Question for social right wing

Google / Enggamala
Feb 9 33 Comments

I am baffled when I hear people say that no African Americans today were slaves, so the slavery history of their ancestors is not relevant.

If this is what you believe... I assume it must mean you had an excellent childhood with one or two functional fully healthy parents.

Because if anyone has been raised by a parent with a history of severe childhood trauma, you know that severe childhood trauma gets passed along generation to generation.

So what gives? How do you see the situation differently from the perspective I'm offering?

Thank you!

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TOP 33 Comments
  • Verizon hudF20
    It’s used to play victim and blame difficult situations on a nonexistent inequality.

    As a black man, I am able to freely go where I please. If I don’t like my company, I can leave it. I can go anywhere another race can. (Not klan meetings, though).

    To sit here and blame my hard ships on the fact that I don’t have every single chance at a good life in comparison to any other citizen due to being black is asinine.

    So slavery blew, but it has no bearing on life today.
    Feb 91
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Slavery has a legacy, but the reasons for black poverty in the US are material - not only passed-on trauma and certainly not “culture” or any of the victim-blaming done by politicians of both parties.

    1. Jobs:

    In the mid-century, tons of black people migrated from the south to cities where they fought for 20+ years to be allowed into non-service jobs (rather than being restricted to nannies and porters etc). Just when black workers started being able to get good jobs in manufacturing, urban industry moved to the US south or more remote suburbs where newer facilities could be built on cheaper land.

    2. Housing

    Redlining existed a generation or two ago. This restricted where black people could live - generally by train tracks or docs. When industry left the home values plummeted because what good is housing for industrial workers when the plants all move away leaving pollution and joblessness wastelands.

    Without the same restrictions most white people had more equity and could move to the suburbs to follow the jobs. Black people, however, lost home value from redlining and de-industrialization and also faced discrimination because it was wildly believed (even after redlining) in the housing industry that black people themselves drop home values (not, you know, being restricted to living in a certain area that has basically gone through a localized depression). So black people generally could not build up equity which other manufacturing workers used to send their kids to college.

    3. War on crime

    In the context of urban depression in the 70s, instead of job programs or support, cities cut social spending and restricted welfare programs and neglected schools and whatnot. Meanwhile they increased policing and sentencing (a bi-partisan effort) and the federal government incentivized policies of police basically going around and searching people until they found someone with a gun or drugs.

    Cities dealt with urban de-industrialization by basically locking up the surplus workforce. This hurt all poor people but poor African Americans most acutely (with native Americans or Latinos being the main target in more rural areas).

    ...

    All of this is not to downplay the lasting negative legacies of slavery in the US in general - the whole concept of white supremacy was created to justify slavery and post-civil war repression of blacks... and we still see these arguments today. But I think the reasons for black urban poverty are much much more recent and concrete. Housing, jobs, and urban policy reasons for African American poverty are just “inconvenient truths” for politicians in an age of austerity and neoliberalism because dealing with systemic things like this means that they would have to go against their whole ideology of helping the rich while telling workers to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps”. When the boot of housing policy, the government and the police is on your neck, no amount of pulling on it will lift you up - you have to get the boot off of you before anything else.
    Feb 99
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      Thanks for taking the time to share these details.
      Feb 9
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      I didn’t intend for it to be that long 😭
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft leet_away
      How do you explain the fact that Asian immigrants who came here with no money, not knowing the language and sometimes with almost no education are so successful? Not only that, but they managed to set their children up for success and became the most successful demographic. Most black people unarguably have a head start in terms of education and net worth compared to someone “fresh off the boat”.
      Feb 9
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      No all Asian immigrant groups are successful - that’s a bit of a myth. Muddle class immigrants tend to do ok no matter where they’re from.

      Chinese immigrants in the early 20th century were also restricted and were also poorer than average Americans even after the legal restrictions ended. Newer Asian immigrants from certain groups have been more successful... but Asians from poor backgrounds are loosing economic ground.

      http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/07/12/income-inequality-in-the-u-s-is-rising-most-rapidly-among-asians/

      “From 1970 to 2016, the gains in income for lower-income Asians trailed well behind the gains for their counterparts in other groups.”

      The idea that Asians are a “model minority” is just a myth to try and downplay structural causes for inequality and poverty. Black and Asian middle classes have much more mobility but they are a small percentage.
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft leet_away
      It’s not a myth. Here’s the income distribution at the 90th percentile from the article you mentioned.
      Feb 9
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Lol, um yes - and Obama also makes lots of money but we don’t say... see African Americans are all rich.

      Do you think the majority of Asians in the US are part of the 90th percentile? There are more south and southeast Asians in the US than East Asians who make up the highest earning group of Asians. Indians are the exception - but again like Tiwanese and newer Chinese immigrants who tend to have wealthy background already.

      Or do you not consider Vietnamese, Loation, Cambodian or Mongolian people Asian?
      Feb 9
    • Facebook 🥾 ⛺️
      Selection bias as well, East Asians in America who come on talent visas are not the ones who plow fields in south China.
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft leet_away
      Do you understand what what 90th percentile means? By definition that includes almost all the Asians in the US.
      Feb 9
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Lol, do you understand what it means?!!!

      Because it’s 90th percentile of income earners, not 90% of the population. Ie the top 10% of income earners among Asians in that graph tend to make more on average than, say, the top 10% of Latinos.

      Here’s what the article said: “This measure of inequality, known as the 90/10 ratio, takes the ratio of the income needed to place among the top 10% of earners in the U.S. (the 90th percentile) to the income at the threshold of the bottom 10% of earners (the 10th percentile).1 It is a simple measure of the gap in income between the top and the bottom of the income ladder and is commonly used by researchers and government agencies.
      ...
      This marked difference in the growth in inequality reflects the fact that Asians near the top experienced more growth in income from 1970 to 2016 than any other group while Asians near the bottom experienced the least growth.”

      This is probably confusing to you because it doesn’t conform to the myth you believe.
      Feb 9
  • Oath / MgmtAtinlay
    Kinda jumping to conclusions, don’t ya think?
    Feb 94
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      Dude you need to explain to thinking. We are coming from a totally different set of assumptions.
      Feb 9
    • Oath / MgmtAtinlay
      Your thinking and assumptions are biased and wrong
      Feb 9
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      Hahaha you realize that isn't a useful response right. Everyone is biased and wrong. Who cares? I'm here to understand what I'm missing because I know sure as hell that the other side has strong justification for their beliefs like everyone does, I just don't know what the justification is
      Feb 9
    • Oath / MgmtAtinlay
      You realize that isn’t a useful post, right?
      Feb 10
  • Microsoft
    MP3

    Microsoft

    BIO
    Troll living under the I-5 overpass
    MP3more
    1) you can focus your energy on talking about something that happened to your great great great great grandparents and trauma you incurred because of it

    Or

    2) use the resources available to you in 21st century to overcome the “trauma” and succeed in life in whichever way you see fit.
    Feb 93
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      For the individual, absolutely, this is the only way to go. Totally unhelpful to dwell on trauma and disadvantages. But when you look at the collective, how is this useful? I see an entire subculture mostly trapped in poverty and hell.
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft
      MP3

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Troll living under the I-5 overpass
      MP3more
      Let’s say “trapped in poverty and hell” for African Americans is somehow a result of ancestors being enslaved, the segregation and racism, etc. Then how do you explain white poverty? Not just in US, but elsewhere in the world?

      A subculture is a collective of individuals who share certain view of the world, beliefs. You can have a subculture of believing in oppression, or subculture of empowerment.
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft nodaddy
      White poverty, specially in the US is also influenced heavily by segregation, just like poor poc. In fact this is true around the globe with the exception being the regions previously under the ussr, where poverty is a bit more of an overall problem to deal with after trying to recover.
      Feb 9
  • Microsoft TrumpWins
    The problem is that they use this argument as a shield to hide behind like a coward for political reasons. You act like blacks were the only ones enslaved. You also assume that all blacks would agree with you. Both are totally wrong.
    Feb 91
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      If I were black I wouldn't agree with me. It's not helpful to see oneself as a victim, it's not helpful to dwell on hardships! But what shield are you referring to?
      Feb 9
  • Google armatu
    My grandparents went through World War 2. My grandmother's pregnant sister was killed in front of her eyes (she was 5). My grandparent's father and three brother's were killed at war. He was 12 at the time. Oh, and Russia had slavery too until 1800s. My ancestors were slaves too. And there was also another world war early 1900. And repressions from the socialistic regime. In 1930s. Killed millions of people.

    This is a completely different scale than slavery in U.S. And Russians are kind of messed up by it. But one of the things I see there is that they refuse to be victims. My grandparents tried hard not to pass their trauma on my parents. And my parents tried hard not to pass it on us. Every generation heals and "improves", if you wish.

    What happens in US is I think AA are being told that they are victims. And even though their circumstances weren't nearly as severe, the perception and self perception is very different.
    Feb 93
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Nobody likes to view themselves as victims but I think this is a straw-argument. Were civil rights movements victims? When you are trying to change an ongoing problem is it being a victim? Or is it trying to no longer be victimized.
      Feb 9
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      You make a very interesting point. Thank you for sharing your story. I think you have a strong argument that my view on this situation is counterproductive and actually helping to keep American blacks oppressed.
      Feb 9
    • Google armatu
      EllisDee25. Not sure I got what you are trying to say.
      Feb 9
  • Snapchat gqkO66
    Stop being a whiner. Fucking 200 years of slavery and OH SO OPPRESSED. Join my ancestors out in the Siberian steppe where it’s nothing but cold starvation, cold warfare or cold slavery for 3000 years. They even named slavery after the Slavs for god sakes, and do you see them complaining?
    Feb 90
  • Microsoft DangerRngr
    « Birth of a Nation »
    Artist: Michael Doughty
    https://www.instagram.com/Morethanmiked/
    Feb 90
  • New
    Bongzilla

    New

    PRE
    Pegasystems, Robert Half
    BIO
    App Dev & Delivery
    Bongzillamore
    I don’t follow the intent of this post.

    Are you suggesting that childhood traumas are somehow related to slavery?
    Feb 93
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      Slavery stamped generations with intense childhood trauma. Forced separation from parents, rape, humiliation.
      Feb 9
    • New
      Bongzilla

      New

      PRE
      Pegasystems, Robert Half
      BIO
      App Dev & Delivery
      Bongzillamore
      I bet it did impact those who experienced it firsthand. It must have been tough to have been ‘sold’ and shipped across an ocean by people with the same skin color as you.

      To claim that one’s DNA, or psyche, has been imprinted with these hardships hundreds of years later seems a dubious claim at best.
      Feb 9
    • Google / Enggamala
      OP
      I didn't mean to imply anything about dna, although the epeginetic science is emerging there. I'm saying that people traumatized in their childhoods usually then go on to traumatize the next generation, their kids. If someone never got love, they don't know how to give love.
      Feb 9

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