy way out, and it's gonna ultimately end up hurting the company and the people in it
      Sep 27
  • Apple lPnq2Ah
    Yes. It happens at Apple, and it’s happened at Amazon where I was before.

    It’s unfortunate because the team ends up suffering b/c they have to pick up the slack.

    Oh well, at least our diversity numbers improved right?
    Sep 27 1
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Its so outrageous, i so wanted to override the decision, but like i said not my money and this is not the hill, i want to die on
      Sep 27
  • Microsoft M1Abrams
    Obligatory proof or GTFO
    Sep 27 2
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Proof like my name, location and a recording of the incident? I would surely do that next time to convince a random person on the internet 😂
      Sep 27
    • Microsoft M1Abrams
      Well then Gtfo
      Sep 27
  • Facebook AzadHind
    Tc or gtfo
    Sep 27 3
    • Intuit / Eng justhonest
      STFU or gtfo - who gives a shit about their TC wtf does that have to do with their questions
      Sep 27
    • Facebook AzadHind
      Blind etiquette
      Sep 27
    • AT&T MsdR32
      +1 AzadHind - this is Blind!
      Sep 27
  • Netflix
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    It’s very comment at Netflix. Some positions are explicitly reserved for diversity where managers don’t even interview other candidates.
    Sep 27 2
    • Oracle / Eng I@m
      Can you elaborate on what kind of roles?
      Sep 27
    • Netflix
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      Engineering
      Sep 27
  • Nope. I’ve seen the minority like Hispanic got fast tracked to Facebook interview, but that doesn’t mean it’s lowering the bar. I don’t do that to my team either.

    If anything, it’s probably harder once they are in now since people like you think the minorities got there not on their merit.
    Sep 27 1
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      It's not lowering the bar. Lowering the bar will be when you are giving them questions which you think they can solve(which is very insulting to them), or you overlook or ask other people to overlook obvious logical errors in the code, not let interviewer explore candidates weak areas. Basically tie interviewers hand at the back and just get them to rubber stamp the candidature
      Sep 27
  • McKinsey sallie
    Out of curiosity - who here is a diversity candidate/employee and doesnt support lowering the bar?
    Sep 27 0
  • Simpli.fi PoP85
    I don't see it at my current company but at my previous one it was very prevalent. They would hire people who could barely code and that really frustrated me. It was definitely part of the reason I left.
    Sep 27 0
  • Verizon Media Atinlay6
    Why the tagged companies?
    Sep 27 1
    • Bloomberg ddrqs
      OP
      Just want to see, what's happening at other big/famous companies
      Sep 27
  • Betterment
    GSOq03

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    GSOq03more
    Sounds like the recruiting team at BB is bought in to this initiative for all the right reasons. If you really cared you would know it has much more to do with capturing the candidates that are not interested (for the right reasons I might add) or not aware of BB. It is about creating an interview process that accommodates all backgrounds and asks questions that get to the root of the job requirements. No wonder so many people want to leave BB because they are disconnected.
    Sep 30 0
  • Manulife Financial white girl
    maybe I should identify as an attack helicopter
    Sep 28 0
  • Intuit ZeroSnarks
    I have not personally witnessed this at my company.
    Sep 27 0
  • Oracle / Eng I@m
    Move out. It might not even be company wide but team specific

    I have never expected this!
    Sep 27 0

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