Is it just going to be the norm on blind that any post about this topic that doesent support the bills will be flagged into oblivion? Why are supporters so afraid of free speech and discussion even trying to get this passed without debate in the senate?
- Microsoft TIwr82OPAll I hear from the pro bill argument is that they are willing to inflict the same pain they feel on every other country on earth just to shorten their queue slightly? This is a deeply flawed bill that does not fix the actual problem just distributes a problem created by Indian consultancy companies to every other country. The term ROW makes it sound like it’s a 1 VS 1 arrangement where it’s India vs ROW but you have to consider that ROW is literally every other country on earth except China who are also against this bill and effectively part of ROW against this. I think everyone agrees reform is badly needed, but this is selfish and solves nothing.
- Gonna share the best post in my opinion from these debates
Indians: I have to wait 152 years for GC
RoW: lol, whatever
HR 1044 passes with rare majority
RoW: 3 YEARS FOR GC IS UNACCEPTABLE!!
- Just remember, I as an individual applied. I didn't conspire with anyone from my country nor did my country conspire to send me.
If we were to treat applicants as countries, it gives the basis to reject every Iranian because they belong to enemy country (which I will never support - my Iranian brothers and sisters deserve equal treatment as much as me), same with Chinese, Afghanistan etc.
Treating people as countries is such a slippery slope, you can even justify Japanese internment with it.
- Nobody is sneaking in. Did you bother to hear about 1044 in house? It passed house with over whelming majority. There is a reason why that happened. It's because 365 offices see that as simple technical fix that doesn't penalize Someone for immutable characteristic like country of birth.
Flagged by the community.
- It’s not true. Juridically it’s considered as one whole country.
What happens between its borders is only business of the indian people.
US immigration discriminates based on country of origin within in Europe.
RoW sees indians as indians. It’s really not RoW’s business that indian society within India is so broken down and not united. US is united - United States of America.
- EPAM Systems 3@T_d1€kIt's only to be expected from people who try to sneak S386 and HR1044 through Congress without a single debate on it.
They have no arguments. It's always "you're racist" with absolutely zero backing of the claim.
Flagged by the community.
Flagged by the community.
- I’m totally OK with a bill that reduces Indian wait time without sacrificing everyone else in the process. Indians get about 20% of GC quota per year. If they get 60% they will have very manageable wait time and ROW can still get their GC fairly quickly.
However, they are just way too selfish and greedy and they want 100% GCs to solve their problem. I hope this bill never pass.
- I would anyday take a bill that doesn't affect anyone. After all, more support is good.
Politics is a different beast. There is no way to pass a bill that increases a single GC outside of a comprehensive reform. Unfortunately such a reform has not happened in the last 3 decades and there is no hope of one anytime. For all the wait we have done, we never got any support from row, because just like you, the rest of beneficiaries don't care about my wait. Some would even prefer we don't exist (but I digress).
This is the baby step in a real solution. Sure it's going to make the wait for RoW a little longer from 0-2 years to 4-6 years. But yeah this is the price we pay for equality.
When blacks gained jobs, privileged whined like this. So don't worry, this has happened in the past and this will happen in future.
To all my fellow countrymen who are like me: just don't become the whiny snob like the one above and let's be empathetic to other's pain if we ever get into position of privilege.Sep 18 7
- Theirs approx 7.7 billion people in the world today, and about 1.3 billion of those from India. If you exclude the US and India that’s about 6 billion people who can be classed as ROW. So this bill will make it so that somehow every single green card for the next decade will go to a group of 1.3 billion, where the group of 6 billion won’t get a single one? And this is fair how exactly?
Flagged by the community.
- Made up graphs like this come up so often and folks treat it like it's the ultimate truth!
Reality is this is ONE viewpoint and a much debunked one. The simple reality being nobody really knows how long the queue is!
That is because there is really no way to know how many folks are waiting(priority dates for Indians is decades back and EB GC is filed only when an employer change happens). Even in the worst case this is an exaggerated view at best.
- Fear is an easy emotion to evoke.
For S386/HR1044 all that needs to happen is a wait_time_for_row++ every now and then when no one is looking and volla you now have earned another poor soul's fear who thinks this bill punishes everyone while granting sweet privileged to just Indians and Chinese.
- LOL! Just read the bill itself before reading any "credible reports" that are trying to predict a doomsday future!
Briefly, while the backlog clears, 4 years from now, future applicants may see a temporary delay in their processing times.
Normal processing time is already 2+ years for a GC. Wait times run in parallel, so a total wait time of 5-6 years will be seen as a delay of 3-4 years in the worst case scenario!
If you are interested, just question how these prediction were made and you will see ridiculously absurd assumptions like the whole of India will apply and the USCIS will just let every Indian Kumar and Raj in, without question!!
- Anything related to s386 is flagged. They want to secretly pass it as law.
- Why should we not debate this on blind ? Why are Indians abusing blind and blocking freespeech just because they have the numbers? This is the same attitude represented in the India first bill. The topic is not in my best interest so let’s rally the crowd and flag it!!!sickening behavior.
If you don’t like free speech you have already demonstrated that you will not make good Americans.
- Oh cut out the hypocrisy will ya! Folks aren't flagging honest debates. Just read this post - you will see a bunch of racist trolls who have just one agenda - to demean Indians!
Free speech comes with responsibility, if you cannot exercise free speech responsibly then you don't deserve to be in a democracy!
- 'you guys have polluted the line' -> no I didn't - to stereotype everyone as if they are responsible for everything bad in the system is racism.
Definition: prejudice against another class (race) with the belief that one is superior.
That and posting Steve Pushor's graphs - is classic definition of one. You can hide as much as you want, but everyone is noticing this. Don't worry. Karma is a whatever, it will take it's toll. 🙂
- I tend to disagree about your definition. Your team is superior over mine in terms capabilities, or people from your town are superior over people from my town (within the same country), because they are smarter with better education. (Hypothetically speaking). Is that still racism?
I am tired of people bringing up racism every single time they feel even a bit on the losing side of an argument. Racism is irrelevant here.
To give you another perspective: eastern europe’s backlog used to be 8 years, while Western Europe was 0. Generally speaking it’s all the same race. Is that still racism? I don’t think so.
- To supporters of this bill, now that it has failed again can we please accept that trying to ram this through congress is not how to fix the problem. I genuinely feel sorry for the skilled people coming from India who don’t deserve this long wait however this is caused by Indian consultancy companies and this needs to be resolved first! You have a far better chance of getting reform by working with every other country for a fairer system then trying to destroy the entire system that currently works for every other country just for your gain in the way that immigration voice is doing, and acting in bad faith towards everyone who doesn’t support this, is only to your peril.
- Bro, are you for real? You can't write a law putting caps on h1 and expect it to survive courts. It goes against EEO laws. Sweet summer child, who hasn't empathized about anyone in backlog, comes up with routes that go to nowhere.
Not just that, you can never get such laws passed, as companies will be up in arms. You can never pass one even if the Hill wasn't as toxic as it is today.
You will be fine even fixing world peace, hunger. Everyone is. What you are doing to fix matters, not empty words that have no realistic chance of becoming law.Sep 21 1
- Impact is as large as you think - let's agree to disagree.
I posted above about the tech settlement - it made companies give raises for several years just to catch up with market dynamics. Those are cold hard facts. These numbers aren't small either to say they must be insignificant. I am not making any of them up. Why should anyone believe your feelings over data and hard facts I presented above?
Also note that there folks were only colluding on cold calling - not preventing the employee from changing jobs. The effect of making it hard for employees to change jobs is a big whack than just not cold calling.
Care to come up with data to prove which is larger?
Did you read through the settlement link I gave above? Many companies gave 10-15% raises for several years (2-3 years) to reach market parity. These are documented facts.Sep 21 1
- Country quota has literally made the anti diverse situation you are talking about - this is exactly where we disagree. You seem to not see the basic labor dynamics.
Eventually almost 100% of GC - that's because of the backlog. Once the backlog is cleared, GC wait time will be consistent for all. This in addition to the existing extra scrutiny from s386 Grassley amendment - will kill the consultancy companies that we all hate. What it will leave out is applications from large companies.
Any fixes to improve the overall quality is everyone's responsibility and you seem to think you live in a void and you getting GC is all good. you are missing that you share the labor market.
This is also why I tell folks like me not to be a snob, because if you can't empathize with others , you can never see the issue fully. Our understanding will then simply stay narrow as what matters to us and think we are done after that.Sep 21 0
- Wow I feel like I am talking to a wall. You are simply reiterating what you said without addressing the concern I expressed.
Why the heck are you repeating what you said for the part I agreed? Also, what you said is somehow backed by cold hard facts and what others said is not? Where is the common sense?
You have not answered to a single issue I have questioned. How can I keep the adult conversation here when one party keeps talking about different topic yet claim his one is backed by data and link that to the main topic? I already said that is meaningless to non Indians. I already provided simple math to show which is just a common sense to almost every person I know. If you have not received the same quality of social education, how can I have discussion? This is simply a common sense that I don’t need to find data. Should I present the data for one plus one?
Look, I even agreed to the point. Then, I said what is good if it only benefits Indians? When other people are displaced even further, how can they like this? Isn’t that racism? You are advocating strongly for the benefit of Indians. Basically, racial supremacy. Don’t you see the problem that comes from monopoly? Should I also present the data for why monopoly is not good?Sep 21 0
- So here is the summary of what you said -
1) there is over representation of Indians - this I agree.
2) You say country caps maintain it - that's far from truth - infact I believe that the country caps actually led to the problem 1 above. You also agreed to will understood labor market dynamics that lead to over representation.
Next you are telling me - retaining caps is good to maintain diversity - that makes no sense because we just agreed that backlog destroyed diversity.
Your point then is - well it didn't as much as you think it does. Here is where we disagree. I believe the majority of the reason for over representation is backlog.
Backlog is not a way to maintain diversity because the folks on employment visa are already in the country and they already participate in the labor market. This is very different from family visa where the person often isn't in US working before applying for GC (from which the country caps were copy pasted to employment GC).
Biased hiring is a problem (we both agree). The disagreement is that you seem to make arguments that fixing backlog will not help. One fix you suggested is in adding cap in h1 not GC. But adding cap on h1 will get killed in courts as it is against EEO laws. So you aren't able to fix it in h1. Leaving country caps on employment visa will destroy the little diversity left (although it sounds counter intuitive, we already established above on this). The longer you leave the country caps in place, the harder it gets for the system to heal.
Can we do whatever we can with these constraints? Yes and that would be removing caps to promote diversity.
Hope this helps.Sep 22 2
- This time Senator David Perdue blocked S386 to Unanimous Consent. We need keep calling to Senators to let them know how disastrous this bill would be.
- Okta doll$hLol as if it matters about what people discuss on blind. Nobody gives a crap, mate!
- Synchrony ————https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing-companies-dominate-h1b-visas.html
This is why we have this problem in the first place. I say put country cap on H1B.
- Facebook didn’t even taste it yet. They have good number of non Indian engineers. However, Qualcomm, Intel, Cisco and Microsoft are different stories. I have seen people from all over the countries are let go by Indian managers. It is ridiculous. This is one of the reasons Gc queue is clogged. They hire their own people and ended up putting clog on their Gc queue. So many incompetent folks. FB and G have it better since they hire by committee.Sep 20 2
- Exactly. I talk with people from all over the countries including Eastern Europe, China, Vietnam, Egypt you name it and they all complain but they are just an employee. Indians have a major power and no ones want to do a political game against the big group. Besides, Indians are the single biggest group that is bigger than the sum of the rest.
My colleague said his white American manager talked to him about how hard it is for him to survive amongst Indian managers. Yeah even white Americans can’t survive in the political battle. Tech has crossed the line beyond the control.
When China takes off, US tech could fall behind. Chinese at least proved they can develop software services and products they can sell (yeah probably a lot of spying involved). What have Indians done in India? Yet a ton of high level executives are filled with Indians. They make sure to fill all their VPs and directors with Indians.
A lot of their success is riding on the hardwork done by Americans and others.
- Americans let them flood in 2000ish with Internet boom at the time. Anybody who can write HTML was paid six digits at that time and majority was from India as they had this information and could speak English.
Another major source is consulting agencies that provide people source at cheap cost. Because no other companies set up this, most are Indians. Many of them eventually got a job at big tech and they brought their former colleagues or sometimes entire teams were hired as FTE.
Fast forward they are in high level management. Their survival instinct made them use political game and hiring their people as their strengths. Americans or other people don’t have that nature. People from developed world would not do that and simply go back if things are bad here. India was even poorer country back then.
Indians speak English. US needs another country to stop China and it chose India for tech. Lots of political agreements between the two governments therefore. That causes more influx as tech companies set up dev office in India. I see more folks coming directly to US without studying in US.
- Hr1044 has not been debated on the floor, most people are not even aware that this will screw over everyone who is not Indian. They will have to wait 10 + years. Better solution is merit based system but Indians don’t like that
- Fake news! Aka Fear mongering!
Temporary delay while the backlog clears that too 4 years after bill becomes law.
How long will the delay be ?
CORRECT ANSWER: UNKNOWN!
Possible answer: 3 years
Probable answer: 4 years
After backlog clears there is no more delay than there is today!
- Ok calculate this for me “high skill” how long will it take for 650 k Indians to clear a backlog with 80 k allowable In EB2/eb3
Now add transition period to that figure.
Let me know when you do the math.
Here is a pro hr1044 article that states that the wait will be ~ 10 years
- In the event that s386 passes, What happens to non indian / non chinese folks with current priority dates whos I140 and I485 gets filed in 2019 itself, But after s386 passes ? 🤔
- Please call your senators and give your opposing opinions ASAP. There should be more study and debate on this before passing it.
I think no non Indian talent would come to US schools or companies if this passes.
- AppDynamics wbBH48Sen Kamal Haris was born in Oakland, CA to immigrant parents. Her father, a Stanford economics Prof, immigrated from Jamaica. Her mother, a breast-cancer scientist, immigrated from India. Both parents immigrated as students. Sen. Harris is a co-sponsor of the bill, so her stance on it is well-known.
So much misinformation on this thread on things that are a simple Google search away!
- You can find your state senators number here
- Uber ePpi42the issue was caused by Indian consulting company has been abusing h1 visas and creating the high backlog for Indian gc
- Don’t waste your time debating here, ask everyone you k is to call your senator and say you oppose this bill. This is not a real solution . FCFS is not a skill, timing of your application is not a skill, waiting is not a skill. Most qualified candidate should get GC .. ask for merit system not this crap.
- Look, it is so controversial. How could it possibly pass without a single public hearing?