This doesn't include those already on green card.
- I agree that the problem is complicated. However, on the other hand several countries get around this problem with a points based merit based system. At the end of the day, it's the US that is losing on skill by having quotas. Funnily enough, it reminds me of caste based quotas in India which contributes to dilution of talent. Same shit, different country.
India has no incentive to solve this problem. If Indian engineers can't come here, they will likely benefit from some of them choosing to stay behind. If the US wants the world's best, I doubt that country based quotas will get them there. Ultimately, to me it's clear that the US doesn't want the world's best. If the US wants the best, it's on them to fix it. Not India. Why on Earth would India want to make sure the best in their country can get to the US?
- The points based systems are somewhat better then what we have now but honestly not THAT different.
We already have a tiered system with eb1, eb2, and eb3 giving you different priority based on education and experience. A points system is just a more granular version with perhaps some improved factors. EB1 is already effectively outside the country cap and so in that sense we are already getting the most meritorious through EB1, and eb2/eb3 are by definition queues full of those who are NOT the best.
Points are also totally gameable.
For example, is an additional degree really a good proxy for merit? Does it really mean you are smarter or more capable? Or does it just mean you were willing to trade two years of your life to get extra points for US immigration? I suspect quite a lot of people enroll in these programs only because they want an immigration benefit and not because they were any smarter than others who just went to work. What it's really measuring in the case is how badly they want to come to the US.
To me that's not merit.
So then you look at salary and in an unbiased world that may be merit, but if you make immigration depend on it that creates some weird incentives. First, you will exclude nurses who we arguably need way more than we need another software engineer. Second, it's just gameable: pay a $50k kickback to get another $30k in comp.
I do think points is an improvement over just having three tiers. I don't think it's enough of an improvement to allow us to drop the caps, which currently are the ONLY thing currently buffering the system from horrific abuse.
- Good points. My only real nitpick is about the eb1/eb2/eb3 argument. While yes, you are technically right that the 'best' can utilize this method, all you've really done is segregated the extraordinary individuals from everyone else. So essentially you've put all the other people - the extremely talented, skilled folks who aren't eb1 in the same bucket as the average people who are seeking an immigration benefit. That doesn't quite address filling the tens of thousands of jobs with the best available individuals from around the world.
At the end of the day, while I understand where you're coming from, I can't say I will ever be convinced that a cap/quota based on a person's country of birth makes sense when you are looking for the best available individuals for a job.
- Merit based is very subjective and it can be abused as well. A country with more immigrants in specific area can benefit from networking effect. For example, it is widely known that some Indians hire and promote Indians primarily. This practice even displaces local people and make the hiring process favor the majority (Indians) even more. As a result, quality of engineers would be inferior to other groups which had to go through much tougher process.
Also, how do you measure the merit? One can think America will benefit if they bring German and Japanese engineers in auto industry. They would also think of bringing more engineers from Finland, Norway, England, Korea and Taiwan than India judging based on the revenue and profit of their home grown companies. Or if assimilation and knowing US culture are important, the merit should weigh on people who got their education in US high school and undergraduate programs.
If we eliminate the quota and bring everyone that is qualified, Americans will lose jobs over to hardworking immigrants. Will they welcome immigrants then? How about brain drain happening in India? Why can’t India have Satya and Sundar? Immigration is not a simple thing. If US goes by merit system that favors Indians, basically Indians will try every effort to come to US and no one will care about India. It will continue remained as developing country with population doubling every couple decades. Competition for Indians thus will only increase. Is this really fair? Fair to whom? Do we want more immigrants who just want to run away from their home country? Are they good citizens? Country quota is far from perfect but it ensures such problems don’t get bigger.
More Indian immigration with merit based will be insult to Indians remained in India as it benefits the upper middle class people (privileged people) and throw away the people at disadvantage (majority actuality).Feb 92
- Amazon freesoctyTruth - Indians only hire Indians. Many Amazon teams’ leaders were shipped from the Indian office. Then the Indian leaders hired directly from India, issued out tons of international relocation packages, and increased their comps by 5 times. Ultimately, the teams became all Indian and people of other races stayed away from these teams. We all know their working efficiency. They love kissing asses more than engineering. I wish the money could have been used to increase the comp and steal the top talents from Ivy League, Stanford, Caltech who went to Google and FB eventually.
I heard similar patterns in Microsoft and Google too.
- Facebook job-huntinIndians are the only people who don’t get GC within a few years, so they are the only people who need H1B extensions. This just proves that Indians here have more hard time than other legal immigrants
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- I can understand what it must be like to be a retar$ like you, I empathize for you. Please go to facilities that will take care of you, and work on making you understand things a little better.
Please don’t hurt these normal people on blind, they aren’t your match. It should be retar$ vs retar$
I pray to god for your mental illness.Feb 111
- The other two guys explained you their logic nice and clear, over and over again. But you were incapable of understanding them and paraphrased your dumb racist hypothesis over and over again.
I wish blind had an IQ test with some reasonable cutoff, that would have kept morons like you at bay.Feb 111
- There's no logic here, only denial.
Bunch of people who push this narrative that all their problems are caused by Americans don't like hearing the truth.
The India backlog was totally reasonable before the body shops ramped up and started spamming apps after AC21.
If they got shut down tomorrow and their spam cleared from the queue you'd have a greencard in a couple years. Really.
This is very clearly a made in India problem. The country cap is unfair but it's not what's causing this.
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- ^ All sputter. No content.
To recap, the root cause of the long queue is the many low quality applications put in by Indian consulting firms, a Made in India problem that is the result of an intentional Indian government economic plan. This includes the many low quality schools feeding those body shops, which India wrongly accredited.
The problem and solution are in India and Indian voters need to deal with it.
You won't dispute this because it's an obvious and we'll known fact, so you will get frustrated and hurl insults, since this destroys your narrative blaming Americans.
That's your way of conceding the point: hurling childish insults because no facts agree with you.Feb 121
- What's wrong with this? This only means that Indians are smart and hard-working. This is what The United States needs. Local people is lazy trash sitting on welfare and doing drugs.
- New / Engleet4jobI agree on your first part that many Indians are hardworking and smart. However, success is also relative to the opportunities you received during the span of your life. Homeless or disadvantaged people may have an tragic incident that prevent them from having a good life. So please have a heart and stop your attitude that "local people are lazy trash stting on welfare and doing drugs". It's a pretty big and arrogant statement.
Although you may be an immigrant, but it doesn't translate that you must be poorer or having less opportunities than some local people here.
Source: I am an immigrant.Feb 81
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- Someone who claim to face racism on one hand and spews hatred on other people is nothing but a hypocrite racist themselves. I hope you get over your jealousy towards Indians even if they are dominating your ass in US or worldwide. You think Hispanic don't hate the immigration system? "BUILD THAT WALL"? Shitole countries? "Mexicans bring crime"? Would you leave opportunites here to go elsewhere?Feb 72
- Seriously? Only 250k? How much some people bit,ch and complain about Indians I thought you're surrounded by millions of them!!
Man up, snowflakes!
- There’s no “visa industry” in India. It’s just supply and demand. India has a large population of English speaking engineers. And there’s a better life in America and lot of tech jobs. US companies like immigrants because they work hard and are less entitled in general. The “abuse” you are talking about is people finding a way to deal with this legally.
- No, it's spam. Visa industry in industry submits five or ten applications per person. Even the school system is set up to produce more people than the Indian system can absorb with the goal of using that h1b and l1 abuse to send them overseas.
There is demand in the US for nurses and doctors but theyare shut out of the system by the aggressive Indian abuse.
Weneed to cap h1b proportional to population. That will also fix the greencard wait problem as well.
- Amazon BfRx68Well this is pretty much the world we live in! Two people with different opinions and perspectives and no ones willing to budge after a long discussion. And this is a relatively small issue. If you ask me, this is a good sign that Humanity is doomed!
- Vlocity FTJU@0C one employer can only file for one h1 per person. Also, you mean to say the whole education system in India is designed to send people outside the country?
I don't think you know how the system works. There are so many doctors and nurses on h1 from India. H1b applications for doctors are usually cap exempt.
- The body shops create multiple entities and file multiple visas. They also file ten applications expecting only some to be approved.
It's really bad.
And yeah, the Indian government knows that it is graduating more students than it needs and has done nothing about that, so the solution to "not enough opportunity in India" is something India should fix by reducing the number of schools while increasing the local opportunity.
H1b applications by nurses are not cap exempt and there are many other industries besides tech that can benefit from foreign workers.
- US population - 330 Million,
India population - 1.8 Billion.
even if you trim the applications by 10% as cream of the crop you have 180 million and thats half the US population. Why are you surprised that Indians are getting more visas. they just have more applications. No one is restricting other countries to apply.