Senior EM at Apple vs. M0 at Facebook

Twitter lOGo46
Aug 21, 2018 16 Comments

Received a Senior EM offer from Apple and M0 offer from Facebook. Did not do very well on technical portions in Facebook interviews and was told I was not technically strong enough to make M1 at Facebook. Was told M0 is a TL / EM role with management responsibilities but with some restrictions (seniority make up of team and types of technical decisions). I’d be coming in from EM role at another top tech company.

Don’t know much about leveling at either company. How do these levels compare, in particular for engineering / people leadership career prospects? Also, how bad is it to come in as M0 at Facebook?

Any other advice on relative benefits of Apple vs. Facebook for engineering leadership career growth much appreciated!

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TOP 16 Comments
  • Apple / Eng cho Chang
    What is the Apple senior EM level? M2? M3? The levels match up like this:
    Fb M0 = Apple M1
    Fb M1 = Apple M2
    Fb M2 = Apple M3

    If Apple matches/exceeds ur fb comp, i would suggest going with Apple, for the higher manager level. The companies are pretty similar in that they each have 3 levels of managers, then 2 levels of directors, etc.
    Aug 21, 2018 2
    • Twitter lOGo46
      OP
      Thanks. Apple EM level is M3. Unfortunately Apple comp is much lower than Facebook, but team / work is more interesting.
      Aug 21, 2018
    • Apple / Eng cho Chang
      Mind sharing the breakdowns? 🙏🏿 Also it depends on ur priorities.. if u wanna reach director, Apple may be better because u only have to climb 1 level, whereas at fb u need to climb 3 levels.

      Also, how long are u planning on staying there? One thing to keep in mind is that fb’s initial RSU grant is usually 4x the target annual refresher amount or higher, whereas apple’s initial grant is usually just the target refresher amount itself (they don’t want u to fall off a cliff after 4 years). So if you’re planning on sticking around for more than a couple years, then apple’s M3 refreshers would increase ur TC significantly compared to fb’s M0 (or even M1) refreshers.
      Aug 21, 2018
  • Facebook vkd7kd
    How can apple M3 comp be lower than fb M0? Can you share offer TC?
    Aug 21, 2018 0
  • Facebook ScubaDiver
    This feels a little off from the FB side. M0s tend to have a high technical contribution but are still getting legs as a manager. In your case it sounds like the reverse might be true?

    It’s not bad to be an M0 (I was one) but I’m surprised we’re actively hiring them too. Generally we prefer E6/M1 managers.

    Source: I was an M0, took 9 months to get to M1.
    Aug 21, 2018 0
  • Facebook / Eng NopeNope!
    Sounds very strange, we don’t do M0 outside hires. Sure it wasn’t E5 with a path to transition?
    Aug 21, 2018 4
    • Facebook ScubaDiver
      I’m guessing this is the case. OP should confirm with the recruiter.
      Aug 21, 2018
    • Twitter lOGo46
      OP
      Positive. Recruiter also mentioned M0 is typically only for internal promos, but this was a special case.
      Aug 21, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng NopeNope!
      M0 isn’t a terminal level, it’s up-or-out. Strange scenario.
      Aug 21, 2018
    • Facebook bfcc
      Hired people into M0 positions years ago. We do it for externals, likely really rare.
      Aug 21, 2018
  • Salesforce ozEK82
    Look at which offer has bigger scope aka bigger team size and bigger responsibility. It’s very hard to get big scope and responsibility as higher you go more risk averse companies are. So anyone willing to take a bet on you for bigger responsibility counts for a lot (much more than TC). Once you get experience with expanded responsibility you can always switch for higher TC+ higher levels..IMHO scope >>>>TC
    Aug 21, 2018 0
  • Apple / Eng Bias4Actio
    Share the comp breakdown from both or GTFO
    Aug 21, 2018 0
  • Lyft / Eng CptnTendie
    YoE as both an IC and an EM? M0 is usually only for internal promos
    Aug 21, 2018 1
    • Twitter lOGo46
      OP
      8 as IC, 3 as EM
      Aug 21, 2018
  • Apple / Eng
    Rijdi837sj

    Apple Eng

    PRE
    Google, Netflix
    Rijdi837sjmore
    Offer numbers!
    Aug 21, 2018 0
  • Nvidia / Other Turing ⚡
    What's your total YoE/ manager YoE ? Can you please share breakdown of numbers ? What were you asked in interview ? (Coding /system design etc)
    Aug 21, 2018 0