Location bay area. Currently senior technical leader in cisco making close to 300k. Total experience is 14 years and 6 year s in USA. Got verbal offer from Amazon in bay area for sde2. Almost 20 percent less pay based on initial verbal offer and that too seems like a upper end of sde2. Should I even negotiate? Appreciate your help.
TOP 43 Comments
- 14 yrs for sde2 is definitely not suitable. sde2 in amzn is like a smart kid two years out of college. You should minimally get sde3, and to get principal is on par with your experience.
I think you will have no problem getting them to upgrade their offer to sde3. If they don’t give that to you, reject their offer immediately.
- I see this far too often from Microsofties so I have to correct it: levels are not up for negotiation.
They’re picked by your interview team and a calibrated bar raiser. We have so few levels (SDEs have 6 from college-hire to VP, most of the population is in the first 3) that we spend a lot of thought on it.Apr 1, 2018 2
- If OP is so level/title conscious, then leave the offer. They’re not going to like Amazon anyway. But maybe OP wants to know how they can grow? Maybe Amazon is or isn’t the place to help them learn more, but isn’t it worth considering? Or does everyone here think they’ve maxed out their skills and are just trying to cash in? I sure as fuck hope I’m still growing. That’s why I work at Amazon. I could cash out at Oracle for 20% more with a handshake interview, but I won’t learn what I do at Amazon.
If more pay would make them consider the job: my advice is to be honest. The hiring manager may or may not have room to change the offer, but if they do, they will try.
- Amazon / Eng ama64Amazon titles are flatter; SDE 2 is a huge range from 3 to 15 years of experience. It is the senior IC role. Once you get to SDE 3 it’s less about coding and more about design.
- All these amazon people think too highly of their cheapskate and low bar company. No way anyone with 14 years experience should join amazon as a sde2. I have nothing against amazon but I would even say that is also true if the OP gets an offer with fb. FYI I am working for Facebook now.
- You weren’t there in his phone screen or on-site. I’m sure OP did fine, because he got an offer.
However the bar between 2 and 3 is mainly LPs and maybe he was under-developed?
If you come in as an SDE3, you’re going to hit the ground sprinting, and many don’t make it from the outside.
- Tech interviews are a flawed process. We all know that. I’ve seen people leveled higher at FB. I’ve also taken people who rock that FB didn’t appreciate enough. None of us were there for the interview . None of us knows OP. If he gets a better offer from a company that excites him more where he interviewed better, he should take it.
Until then, we can offer insight into what you can or cannot negotiate and how the jobs may differ.
- Amazon / Eng AnonSurveyThey lowballed (low-leveled in this case) you bc you work for Cisco, figure you’d take a pay cut to come to a fang stand up for yourself and ask for L6 or bust unless you really want to take a paycut to come to a fang, 300k is not doable at L5 save for the people who’s stock has grown past that over the years
- You cannot negotiate your level. It’s decided by the BR and loop. That’s set in stone. With his/her experience, they must have looped them for L6 or L5 and landed at their skills are L5. The level isn’t a “lowball.” There’s no incentive to hire someone at a lower level.
- Someone can certainly have long term potential and be a L5 and have 14 years experience.
We don’t know his history. Different companies encourage different behavior out of their higher levels. It is well within reason to see someone who is kick-ass at tech, has grown with technology, but may not have what we want from an L6 *yet*. That’s not an insult. It’s just that Amazon may have -different- expectations than Cisco. That’s not a “lowball,” it’s just leveling someone.
- Do you work in embedded sw in Cisco ? If yes, that could be the reason they downgraded you. It is a tough choice. In Cisco you are at top of your salary band, you cannot increase your comp much over time. Amazon even though you are paid less, you can get promoted to SDE 3 in next few years and hit 350K. Also the exp will open up other doors such as FB, Goog which pay even more.
I am guessing you are a bright person. It is not easy to hit tech lead 2 in Cisco unless you are exceptional, so there is a high chance you will be able to prove yourself in Amazon and can climb up.
- Apple HgeDI47?5gSo AMZN is offering you a total comp of ~250k? Could you post the breakdown?
SDE2 seems like a downgrade from Sr. technical leader and your experience level, but I’m not aware of Cisco’s ladder. Do you have any other offers?
- The right question should be why do these amazon people think they are a better company than Cisco? Lol. Anyone with offers from FB/google surely don’t pick amazon. Apple is about second tier as msft but imo, amazon is third tier with Cisco
- No, amazon is second tier with google, Apple. On an average there pay is higher than Cisco. And stock is big difference creator.all Goog, amzn, Apple low ball big time. Fb, Netflix, Airbnb are tier1 in my opinion. I don’t think they low ball or discriminate candidates from where they come from. Msft is slightly better than Cisco but both are tier3.
- Amazon is definitely better than Cisco no doubt. Cisco has zero innovation, anything new they come up is via acquisitions. Obviously Goog, FB are better than Amazon. I would rate Amazon, apple, msft tier 1 but slightly below Goog, FB, Netflix which are also in the same tier.
- Amazon / Mgmt awsfartWhat team is it for? Do you think you’ll be stretching yourself more than in your current job?
First, Amazon roles are flat. I wouldn’t see the level as a “downgrade” if the responsibility sounds the same. I (personally) would take a pay cut for a more challenging job where I think I’d learn more. Amazon is a great place to challenge yourself and some of our businesses are in really interesting growth points. But make sure you really like the manager and team— they’re going to be your partner in getting work done. But you’re not a new-grad, I don’t have to tell you that. :)
Your manager may be able to negotiate some on the pay, but not much. That’s just how our pay bands fall.