Should I take Amazon sde2 offer

Cisco TNqc58
Apr 1, 2018 43 Comments

Location bay area. Currently senior technical leader in cisco making close to 300k. Total experience is 14 years and 6 year s in USA. Got verbal offer from Amazon in bay area for sde2. Almost 20 percent less pay based on initial verbal offer and that too seems like a upper end of sde2. Should I even negotiate? Appreciate your help.

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TOP 43 Comments
  • Amazon vcxH82
    Why leave for lesser pay?
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Microsoft wlb
    14 yrs for sde2 is definitely not suitable. sde2 in amzn is like a smart kid two years out of college. You should minimally get sde3, and to get principal is on par with your experience.

    I think you will have no problem getting them to upgrade their offer to sde3. If they don’t give that to you, reject their offer immediately.
    Apr 1, 2018 4
    • Amazon / Mgmt Hdidndk
      I see this far too often from Microsofties so I have to correct it: levels are not up for negotiation.

      They’re picked by your interview team and a calibrated bar raiser. We have so few levels (SDEs have 6 from college-hire to VP, most of the population is in the first 3) that we spend a lot of thought on it.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Microsoft wlb
      Then please just reject this offer outright.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon / Mgmt Hdidndk
      If OP is so level/title conscious, then leave the offer. They’re not going to like Amazon anyway. But maybe OP wants to know how they can grow? Maybe Amazon is or isn’t the place to help them learn more, but isn’t it worth considering? Or does everyone here think they’ve maxed out their skills and are just trying to cash in? I sure as fuck hope I’m still growing. That’s why I work at Amazon. I could cash out at Oracle for 20% more with a handshake interview, but I won’t learn what I do at Amazon.

      If more pay would make them consider the job: my advice is to be honest. The hiring manager may or may not have room to change the offer, but if they do, they will try.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • AppDynamics dnfk44
      @Hdidndk Offer levels are negotiable. I have personally received an L4 offer from Amazon and negotiated to L5 once.
      Jun 11
  • Amazon Sffvfj
    Not worth it. Interview again in a year for L6.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng ama64
    Amazon titles are flatter; SDE 2 is a huge range from 3 to 15 years of experience. It is the senior IC role. Once you get to SDE 3 it’s less about coding and more about design.
    Apr 1, 2018 4
    • Apple Cbyc
      Don’t be an idiot. He has 14 years of experience. U think too highly of amazon which is known to have low hiring bar.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Cisco lEcG86
      Tech leads 2 in Cisco has got to be at least sde 3 in Amazon.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      WaduHek

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Riot Games, Audible
      BIO
      Some SDE2 pleb that works in Seattle
      WaduHekmore
      Lol @ the Apple person talking about low hiring bars 😂🤣😂🤣
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Apple Cbyc
      I am working for facebook now ;)
      Apr 1, 2018
  • Apple Cbyc
    Yes this is an insult
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Symantec SymcGsoLay
    The offer is just an insult, allowing me to say so without using those four letter words. Amazon didn’t think you are that valuable and the offered level said that idea implicitly.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Apple Cbyc
    All these amazon people think too highly of their cheapskate and low bar company. No way anyone with 14 years experience should join amazon as a sde2. I have nothing against amazon but I would even say that is also true if the OP gets an offer with fb. FYI I am working for Facebook now.
    Apr 1, 2018 2
    • Amazon / Eng Away.throw
      You weren’t there in his phone screen or on-site. I’m sure OP did fine, because he got an offer.

      However the bar between 2 and 3 is mainly LPs and maybe he was under-developed?

      If you come in as an SDE3, you’re going to hit the ground sprinting, and many don’t make it from the outside.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon / Mgmt Hdidndk
      Tech interviews are a flawed process. We all know that. I’ve seen people leveled higher at FB. I’ve also taken people who rock that FB didn’t appreciate enough. None of us were there for the interview . None of us knows OP. If he gets a better offer from a company that excites him more where he interviewed better, he should take it.

      Until then, we can offer insight into what you can or cannot negotiate and how the jobs may differ.
      Apr 1, 2018
  • Amazon dalejrjr
    I guess you could try hitting 300k for an sde2 in Bay area but do you want to? Sde2 is a regular sde position, it would be a demotion probably for you. And you can't expect your TC to grow without AMZN growing a lot in the future.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon QCgr68
    I joined recently for close to 300k (285) as SDE 2, so it is possible to get close to your comp as an SDE 2. However, I would expect a raise when changing jobs, and the scope of responsibility of SDE 2 is probably a lot lower than your position at Cisco.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Cisco / Product uptick
    I would not touch it without a 20 % hike..Cisco is a much better place to coast at $300K salary range..
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Cisco lEcG86
    No way you should take it. Let the recruiter know where to shove the sde2 offer
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng Away.throw
    You got downleveled. Hard.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng AnonSurvey
    They lowballed (low-leveled in this case) you bc you work for Cisco, figure you’d take a pay cut to come to a fang stand up for yourself and ask for L6 or bust unless you really want to take a paycut to come to a fang, 300k is not doable at L5 save for the people who’s stock has grown past that over the years
    Apr 1, 2018 4
    • Amazon / Mgmt Hdidndk
      You cannot negotiate your level. It’s decided by the BR and loop. That’s set in stone. With his/her experience, they must have looped them for L6 or L5 and landed at their skills are L5. The level isn’t a “lowball.” There’s no incentive to hire someone at a lower level.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Microsoft wlb
      Given 14 yrs and sde2, it violates the amzn principle of “does this guy have long term potential in amzn?” This must be a lowball downgrade offer.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon / Mgmt Hdidndk
      Someone can certainly have long term potential and be a L5 and have 14 years experience.

      We don’t know his history. Different companies encourage different behavior out of their higher levels. It is well within reason to see someone who is kick-ass at tech, has grown with technology, but may not have what we want from an L6 *yet*. That’s not an insult. It’s just that Amazon may have -different- expectations than Cisco. That’s not a “lowball,” it’s just leveling someone.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Apple Cbyc
      Only amazonians think this offer is good. ROFL. My junior who was pretty weak in programming got into amazon as sde 2 with two years experience. If OP wants to be on same level as him, please go ahead :)
      Apr 1, 2018
  • AppDynamics / Eng
    swhire

    AppDynamics Eng

    PRE
    Juniper Networks
    swhiremore
    Do you work in embedded sw in Cisco ? If yes, that could be the reason they downgraded you. It is a tough choice. In Cisco you are at top of your salary band, you cannot increase your comp much over time. Amazon even though you are paid less, you can get promoted to SDE 3 in next few years and hit 350K. Also the exp will open up other doors such as FB, Goog which pay even more.

    I am guessing you are a bright person. It is not easy to hit tech lead 2 in Cisco unless you are exceptional, so there is a high chance you will be able to prove yourself in Amazon and can climb up.
    Apr 2, 2018 2
    • Amazon dalejrjr
      OP would probably be losing money before promoted to SDE3. Then he would need a couple of years to catch up with earnings to break even. So it's a 5yr gamble. Not to mention PIPs and general uncertainty of getting promoted at Amazon
      Apr 2, 2018
    • AppDynamics / Eng
      swhire

      AppDynamics Eng

      PRE
      Juniper Networks
      swhiremore
      Which is why I mentioned it is a tough choice ? It is gamble no doubt. If OP is a good eng, he needs to get out of Cisco. Cisco is a dead end for your career.
      Apr 2, 2018
  • Apple HgeDI47?5g
    So AMZN is offering you a total comp of ~250k? Could you post the breakdown?

    SDE2 seems like a downgrade from Sr. technical leader and your experience level, but I’m not aware of Cisco’s ladder. Do you have any other offers?
    Apr 1, 2018 3
    • Cisco TNqc58
      OP
      Was not actively looking. So no other offers. Sr technical leader is equivalent to second level manager.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon dalejrjr
      Second level manager at Amazon is L6, the same as SDE3. SDE2 is the level of bottom SDMs. You are being downleveled
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      $Walmart

      Amazon Other

      PRE
      Microsoft
      $Walmartmore
      SDE2 is huge downgrade. Second level manager is at least L6 in Amazon.

      One old wise man told me once, “never take lower pay, instead stay in the same job and donate the extra money to a charity.”
      Apr 1, 2018
  • Cisco archvile
    Why take pay cut for Amzn? If it was top startup , it might be worth
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Apple Cbyc
    The right question should be why do these amazon people think they are a better company than Cisco? Lol. Anyone with offers from FB/google surely don’t pick amazon. Apple is about second tier as msft but imo, amazon is third tier with Cisco
    Apr 1, 2018 4
    • Cisco archvile
      No, amazon is second tier with google, Apple. On an average there pay is higher than Cisco. And stock is big difference creator.all Goog, amzn, Apple low ball big time. Fb, Netflix, Airbnb are tier1 in my opinion. I don’t think they low ball or discriminate candidates from where they come from. Msft is slightly better than Cisco but both are tier3.
      Apr 1, 2018
    • Google Small Head
      So Goog, Amzn and Apple are tier 2 because they "low ball big time"?
      Apr 1, 2018
    • AppDynamics / Eng
      swhire

      AppDynamics Eng

      PRE
      Juniper Networks
      swhiremore
      Amazon is definitely better than Cisco no doubt. Cisco has zero innovation, anything new they come up is via acquisitions. Obviously Goog, FB are better than Amazon. I would rate Amazon, apple, msft tier 1 but slightly below Goog, FB, Netflix which are also in the same tier.
      Apr 2, 2018
    • Cisco archvile
      Check out blind salaries for goog, amzn, Apple. They may be innovative companies but salaries are way lower than Fb, Netflix.
      Apr 2, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng
    jdhwhicjeb

    Amazon Eng

    PRE
    Morgan Stanley
    jdhwhicjebmore
    Definitely low. If you are interested in switch, prepare and switch with offers. If you're not, don't switch.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Mgmt awsfart
    What team is it for? Do you think you’ll be stretching yourself more than in your current job?

    First, Amazon roles are flat. I wouldn’t see the level as a “downgrade” if the responsibility sounds the same. I (personally) would take a pay cut for a more challenging job where I think I’d learn more. Amazon is a great place to challenge yourself and some of our businesses are in really interesting growth points. But make sure you really like the manager and team— they’re going to be your partner in getting work done. But you’re not a new-grad, I don’t have to tell you that. :)

    Your manager may be able to negotiate some on the pay, but not much. That’s just how our pay bands fall.
    Apr 1, 2018 0
  • Amazon Banker
    Typical amazon!! Downleveling hires
    Apr 1, 2018 0

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