S386/HR1044 Myth Buster with sources cited

VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
Sep 21 455 Comments

These bills seek to remove the per country cap in employment based green card category making it free from discrimination on an applicant's country of birth.

This is a much needed relief for many backlogged tech workers who have been working in USA, legally, for decades with absurd GC wait times like 150 years, all while proving year after year to visa officers their worth and value to America!

It has been a contentious topic and many posts get flagged and disappear.
I would just like to clear some popular misconceptions I see on blind and elsewhere on this topic. I base it only on facts NOT opinions and cite all my sources for your independent verification.

Myth 1 "Wait times for all except Indians will become 10+ years."

FALSE: True number of backlogged cases is unknown. But a number does come from a CATO post (cited below) that used a bunch of worst case estimates of 300k backlogged Indians assuming each applicant has 2+ dependents. It's a worst case estimate because most Indians have American kids (who don't need GC). It also assumes ZERO dropouts (untrue as thousands of Indians leave this broken system every year).
The original source was really trying to highlight the plight of Indians stuck here.

But EVEN SO their number of 632k backlogs / 140k GCs per year = 4.5years to clear backlog!!!
The bill already has a transition phase of 3 years which means for 3 years the country caps are increased, NOT removed. The bill also has a DO-NO-HARM clause which means if you have something in progress you will see NO IMPACT.

Still realistically future applicants could be looking at a delay of 1.5 years AFTER 4 years of enactment.

Even so, 3 years of added delay runs **in parallel** with regular GC processing which itself takes 2 years anyway, so real added delay would be in MONTHS!, Definitely not in decades for future immigrants from all countries! (contrast that with current 150 year wait time for Indians in the queue without the bill)!

MYTH 2. "US tech force will lose diversity"
IMPOSSIBLE:
- Employment category makes up a measly 10% of all green cards issued! (Cited below)
- Indians the largest beneficiary make up ~1% of US population. Even with all backlog cleared, their percentage can barely scratch 2%! (Sources cited below)
- These are existing people waiting in queue for decades, not newcomers so you can't destroy diversity with existing workforce.

MYTH 3. "Bill encourages Indians and Chinese to flood the system"
REALLY REALLY HARD: EB has merit based categories, multiple levels of scrutiny and more importantly forces employers to prove that local talent is unavailable for every new applicant. It is NOT like H1b where there is minimal scrutiny, no merit based categories and a pure lottery based allocation.
Moreover with this bill people will get mobility, making it harder to justify new alien hires. The reason it is so easy for body shops and H1b abusers today is because the backlog means folks waiting cannot qualify to apply to these new positions.

There is a very obvious side effect when folks move - TC goes up for ALL!!

Sources:
https://www.cato.org/blog/150-year-wait-indian-immigrants-advanced-degrees

https://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/employment-based-immigration

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Americans

-----------------------
TL,DR: S386/HR1044 CANNOT SCREW ANYONE!

197 VOTES SELECT ONLY ONE ANSWER
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TOP 455 Comments
  • Amazon 0x12h
    Myth 0: the backlog is linear.
    FALSE! Once Indian knows there is GC giveaway by s386, there will be another 2 million Indians in the line during that 3 years. :)

    And pls don’t put Chinese in your post. They are against it.
    Sep 21 43
  • Amazon
    buffChikos

    Amazon

    BIO
    Yo-yo Chen
    buffChikosmore
    Very well written. Thanks, OP. This was enlightening.
    Sep 21 61
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      Nike guy also keeps saying “MC” and “BC”. I’m American but I spent a lot of time working with Indian consultants so I know what those mean.

      Nike guy is a disgusting person. But also hides behind Hindi insults because he is a coward.

      FB is a racist piece of shit, but this Nike guy is on another level. He makes FB look like an angel 😂
      Sep 21
    • Nike 🐁a$$
      @goog hooli how come you not know what it mean, BC. donot forget your roots though you got the backdoor GC with in months.
      Sep 21
    • Nike 🐁a$$
      @ama- true, that is the difference, he's here just for defamation and troll.
      Sep 21
    • American Express vista133
      Yes we got GC in 12 months and that burns your ass Nike??
      Sep 21
    • American Express vista133
      Google, please let it go... You are obviously smarter than Nike. Who wouldn't be btw? Dont waiste your time and have a wonderful weekend good man!
      Sep 21
  • LinkedIn KHYA24
    We all know what Indians did to flood the IT system with ICC companies transporting people from abroad. Right now the number waiting in the line is not exceedingly high (which is really high already) is because Indian people saw it took too long to get in the US through this option. If the bill gets passed, there will be tremendous amount of Indian people starting to apply for US working visa this way and flood the IT industry. It is IT industry being flooded first, and then all other high paid industries would be next. It will be an end for other ethnicities.
    Sep 21 24
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      Looks fine to me and it clearly shows the impact of S386 in the coming years if it passes. What is exactly you do not understand?
      Sep 23
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      I never heard where that came from!
      If it is legit why fear?!
      Sep 23
    • Amazon
      BuffChikos

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      BuffChikosmore
      What do each axis represent? What are the units of measure? What is the baseline? What is the source of this data? What does transition period mean? What narrative are you trying to weave? This seems like a 5th grader came with a chart
      Sep 23
    • Microsoft FallBack
      KHYA, You are thinking middle eastern. Your worst dream is already true in the medical system just that the Middle easterners are already doing it.
      Check out Cleveland clinic. Mt Sinai in Minneapolis. Here how it goes:

      Rich Arab has hemorrhoids and gets it fixed at Cleveland clinic. Next he offers $$$ to the hospital which they obviously don't refuse. In exchange a few middle eastern or Pakistani doctors get to study there.
      When internal opportunities come up, a couple get picked. This continues for a few years. Before you know one of them is in a position of power. Then you see Cleveland clinic is full of Arab/Pakistani doctors.
      The hospital has tough choices to make 1) to pick up battle with them or 2) shutup for the Arab oil $$$
      Also true wherever you find doctors belonging to the Ummah.
      Sep 23
    • Amazon
      BuffChikos

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      BuffChikosmore
      🤣
      Sep 23
  • Everyone is a hypocrite.. people who show so much affection to illegal immigration and shower so much hatred on conservatives will shit on legal immigration one of the highest tax paying group! And people who want to build that wall and keep ranting come the right way get in line don’t even know how broken the line is! All those who are against removal of country cap I have a question for them - If you go to a movie theater to buy tickets or Disney world or Starbucks to get coffee and you are asked to stand in line based on your country of birth and are not allowed to go on another counter even though there is no line there because there aren’t any people from that country getting coffee would that be okay with you????? Next time imagine if you are made to stand in line based on your country of birth anywhere how ridiculous it is!!! Why should H1 be any different !
    Sep 21 31
  • Spotify Atinlay3
    Are you Indian?
    Sep 21 10
    • Spotify Atinlay3
      ”Here’s a link, don’t think!”
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Yes don't even click on the link just check out the title of the link if you have elementary reading ability, the 150-years should be readable?
      Or am I expecting too much? 🙄
      Sep 21
    • Spotify Atinlay3
      Are you okay? I said that referring to some random article in hopes of validating your view of the world is stupid.
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Point taken. Peace? Nah still Keen on insulting! 😔
      Sep 21
    • Microsoft YVap10
      150 years is not exaggeration. 10 years is for those with a priority date of 2011. The wait increases exponentially, for those who applied in the last couple of years it's 150 years.
      Sep 25
  • Tesla lambdaq
    1. You’re not right. It’s easy to calculate. Current backlog is around 10 years. Indians get on average 70-75% of all h1s which leads you to about 600k people in backlog. You can easy multiple this by factor of 3 (wife plus one kid). So we’re looking for at least 1.5 million potential permanent residents. USCIS allocate only 120k visas every year for all eb categories, even if you get 100k it will take 12-15 years to clean up the backlog.

    2. Yes, it will lose. I only see Indians in tech and it’s not because you’re great. Just because you’re cheaper. The whole bill is sponsored by big tech.

    3. Yes, it encourages INDIANS to flood the system. Also this visa can be granted to any alien residing outside of the US. Eb visa has nothing to do with h1. It can be sponsored remotely thought the same process.

    Stop your propaganda.
    Sep 21 14
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Flagged by the community.

    • Flagged by the community.

    • Facebook / Eng REPW86
      Indian just learnt how to google translate, nice
      Sep 21
    • Amazon
      风貌

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      风貌more
      No.
      Sep 21
  • Facebook / Eng REPW86
    Bill encourage Indian and Chinese flood the system - Chinese are not flooding the system. Indian friend please stop buck us in. I know Indian vs ROW doesn’t look good, but we don’t want to fight with you
    Sep 21 3
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Er.. did you even realize that's the MYTH I am trying to bust?!
      Sep 21
    • Facebook / Eng REPW86
      Can you read?
      Sep 21
    • Dude Chinese flooded the eb5 system and were responsible for creating a housing market bubble on the west coast! Just that Americans are not that educated about eb5 so don’t think of it much !
      Sep 21
  • Amgen nicorobo
    A simple logic. If this bill doesn’t benefit Indians why are they the only ones advocate for it? We want diversity here in the US. The country cap is there to ensure the people from other countries with smaller populations don’t get flooded out by a big pool of Indians already in the queue of the GC line. Not to mention that a high percentage of them are unqualified h1 workers bringing in through a loophole by those Indian IT consulting firms. How is this fair?
    Sep 21 13
    • Amgen nicorobo
      The loopholes give unqualified Indians h1 -> the current GC line based on country cap prevent more of them from getting GCs -> if no country cap, all those unqualified Indians with h1 are in front of the line -> how do we ensure talents from other countries get GCs following years after this bill pass? It’s not just about tech industry. People in other occupations get GCs too.
      Sep 21
    • Amgen nicorobo
      I know it’s unfair for the true Indian talents to be waiting behind those unqualified people, but passing this bill will only make the situation worse as a whole. I’m standing from the aspect of an American.
      Sep 21
    • Amgen nicorobo
      I surely hope the government do something about the situation but this bill is not the answer.
      Sep 21
    • Let’s also not forget these loopholes were overlooked intentionally for financial gains of US by US. So the blame goes not only on consultancies but also American companies wanting quick tech workers. Blame goes both ways. I understand your concern as it is a concern for many Indians impacted by these loopholes but who are we to judge who is deserving and who is not. Let market forces decide that. Isn’t that the true nature of a capitalist economy?
      Sep 21
    • Amgen nicorobo
      I agree with the first part of your statement and I see where you are coming from. However, since it is US law we are talking about here, the focus should be on how this bill helps America bring in true talents. Passing this bill will not get rid of the unqualified Indian h1 holders and will actually make it harder to bring in true talents for years to come. Like I said before, I agree that the government should do something to identify the true Indian talents instead of having them wait in line, but this bill is not the answer.
      Sep 21
  • Facebook / Eng REPW86
    Confirmed Indians very good at typing
    Sep 21 13
    • Nike 🐁a$$
      so now, you're ashamed of your profession. I'm a halal customer though, get me a pound ready.
      Sep 21
    • +1 Shame on you @Nike

      Don’t make fun of people who work hard to make a living. You seemed dissed people eating halal meat, cleaners, Maps operators and drivers in different thread.

      Sad.

      That’s why this country needs to have a higher bar for GC to filter out some people
      Sep 21
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @Nike

      You’re not even making any sense. Google is now in the halal meat business? Are you that dumb? 😂

      Or maybe the lack of food is getting to your head. My offer still stands on 🍕 but if it’s halal meat you want, then we can arrange something like that as well.

      You also keep mentioning food stamps. I’m sorry about your food situation. I really don’t want you and your children going hungry so let me know how I can help.
      Sep 21
    • Nike 🐁a$$
      @uber mountains, I was just responding to an arrogant brat, get back to work now, if not laid off already.
      Sep 21
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @Nike

      Well, you’re certainly making a lot of friends here 😂

      My offer of real food still stands. I am worried about your mental state after you started repeating 🐀 and 🇮🇷 in other threads.

      Help me help you, friend.
      Sep 21
  • Amazon
    colonel

    Amazon

    PRE
    IBM, Cisco, Microsoft
    colonelmore
    It's surprising how people from ROW are immune to Indian wait times. Each time we are interrogated at port of entries like some illegal immigrants. I guess people don't empathize cause they never experienced it. Also what's interesting is who ever is opposing in blind is bringing up the concern for future applicants instead of themselves and Indians already in the wait queue for decades. You have Google and Microsoft CEOs from India but when it comes to exploiting cheap Indian labor US immigration system isn't any different than the middle east.
    Sep 25 24
    • T-Mobile / Other
      Bokeh

      T-Mobile Other

      PRE
      Infosys
      BIO
      New here
      Bokehmore
      Loophole #1 when I was in school , I was reached out by at least 30-40 companies that they can file multiple H1B’s through their sisters companies which will increase the probability to get through the lottery (also I had Masters quota)
      Anyways these same people told me the minute I get my H1 approved they can start the GC process right away.

      Assuming I have 0 skills, they will fake the interview to get me a job..put bogus multiple H1 applications each year until I get picked/approved (considering the happy path here) and then file GC for me ; which with this so called fairness bill help me get it in 2-3 years and I don’t have any skill...Forget about highly skilled immigrants.
      Sep 26
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      H1b and GC are different things. H1b is easy to abuse (no recruiting, minimal scrutiny, just 1 dept to fool)
      GC is a far more difficult game. Everyone from dept of labor to IRS to DMV have to give you a clean bill. Just because this process happens in the background and isn't directly visible to candidates doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
      Is it possible to game all these departments that do background checks? Possible but definitely not easy and not as common as one might think.
      Sep 27
    • Symantec NGge16
      @New: I do hope that this selfish, unfair bill is dead, but like any zombie, one has to be sure. Hence the Double Tap.

      It's sad for you that you cannot accept that people disagree and cut throught the lies and smoke screens and resort to name calling.

      "Cursed me several times over". LOL. Grow up.
      Sep 27
    • Microsoft holahola
      If those Indians didn’t use H1b first to get job experience, how can they apply for green card? It’s related. So we need to remove all those people from ICC in the green card queue
      Sep 29
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Everyone (esp Indians) would like H1b abuse to end. No human wants to be a slave with no mobility. But once S386 is gone row won't give a damn about H1b abuse. Here they are somehow spooked into thinking that this bill with affect them so all this opposition and shouting. Check out later you won't hear the tiniest whimper about eliminating abuse.
      Rather fight the abuse problem as part of this bill not as a precondition. That's the only way something will get done. At least you won't continue to screw up backlogged folks in the meantime.
      Sep 29
  • Cisco shitttttt
    Who cares! Didn't even read the shit long post. US doesn't care about Indians working for them.
    Sep 21 5
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      And I totally love your comment! They should not! No one should care about the country of the worker.
      You got the gist of the bill without reading!!
      Sep 21
    • Cisco shitttttt
      Awesome!! But, why is it only Indians who worry and post these 'shit long' posts? Not that I care but do some self introspection.
      Sep 21
    • Amazon
      buffChikos

      Amazon

      BIO
      Yo-yo Chen
      buffChikosmore
      Haha! You turned a racist response into a positive message! 😂good one
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      🤷🏻‍♂️I have seen so much racism elsewhere but this comment from Cisco seemed to convey what I have been trying to say so simply, I did not find it racist at all!!
      @cisco Indians care because they won't get a green card as of today in their lifetime.
      Sep 21
    • Cisco shitttttt
      I hardly believe more than half the Indian techies deserve. But, whatever! I know a lot of them who cheated their way through the system and they proudly discuss about it.
      Sep 21
  • Uber 1455_ma
    I do hope we have more IIT type of talents in the US, we should give them GC ASAP.

    However, ICC visa abusers, sorry
    Sep 21 13
    • New nocows
      @hooli.xyz
      But your boss is from one of the IIT's. 😎
      Sep 26
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      You are forgetting he also has MS from Stanford and MBA from Wharton.

      Lots of people graduate from mediocre schools like IIT and eventually get into good schools like Stanford and Wharton via hard work and dedication.

      I have great respect for him for not letting his mediocre bachelor’s degree hold him back.
      Sep 26
    • New nocows
      @hooli.xyz
      I think if you count IIT specifically as schools and what value they provide I feel you are very correct, they have below average research, infrastructure, teaching faculties, international students, etc.
      But I feel their MSP is their top undergrad students (top 20% of that or so). They after their Bachelors are easily able to get into top 20 US universities with ease for graduate studies. And when they get that kind of education, they mostly excel by hard work in the US as it offers plenty of opportunities.

      This was the thing until early 2000's when top IIT grads used to come to US for graduate degrees and work hard in their jobs. Even a House Resolution recognized the contributions by Indian-Americans from IIT's [1].

      All was good until visa fraud by ICC started. These people are really even by Indian standards cheap workers. Also ICC's are banned in IIT's for placements for their entry level roles due to their abysmally low salary packages. Actually IIT CS grads get placed with more than 8 times the salary of average Indian CS grads.

      Now due to ICC's even top Indian engineers have to wait.

      All in all I don't think people from IIT's are at all mediocre.
      Source: [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/house-resolution/227/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22iit%22%5D%7D&r=2&s=2
      Sep 27
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @nocows

      Thanks for the detailed response and great link. That explains a lot and I have new information now to learn🙂
      Sep 27
  • Oracle Embarcoder
    This guy was schooled 2 days back with the correct figures, and sources and links to how they arrived at the 10-year calculation. Yet he goes and starts another post with his BS.
    Sep 21 10
    • Microsoft llfunfunf
      Alright, now I think VMware has issue on reading comprehension. I guess you are one of those shipped from India consulting firms without passing GRE. Maybe try to read better so you can really understand what people are talking about and doing in USA.
      Sep 21
    • Facebook / Eng REPW86
      Typical Indian BS, cake is still that big, Indians take all of it, and IT DOES NOT HURT ANYONE!
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      I can't read the comment above - had to block the guy based on requests. Did not know that blind allows blocked users to post on the original users topic, defeating the whole point of blocking offensive trollers.
      Sep 21
    • Microsoft llfunfunf
      See, Indians just can’t have constructive debate with different opinions and try to block those to speak, how pathetic. Now you know why ROW don’t want you dominant the industry
      Sep 22
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      How do I unblock him?
      Sep 22
  • Microsoft HqoA11
    OP, i have a question and would like you to answer it honestly: Let’s say the cap is gone. What would stop Indian consultancy companies from flooding GC process with perm and i140s using the same tricks that they use for H1B? Then all the EB1, EB2, NIW, EB3 would be privately owned by those companies. Do you honestly think this would be fair? Think about a Stanford PhD grad needing to wait forever behind a programmer that lives in India and never have been to US. I want you to be honest. I don’t see any barriers against this happening, and hence, it will happen.
    Sep 21 10
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      The folks who care about the bill do know what it does and what it means.

      The folks who oppose the bill have been spinning one fake news after the other. It started from one of them (that eb2 is in danger and so on).. I am not surprised that they keep spinning more lies as the bill gets closer to finish line.
      Sep 22
    • New ObBH61
      I don't get the premise of your question - you are asking Indians to fix a broken immigration system while asking them to not do anything about an attempt to fix it at the same time?!
      (mind-xplosion!)
      Sep 23
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      Any fixes that anyone does cannot take away their God given right to get GC in less than a year. It's worse than taking away gun from 2a defender.
      All the while, these same people will preach to you GC is a privilege not right. So please have one more mind explosion for me please 😀
      Sep 23
    • Microsoft HqoA11
      I asked a simple question and am getting some nonsense replies. Please read the question before pasting your answers.
      Sep 24
    • Google / Mgmt hoopla.xyz
      I answered it - s386 has Grassley amendment. It destroys ICC through audits. Hope this helps.
      Sep 24
  • Wayfair riPl21
    Please don't group Chinese as S386/HR1044 supporters. I am ethnically Chinese but US citizen, most of the conversation that I observed, Chinese are heavily against this. They are contented with following the rule and waiting for their turn because they understand they are under someone else's roof. Same could not be said for our Indian friends as demonstrated by the ICC Visa Abusers.
    Sep 21 9
    • New ObBH61
      If the wait time is non-zero then Chinese are beneficiaries of a bill that reduces the wait time to zero. Seems simple enough. Why are you Chinese people so worked up about it?
      Sep 23
    • Symantec NGge16
      The wait time for Chinese will go from 3-4 years to 10+ years. That is why Chinese people are worked up about it. They will get screwed just like anyone else who isn't Indian. This is a bill pushed for the sole benefit of Indians. Of course everyone else hates it.
      Sep 24
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Backlogged Indians will benefit initially. After backlog clears in a few years everyone is treated the same. So why should only Indians support this bill?
      Sep 24
    • Amazon kfhjfhvc
      “In a few years” — the uncertainty is more of a risk to those people. Who knows what is going to change in a few years. But it’s certain that Indian will benefit from the very first beginning.
      Sep 24
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      @amazon so you do agree that we are just talking about a temporary delay? Why not scroll up read point 1 above? A delay in a few months is what folks will really experience.
      Sep 24
  • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
    You knew the risks getting in. And now, that you did not need the warnings you want the rules changed. It not even talking about non-nationals influencing US politics.
    Sep 21 9
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      That's today genius! I came to this country 14 years ago and my priority date is 2011 because at that time I never saw an urgency to file a GC petition. I don't even remember what the wait time was back then but it sure as hell wasn't as bad as it is today.
      Why should I have to wait decades? Please explain!
      Sep 21
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      For the very simple reason is that US does not owe you anything. Nor did they conspire against you specifically. The rules and laws did not change between 2011 and now either. The volume of Indian newcomers ballooned though (that why you will wait decades).
      You said yourself that you had an earlier option but missed it. Sorry to be blunt but you messed up bad.
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Well the country does not owe immigrants from rest of the world either!
      It can happily choose to only admit Indians and no one should say a thing! Why are folks opposing this bill then?
      BTW, the intent of my post wasn't to take sides (note that I do not scream on the top of my lungs on what everyone should do anywhere in this post!) -
      My intent was only to clear up some very glaring misinformation and falsehood aka MYTHs that is floating about this issue.
      I kinda thought, hey if evil people are having fun spooking everyone, let me have my fun throwing facts and truths.
      Sep 21
    • Oracle Embarcoder
      You have been in this country for 14 years and you did not know about the 3 main eb categories ? I find that very hard to believe, in fact you are deliberately trying to deceive people, or you are plain stupid either way nobody should give up their place in line for you.

      you don’t want to accept expert option despite being presented to you multiple times by multiple parties. You seem to lack basic cognition skills. For instance folks had to explain to you multiple times that there are 3 independent categories with different qualification criteria, very evident in the Link that you posted !! How do u think they arrived at the 150 year calculation ?? Ever think about that? It’s the exact same math dum dum.

      People like you convince me to fight harder for the other side because I truly believe you will not make a good American . You are here simply because you abused your country of birth privilege, prolly latched on to an ICC to get here, I can pretty much guarantee you are only employed because of Indian cronyism and nepotism .
      Sep 21
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Lol! Mr troller again. Not a shred of info in your comment. Those who know to read will find that the Cato link includes everyone from EB1 to EB5 in their computation of a 150 year wait time.
      Sep 21
  • Symantec NGge16
    I think people should take a step back and consider what the intent of U.S. immigration policy is. This policy is not intended to help people from other countries, with the exception of asylum intake. When it does, that's simply a happy side effect. The policy is to build a stronger country. Smart policymakers understand that diversity encourages strength in a free society (some countries have decided that a monoculture is the path to strength). The country caps are a mechanism to ensure there is diversity in the immigration intake.

    Also, when you talk about "fairness" or "empathy", you're looking at it from one perspective. One could construct a "fairness/empathy" argument that shuts down all employment immigration from India and replaces that quota with employment immigration from war-ravaged countries in Africa, the Middle East, etc., because those people have a much worse life than Indian immigration hopefuls and are thus more worthy of help. I'm sure there are more skilled workers in those countries than our immigration quotas.

    Finally, just because a policy is inconvenient for you, it doesn't mean it's unfair. Anyone who comes here should understand that they will be living in uncertainty unless and until they get their GC. People who are uncomfortable with this uncertainty should consider whether they should take this gamble. The fact that waiting times have increased is not some unfair "changing of the rules", it's just part of that uncertainty. It also shouldn't come as a huge surprise, since that's been the trend for a long time. Some people were just betting that the waiting times would not blow out so much before they got their GC.

    If you want a pragmatic approach to solving the backlog problem where skilled Indians have to wait for decades, then support a law which imposes government run apititude/skill tests for GC applicants (and H1B applicants), and permantently reject those who don't pass (i.e. no hope of GC, must leave when H1B visa expires). This ensures that the system is fair for all those skilled workers who didn't game the system.

    Speaking as an American, I support diverse, skilled immigration. It will make our country stronger. Hence I want country caps. I would be fine with temporarily increasing the total GCs issued to quickly process the backlog if all those people had IQ >= 110, regardless of where they come from, so that we can clean up the backlog which leaves Indians in limbo for decades. I don't want to see people suffer. I also don't want to reward people who gamed the system, nor do I want to admit people through "skilled employment" if their skills are low.
    Sep 21 17
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
      Ah diversity! So that's what this is all about!? So how do you define "diversity" -- racial, cultural, lingusitic, religious? Do you have one single scientific metric to measure "diversity"?

      India is already more diverse than the whole of Europe, so WTF subjecting 1.3 billion people to the same cap as 300k from Iceland. If diversity is so important, then entire EU+Australia should be under one cap, entire Arab world under one, Southern Africa under one, and Latino world under one. Oh, then what do you do about the Nazis that fled to Argentina? 🤔

      Maybe it is time to accept that it is not the fault of Indians their forefathers learnt to stay united despite cultural and religious differences, while Europeans and Middle Easterners kept dividing themselves into little fiefdoms, and still keep doing it to this day.
      Sep 24
    • Symantec NGge16
      Diversity by country is a good enough approximation for this issue. If you want to work around the country caps, split up your country. Working aroud U.S. immigration rules seems to be a common in India, so best of luck with that.

      You're being ridiculous.
      Sep 25
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
      Haha, you are funny man. Or may be you are just a dumdum on Blind.

      Sure there is a lot of difference between Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Or amongst the Nordic countries. Right, genius?

      What do you have say about EU already functioning as a semi-federalist union -- except for the 4 major NATO powers, they don't even have their full-fledged defense organizations. Or the Arab world functioning as an OPEC cartel. How much difference is there really there between the 100 Arab nations?

      Which country are you from? I am very curious to find out 😊😊
      Sep 25
    • Symantec NGge16
      Wars have been fought in Europe about forced unification. Arab nations have been known to fight amongst each other too.

      Whatever. I just don't want a country of 1.3 billion people swamping our immigration system. I want immigration intake to be spread across the world. Per country caps serve as a good enough approximation for that. I also don't want to reward hordes of low-skilled cheaters with a GC. It's repugnant and it will encourage more to do this, making the problem 10x worse.

      I'm an American.

      P.S. Classy move, making personal insults. A common tactic when your argument is weak.
      Sep 26
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D “...”
      Do I not want the GC cheaters out? And I also realize a lot of those are Indians.

      But at the moment, the point is on "diversity". And your assertion that "country" is an approximation of "diversity" is totally wrong. So what if Europeans and Arabs keep dividing? They are essentially the same people ethnically and culturally.

      You need to hit the books on India. There are Indians that look like Europeans, others like Chinese and yet others like Africans. There are at least 15 different languages in India, each one with its own script. In the 1700s, India used to be 500+ individual kingdoms. It's only recently, that Indians have come under the umbrella of one country. You will be extremely naive to think there are no inter-cultural conflicts in the modern-day India. Sure mass media has helped create some homogeneity in modern India, but the same applies to Europe+North America as well.

      Where do you think the Europe is headed with EU? Hypothetically, let's assume Europe becomes one country in 20 years (at least that's what their leaders are hoping for), would you subject all 750 million Europeans to a 7% cap? That would not make sense to me either.

      Finally, it will serve the US a lot better if it bases immigration policy on "individual" rather than some arcane idea like "diversity" or "country". Most EB immigrants are coming here because they want to live and be successful in this country; country of birth is not that important to them that's why they left to begin with. Merit-based reform with no country caps is the only sensible policy.

      ps: I am unaffected by any of this

      pps: if you want me to treat you with respect, don't come out calling me ridiculous. I appreciate decent respectable conversations even if their views are totally opposite to mine, but have low tolerance for jerks.
      Sep 26
  • Amazon
    colonel

    Amazon

    PRE
    IBM, Cisco, Microsoft
    colonelmore
    Thanks for a well researched article. There are many myths about HR1044/S386. The primary one being ROWs wait time will be delayed by 10 years whereas in reality it will be 2 years instead. Also those who don’t support HR1044, try to get the asymmetry in the argument. USCIS doesn’t care about you country of birth when it comes to handing out H1Bs. However, when it comes to permanent residence process it comes into the equation and blocks primarily Indians for decades. If H1B lottery took country into account, that would make the decision a lot easier for Indians who would immigrate to Canada, Europe et al or go back home if they do not get an H1B. The diversity argument is shit as H1B is a skilled visa based purely on merit. Diversity visa is a completely separate visa that is unaffected with this bill. If diversity is the argument, why exploit skilled Indians for decades to not give them a permanent residence? A professional contributes to the society from their ages say 25-65 if a wait is more than 40 years (as it is for EB2 and EB3 applicants from india now) it means these people have no home for the entirety of their professional career and are interrogated at port of entries even though they are culturally Americans. Note all of these are immigrants who have come to us legally. Imagine you go through education, complete your undergrad, grad school, in some cases even PhD and work for a US organization for 6 years (maximum you can work before beginning the permanent residence) only to realize your degrees are worthless as the place you are born is the sole determining factor for your permanent residence. The real lobby is allowing H1Bs to be handed out to everyone (70% being Indians) instead of curtailing to only those citizens whose permanent residence process can be completed in their lifetime.
    Yes I am an Indian.
    Sep 21 3
    • Very well articulated
      Sep 21
    • Uber 1455_ma
      Again, totally support giving GC to the PhD who worked here 6 years, he/she deserves it.

      But don’t mix great Indian talents (from top schools or work at top companies) with those abusers at ICC
      Sep 21
    • Amazon
      colonel

      Amazon

      PRE
      IBM, Cisco, Microsoft
      colonelmore
      Yes the abuse happened as a consequence of the lobbying around handing out H1Bs freely. How and why draw the line only for PHDs. Why can an undergrad from say Romania get their GC immediately after joining a US firm after receiving an H1B while an Indian from even an American undergrad or grad school have to wait for decades. Should they be given a not allowed card because the wait is long for them and US immigration can't handle them. I understand there are abusers, my point is there's no easy way to flag them except what the Trump administration is trying to do with the RFEs.
      Sep 21
  • Spotify Atinlay3
    OP is going crazy over comments that provide factual evidence against his or her worldview. When someone agrees with him/her, he/she praises them for being civil 😂
    Sep 23 4
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Well so far this post has received No factual evidence against my evidence, only insults and desperate name calling.
      Sep 23
    • Spotify Atinlay3
      First one is the message above this one and you didn’t even bother to reply
      Sep 23
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Well that is YOUR opinion, where is the fact to nullify my evidence?
      FYI I posted just 3 links and do not see a single contradicting evidence.
      For eg, I said,
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Americans#Demographics
      Indians make up less than 1% of USA, so I call BS on all posts that claim diversity will be destroyed by this bill.
      Show me I am wrong.
      I challenge you!!
      Sep 23
    • New ObBH61
      I did not read the comments.. the yada yada was way too long. But the basic things OP's post is talking about checks out fine.
      Sep 23
  • Uber / Product twisties
    USA is a melting pot and diversity is a huge plus. Let’s not turn it into little India.
    Sep 21 3
    • VMware / Eng anonym🌴🌱
      OP
      Dude read the post. Indians make up 0.97% of American population as per census. With all backlog clearer even over 10years they will be well under 2% of American population.
      Do you know how small 0.97% is?!?
      Or is your claim that the census is wrong?!
      Sep 21
    • Uber / Product twisties
      F that. In Bay Area is all Indians. We need diversity
      Sep 21
    • Amazon yes-sir
      @Twisties, what according to you is diversity ? Just the name of the country on the passport , ethnicity ?
      Sep 21

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