Sexism in Apple

Apple bRrK87
Aug 4, 2018 273 Comments

I have to raise my voice here, in SWE, one of my previous group, guys are bully towards me. I am a female experienced engineer. I reported to HR, then HR covered them. And point the finger to me. Classic backlash of meToo movement. I also report sexual harassment in this group before. When out for team lunch, a guy referred at the food I ordered as male’s body part. Then all the retaliation came from his male friends in the group. The manager purposely ask me to use illegal content or unreleased photo to do my work or upload to social media, to try to get me fired! I reported to HR, they again cover up for the manager, saying he just learning... hello, leak is criminal in Apple now, and Apple obviously help to manager to get me into trouble. Horrible story right? And it is true and it happens in Apple now!

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TOP 273 Comments
  • Amazon Planck
    Going to HR over a crude joke about what a food item looks like seems over the top. That is not a metoo moment. If somebody makes an offcolor joke, you politely ask them to stop. If they keep doing it, then you go to HR. By overusing HR you end up looking like the woman who cried wolf, so to speak. Not defending the targeting and the rest, but it certainly sounds like there is more to this story than you being harassed.
    Aug 4, 2018 6
    • Glooko / Other nfg
      Someone offers solid feedback and this is how you respond? This thread is done.
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Apple bRrK87
      OP
      I am glad you are done!!!
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Twitter / Eng
      Lolly

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Lollymore
      Given OP’s amazing grammar and response to this thoughtful feedback - I think they’re just trolling here. +1 to the Amazon comment above - going to HR for a crude joke is about the dumbest idea ever. Also, your manager asking you to post something leaked on social media is not sexual harassment the last time I checked. If you involve HR for every little thing and post stuff like this crying MeToo - genuine victims’ voices will be drowned.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      waaAAAaah

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      waaAAAaahmore
      To be honest, in Amazon training they specifically suggest that you contact HR over crude jokes. So, maybe it depends on where you came from too.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Verizon Digital Media Services bHVi18b0d3
      Crude jokes are unnecessary & unprofessional. Keep that in playground conversations outside of work setting.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • Males are fragile. Someone calls op a BITCH and when she stands up for herself she's "over reacting". Someone else says sexual harrasment (and what she describes is actual bonafide sexual harrasment) and someoke mansplains sexual harrasment of women to her.

    All you men replying are fragile insecure gas lighters. 🙅‍♀️
    Aug 4, 2018 6
    • Glooko / Other nfg
      "You're a b!tch" "No, you're a b!tch and so is your mom" what are we, in elementary school still?
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Amazon Planck
      Disagreement about nature of a joke and appropriate reactions is not mansplaining. Your labeling of my post with that word is itself sexist.
      Aug 4, 2018
    • No, friend. Making dick jokes created a hostile work environment. She found it offensive, and everyone knows It's harrasment. That's the legal definition.

      And trying to say, you calling me out on sexism is sexism is the typical male fragility. Males go fragile because men don't like the idea of thinking they're bad actores, a sense of resentment
      ---
      As for the bitch comment, yeah, people call it. The point is that since ne calling was your immediate response instead of addressing her argument you lose already.
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng onMyWay
      Your premise relies on: “She found it offensive, and everyone knows It's harrasment. That's the legal definition.”

      We know that “everyone knows it’s harassment” is patently untrue, as has been demonstrated here. That leaves “she found it offensive” as the core requirement for the legal definition.

      If that’s the case, that one person need find anything offensive to institute legal accusations of harassment, hopefully you see why that might be a problem, and why the victims of real work place harassment suffer from snowflake-tier shit like this.

      You’re essentially saying that you and OP are able to make accusations, and no one is able to question any aspect of said accusations because that’d demonstrate “male fragility”.

      Which segways into the final problem, of assuming gender. Probably the worst sin of them all is to assume gender on the basis of anything other than the person’s confirmation of gender. I’m not sure who gave you the right to do such an extraordinary thing, but I wish you’d check your privilege at the door
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Google / Eng sgro
      > All you men replying are fragile insecure gas lighters.

      LOL, very mature. If you say something you are x and y. Flawless logic for a second grader.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    I think a lot of guys get offended here, right? We are women working in tech, not for your free entertainment or abuse.
    Aug 4, 2018 5
    • Amazon / Eng onMyWay
      Uhh what?
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Microsoft gVdh73
      Holy hell op. Get off your high horse.
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Twitter / Eng
      Buckss

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Buckssmore
      Someone bring OP her meds
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple / Eng JobsHand
      B1tches be trippin’
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Salesforce OooohBurn
      Cry me a river whiny bitch. OP is such a fuckin marshmallow.
      Aug 6, 2018
  • Glooko / Other nfg
    A couple thoughts. First, being targeted is never fun, that's unfortunate you had to experience that. Second, you seem to acknowledge going to HR quite frequently. HR's job is to minimize PR/legal damage, not to be punitive to offenders. Really should be considered last resort and not first course of action. It happens everywhere, so don't be surprised. Just be glad you're no longer on that team.
    Aug 4, 2018 10
    • Oracle dpkE40
      Sure they exist to protect the company. Why do you think I suggest the OP document EVERYTHING and be prepared to file a complaint? If HR won't do the right thing, make it a public problem for the company. But I'm the naive one, right?
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Uber / Eng
      @w@

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Capital One
      @w@more
      Yes, Because think it's bullshit. That's just standard operating procedure. Don't waste your energy protesting against a brick wall.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple / Eng aCrP17
      Says the Uber employee. Lol!
      Aug 6, 2018
    • SailPoint Technologies / Eng
      theCaptain

      SailPoint Technologies Eng

      PRE
      SmartThings, Amazon, Samsung America
      theCaptainmore
      @dpkE40 you’re completely oblivious to reality if you think HR will actually help the employee.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Lockheed Martin / Other
      Schz3

      Lockheed Martin Other

      PRE
      industrialoptic
      Schz3more
      HR is there to minimize liability. If a significant court settlement is in the cards, or threat of a potential successful multiple party suit if a story is repeated over and over, you can bet they will do something about that liability
      Aug 13, 2018
  • Tesla LEETCODER
    Op are you Indian?
    Aug 5, 2018 13
    • Apple Fsgs252
      She clearly has sense of humor, check out her comments in this thread, it’s just different: friendly joke/joking amongst anonymouses on Internet vs hostile joking from dudes who ganged up on her in work environment where you can’t escape it and gonna continue to work with them
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple Fsgs252
      Don’t be racist on my Apple sis!
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Intel / Eng pleb
      So she can say here "You deserve eat all the bananas from Walmart shelf for breakfast" but she couldn't take a banana-dick joke from those guys ? Why didn't she give them this line ?

      Letting aside the questionable humor on both sides, what's the most dissapointing is the lack of responsibility of their manager. He should have had a grown up discussion with the offenders and discipline them if they didn't get it.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Tesla LEETCODER
      Meh she is being a snowflake.
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Salesforce uTTA76
      LEETCODER plz.... you would say that. It's the definition of sexual harassment stop being a jerk
      Aug 7, 2018
  • Medtronic / Eng
    IHKL51

    Medtronic Eng

    PRE
    BAE Systems, Raytheon, The Walt Disney Company
    IHKL51more
    Coming to blind on this topic is like walking into a den of wolves and claiming you’re a bunny. I’m sorry you experienced what you did and that so many people here are giving you crap for it. The truth of the matter is that you should not have had to experience any of what you have at Apple or any workplace. Silicon Valley plays like they want women in the workforce, but 10 years of my life spent in Silicon Valley showed me that they really only want you there to have something pretty to look at or screw. If you want to be successful in that environment, you have to play the boys’ game of pretending not to be offended by anything you see or hear.

    HR will not help you. I know this from experience that HR only cares about covering the company’s ass and they will find any way to make the complaint go away by managing you out and saying it was because of your poor performance regardless if you performed perfectly.

    So, you have a decision to make. Is this company worth the shit you will have to wade through? Probably not. If you think it is, then unfortunately you have to play their game to get ahead and maybe if you get far enough up, you can institute some culture change. The other thing you can do is sue Apple. You probably have a valid case, but you may not win (Apple has more lawyers)...the best you will get is a settlement.

    Again, I’m truly sorry this has happened to you and it’s wrong on all levels. I hope I gave you some perspective on your next moves. There are better companies out there for women, you just won’t find any in Silicon Valley...you have to leave that toxic dump of a Valley to find a company that will treat you right and has a better culture for women to thrive in. I also encourage you to join the Society of Women Engineers, the women you meet there will help you deal with these kinds of issues and help you succeed in finding a better company to work for.
    Aug 5, 2018 11
    • Pinterest Sovi3t
      Oh bullshit. I'm sorry, 'basic sexual harassment' policy is 'thought/speech police' in a funny hat. (And speaking of all sweeping generalities - 'people in other industries' do actually feel restricted by such policies - as a former consultant, I've worked with a good variety of them.)

      It absolutely does impose on my speech if going 'hur, hur, banana dick' is an offense. Infantile? Sure. Harmful? No. And other industries could learn from software - one of the few places that the misfit, the weird, the non-'soulless cube dweller' is/was the rule, rather than the exception - and that partially due to its tolerance for 'doesn't matter if I don't like it, you do you'.

      Put differently, do you want to work in banking? In medical services? In manufacturing efficiency? All highly trained professions and all about as deadly boring as possible (with exceptions) - because they slowly bled anything like fun out of it (often for good reason). The other industries you speak of are so damn stuffy they're bad at hiring people with dyed hair - much less anything truly weird or unusual.

      Also, your final point is flawed for another reason: As a former founder, I would love to have an employment code of conduct that said 'Fuck off, don't take offense. Our corporate culture is have fun, build cool things, ain't no body got time for that shit. But don't get in the way of someone else building cool shit, either.' - but I cannot, because of snowflake-ist regulation. So no, it's not a condition of the company's code of conduct, it's a function of hyperactive harassment regulation that attempts to protect you from having a bad feeling.

      I admit I am clearly fighting a rear guard here. But hopefully by the time people like you and OP have 'taken offence' to the limit, we've found the next thing.
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Medtronic / Eng
      IHKL51

      Medtronic Eng

      PRE
      BAE Systems, Raytheon, The Walt Disney Company
      IHKL51more
      I’m so sorry, but your whole premise is ridiculously flawed and I don’t frankly care whether or not you were a Founder (so were lots of people). I find it hard to believe that anyone’s ability to innovate is restricted by their ability to make a dick joke. However, an inappropriate dick joke can be one small thing that contributes to a hostile culture towards women in the workplace, especially when it’s made at that woman’s expense. How well do you think she was able to innovate that day? Do you think people innovate best under a hostile work environment where sexual harassment is just fine and dandy?

      In my experience innovation happens the most when every team member is respected and feels safe enough to share their ideas about their work...not necessarily about their genitalia. Sure not everyone may be best friends, but when the team members have mutual respect for each others contributions, it brings a culture of innovation naturally.

      Note that this has nothing to do with physical appearances or whether or not you are a misfit. You can have and be all those things without creating a hostile work environment rampant with sexual harassment.

      Go ahead and create what you propose and see if it gets anywhere. People don’t perform to their best ability when they have to worry about what their coworkers are going to do or say to them next. When you have to worry about protecting yourself throughout the work day, you aren’t going to find the next thing...nor are you going to find it by hiring a bunch of people who think the same way you do. Innovation is more prolific in teams that are diverse in their make up. If you have the kind of culture you propose, you won’t have a very diverse workforce to bring out the innovation you need for that next thing or the thing after that.
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Pinterest Sovi3t
      See, you're half right. You're right, the best culture for productivity and happiness is one where people aren't on edge all day - and paths to that include at least (a) causing no offense and (b) not being offended. The problem with (a) is that someone is always offended, and (a) fosters a culture where taking offense is like falling down in football. I am offended by you, and I do not innovate best in the culture you want, where I have to police my speech diligently for fear of being sued or fired if someone takes offense. So should you be corrected or should I get over it? (Welcome to option (b), or hypocrisy, either way. Either you have to favour some forms of taken offense over others and exclude me (hypocrite - aren't you espousing maximal inclusion), or say that those offended by you should suck it up...which is where I started.)

      I wasn't saying 'Oo, I'm a Founder, lookit me!', just noting your point about 'well, you signed up for a corporate code of conduct' ignores that that code is shaped, if not nearly dictated here by forces beyond the corporation, and claiming authority on the subject as I've written one. Hell, I don't even capitalize the 'F'.

      Finally, environments that are intolerant and rigid crushers of heresy and diseent (like political correctness) tend to eventually become that which they claim to oppose - totalitarian. So yes, today you come for the dick jokes and yes, that's trivial, in the end, but granting you and those who agree with you the authority to fire and censure when you take offense - I have no reason to believe you'll stop at dick jokes. As you observed, norms changed significantly over the last decades, and I expect they will continue to. So I cannot trust in your taste - it's known to become anachronistic (at best) and much worse.
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Pinterest Sovi3t
      Put more tartly - I find it hard to believe anyone's power to innovate should be hampered by a penis joke. It probably wasn't that strong an innovation if that's all it took to kill.
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Lockheed Martin / Other
      Schz3

      Lockheed Martin Other

      PRE
      industrialoptic
      Schz3more
      We do not put up with that crap at Lockheed. That is a place where managers and HR do take action. Is it completely fair to women? No. I have seen brilliant women engineers take far too long for their promotions, and I have heard some questionable comments from some of the older men, but it is not widespread and it is better than it was 20 years ago. Heck, Vance Coffman’s replacement as CEO a few years back was given the boot just a month or two before he would have taken control. His mistake ? He had what looked like a consensual relationship with a subordinate. We are not perfect, but there are places that treat people better than what OP describes and about what many here say “suck it up; that is life.”
      Aug 13, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng onMyWay
    🤔
    Aug 4, 2018 0
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Apple bRrK87
      OP
      You should be kicked out from this board just because of your manner!!!
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Glooko / Other nfg
      Amazon comment was harsh but your response sort of confirms...
      Aug 4, 2018
    • Amazon Podangha
      At Apple, the other day my coworker( woman) who I went to lunch with, made fun at the food I ordered as male’s body part. It was a banana. Hear my sob story and let me cry you buckets abt it. GFOH! Some women really have gone through something and I have great respect for them not for a bimbo who can’t take a silly joke.
      Aug 4, 2018
  • Microsoft 🍑🖖🏾wyd
    You know Apple is run by white men when they call it the iPhone 6+ and it's really only 5.5 inches...
    Aug 5, 2018 8
    • Microsoft 🍑🖖🏾wyd
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Intuit qLPF37
      That guy (Alien shows on History Channel) is a bit out there.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Google / Eng sgro
      > they are less than iPhone 4 ;-)

      Victim of penis joke makes penis joke
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Tesla / Eng bonehead
      Obviously OP learned to like penis jokes after all!
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Facebook misterdude
      Ok this is smelling like someone who doesn’t like their teammates and wants to use the MeToo movement and accusations of bullying and sexual harassment to fire people.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • PeerStreet / Other
    6’6 Nord

    PeerStreet Other

    PRE
    Amazon
    6’6 Nordmore
    “I also report sexual harassment in this group before. When out for team lunch, a guy referred at the food I ordered as male’s body part”

    This is why guys don’t invite their female coworkers out to lunch. They overreact to non-issues like these.
    Aug 5, 2018 4
    • Amazon helooitsme
      Now that's sexist.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Qualtrics Qwertydick
      This is the same dude that blames women for generalizing men.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • New boneo
      Incel....
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Facebook / Data
      YCHk03

      Facebook Data

      PRE
      Nunya Business Inc
      YCHk03more
      The point of a pattern of misbehavior is that an individual thing “isn’t a big deal”. If one of your coworkers accidentally kicked you in the shin, you’d shrug it off. When it happens every day, and you end up with bleeding shins, then someone laughs about how you have weak legs, the “small” issue of yet another coworker kicking your leg when they’re walking next to your desk isn’t small, and it doesn’t mean OP is necessarily weak or oversensitive, or should go buy shin guards because everyone knows women always stick their legs out too far while at their desks.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    Manager : Indian original from India. American/American/ Chinese pretended to be American
    Aug 5, 2018 10
    • Where are you from OP?
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple Fsgs252
      I think we should keep it classy and not attempt to attribute nasty behaviors to nationality of people. There are douchebags of every race and country
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Fair enough, sorry.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Amazon reorgs
      This post makes no sense. Is indian original/ the same as Native American? Is ‘India. American’ the different as American/chanise Pretended to be American ?
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Glooko / Other nfg
      Like the great American philosopher Sean Carter once said "I had this Indian chick, the day that I met her, asked her 'what tribe she from, red dot or feather?'"
      Aug 5, 2018
  • Uber YssI00
    I am offended by your grammar and English, can I report you to HR?
    Aug 5, 2018 2
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    I don’t know if you saw women protested in front of Uber building. We are angry being treated badly in Tech. Why women can’t display emotion while men can?
    Aug 4, 2018 3
    • Twitter / Eng
      Lolly

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Lollymore
      This grammar ... the cringe
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Microsoft Cgy58
      Women can, but you cannot. Because you are just a troll.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • ServiceTitan Daisyamazy
      @Lolly, how many languages do you speak?
      Aug 6, 2018
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    My experience was not only harassment, but also retaliation and targeting. Apple HR actually favor the manager to manipulate me to use illegal content and punish unreleased Apple content on social media, and down play he just learning...
    Aug 4, 2018 5
    • Twitter / Eng
      Lolly

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Lollymore
      I don’t know wtf you’re saying, but if you involve HR over something stupid like a crude joke at a dinner table - they will try to get rid of you. HR is not supposed to babysit snowflakes but protect the company and overall employee health.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Twitter / Eng
      Lolly

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Lollymore
      Also wtf do you mean by “punish unreleased Apple content”? Lol
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple bRrK87
      OP
      So you think over all employee health is women are not protect in work force. I think you should look for elsewhere for your female entertainment rather than in work place.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Twitter / Eng
      Buckss

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Buckssmore
      I honestly don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Are you trying to converse in English? I am a female and I’m upset at the way you’ve framed your stupid grievances that reduce the seriousness of genuine MeToo stories. Please get grammar lessons
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng ReHumDinge
      Rekd
      Aug 6, 2018
  • Google / Eng sgro
    This story doesn't ring true, sorry
    Aug 5, 2018 3
    • Apple / Design
      aplanonymo

      Apple Design

      PRE
      Google
      aplanonymomore
      Typical male denial.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Google / Eng sgro
      Not really. It sounds like a troll post or the story of a paranoid person. Not saying nothing there happened (what's described there is unfortunately quite common IME) but that the post itself is not telling the full story and it's making a huge disservice to people that have been harrassed in the workplace
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Twitter / Eng
      Lolly

      Twitter Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft, Oracle
      Lollymore
      Agreed - it’s either a troll post or OP needs behavioral therapy.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    Same Walmart brand. GTFO
    Aug 5, 2018 7
    • Walmart.com fnx2018
      Idiot, the person who called her B was from Apple, I just said I was dead wrong to guess it was wrong :p
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple Fsgs252
      Ah okay, my reading comprehension is very bad, sorry about that then
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Intuit hdhddugkv
      good to know Apple hires people who have adept social justice skills but very bad reading comprehension.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Apple Fsgs252
      I have technical skills that allowed me not even consider applying to intuit :)
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Intuit hdhddugkv
      welcome to America, thank you for your tax dollars.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Medtronic / Eng
      IHKL51

      Medtronic Eng

      PRE
      BAE Systems, Raytheon, The Walt Disney Company
      IHKL51more
      Your manager is an idiot and a liar. I’m native to this country and no, men don’t refer to others friends’ girlfriends as prostitutes. That’s a good way for a guy to get punched.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Amazon AynU04
      So, what you really want is to physically hurt someone as a response to a slur...
      Classy. You go girl!
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      azzy

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Oracle
      BIO
      Hey.
      azzymore
      Can you provide the context?
      Aug 6, 2018
    • Wolters Kluwer radix8655
      The context is absolutely ridiculous. I was at a company party and looking at the time on my cell phone to go home and there was a picture of my girlfriend and I on my phone and he decided to comment on the photo. I was like sorry what did you just say and he repeated that and I posted what ensued. Since then I removed the photo so that no other person would think of making those comments. She was completely clothed in the photo. Not a scandalous photo in any country
      Aug 6, 2018
  • New
    🎉dodo🎉

    New

    PRE
    Boeing
    🎉dodo🎉more
    I don’t know what is worse? The troubles she faced or how people on Blind are responding to her experience? Its shameful. Well looks like the world is full of sexist assholes. There is nothing oversensitive in what she did.
    To all those who feel she did overreact to those “jokes”, wait till your daughter face the same issues in her workplace. You guys need to change.
    Aug 5, 2018 3
    • New boneo
      Do you really think referring to a food item as genitalia in a social setting is harrassment?
      Surely she can ask for the person not to make such comments and not go out to lunch with those people again...
      Aug 5, 2018
    • New
      🎉dodo🎉

      New

      PRE
      Boeing
      🎉dodo🎉more
      Try making that joke to someone who is not close to you in your office tmrw. See how they react. We will talk then.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • New boneo
      They might find it socially inappropriate, but doesn't constitute sexual harrassment.
      Aug 5, 2018
  • LogMeIn Gj3epf39
    This is a troll post.
    Aug 4, 2018 0
  • Apple bRrK87
    OP
    No wonder you work for Walmart
    Aug 5, 2018 4
    • Tesla / Other qSXN35
      You just harassed a person based on his place of work.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng onMyWay
      Lol OP’s mailed it in. It was fun while it lasted.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • Walmart.com fnx2018
      Thanks for complements, unfortunately you just proved me right that you have this bad habit of generalizing. Remember every time someone brings in fake case of harassment, other more genuine cases of harassment looses voice because you already abused it and now unfortunately gave people a reason to doubt others too.
      Aug 5, 2018
    • VMware someon
      I had some suspicion the OP was a kind of crazy SJW. After this post, I have no more doubts.
      Aug 5, 2018

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