Should immigrants be able to bring over their retired parents and get free healthcare?

Amazon &p
Jul 29 211 Comments

A lot of migration to the US, through every visa system, is actually economic migration from poor countries. Often times immigrants will eventually bring in their entire extended families from these poor countries, often including retired parents and such, folks who end up getting free healthcare here when they themselves never paid any US taxes.

Medicare costs $915/month to the taxpayer for every enrollee, and generally takes 35 years of premiums to generate the capital to provide retirees with that level of benefit over a typical lifespan.

Plus often you get one immigrant who brings in FOUR parents, including the parents of their non working spouse. So then the have one workers tax being cashed out as healthcare for five people.

So it can end up being a huge burden on the healthcare system here.

I don't want to stop people bringing over their family if they want to, but it does seem to me we should look the free healthcare. You should personally have had to work in the US for at least ten years to get any kind of social security, medicare, or Medicaid in my opinion.

Maybe even longer than ten years.

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TOP 211 Comments
  • Kemper / IT Sub-Zero
    Where do I sign up for this free healthcare?
    Jul 29 14
    • Citibank / Mgmt 🐟r🏷️
      Because they hate immigrants.
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I'm an immigrant, so no.
      Jul 29
    • Uber gfhwhwv
      Yes many immigrants hate immigrants
      Jul 30
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      This not about hate but about rational policies.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Correct
      Jul 30
  • Microsoft / Product
    Brazuka

    Microsoft Product

    PRE
    Bain & Company
    Brazukamore
    Goddamn OP is annoying AF
    Jul 29 50
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      No, the US government spends $894 per person per month. So pay that.

      https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/nhe-fact-sheet.html

      I previously calculated the lifetime premiums to be 160k by retirement. Turns out that if you annuitize that 160k over 30 years of payouts at 5% it's $848 per month but that's for TWO people. Now life expectancy is less so you can play with that number a bit and work out that on average it's about right to cover the cost of the program.

      So if you import your parents you really should either buy your own health insurance, pay $894/m per person for Medicare, or pay a catch up lump sum and then have it covered.

      Anything else and you're taking a lot of money away from hard working tax payers. Not fair.
      Jul 30
    • New / Product GRHw77
      Non subsidized cost per person is $440/month. This is if you go private. So you are telling me that government has to pay twice?
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      That's the medicare budget per enrollee. That's what the government ACTUALLY spent. You can check the link.

      Or more accurately, what it actually costs everyone else to fund your parents retirement.

      It's $894*2=$1788 per month. By the way, the 160k up front premium catch up is a deal: if your parents both make it to 75 you're ahead versus the monthly $1788 payment.
      Jul 30
    • New / Product GRHw77
      What matters is what government spends on parents. Not what it costs everyone. Just compare it to a self employed person who has to get his own private insurance. That is the liability of the parent. Not the rest of the government mess or their inefficiency.

      Also, I don't have parents. I am talking for others. I don't see anything wrong if my tax money is utilized for school districts where there are illegals students or parents healthcare from any immigrants
      Jul 31
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      No, what matters is what the government spends. As the reason why medicare costs a lot more than private health insurance is because medicare recipients are over 65 which costs a ton.
      Jul 31
  • New / Product GRHw77
    You need to work in US for at least 10 years and above age of 65 to get Medicare. https://www.hhs.gov/answers/medicare-and-medicaid/who-is-elibible-for-medicare/index.html
    Jul 29 13
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Reread post 1. I was discussing all immigration categories, explicitly, so your unethical personal attack has failed.

      I notice you are more interested in finding personal attacks than in discussing the issue. I gather that's because you know you have little to say.
      Jul 29
    • New / Product GRHw77
      LMAO. This guy though
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      You can't stop making it personal, huh?
      Jul 29
    • New / Product GRHw77
      Haha. The thing I feel bad about you is that, your one of the biggest problems lies around such an insignificant particular community focused issue. Get some life man. You are definitely Desi given this nature
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Still making it personal.

      I wonder why you never discuss the topic. I guess it's because you have nothing to say.
      Jul 30
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I don't think the parents deserve it AT ALL.

      Why would you think that they do?

      I think they deserve NOTHING from American tax payers.
      Jul 29
    • New / Product hdow
      What? The Americans are AMERICAN. Its a birthright. The immigrant who moves here deserves every penny of benefit they receive, and any child they have here deserve the same. But their parents do not. They are not Americans, nor did they immigrate here and work and pay taxes.
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I read it. I don't think we should be funding the retirement of non Americans with US tax. If we allow that retirees to immigrate we should make them pay their own way.
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I am an immigrant myself. I don't expect to bring my parents and get free healthcare for them. You're barking up the wrong tree.
      Jul 29
  • Google snoozler
    No.
    Jul 29 0
  • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
    Nobody living in a civilized nation should have to choose between medical treatment or financial ruin. #MedicareForAll
    Jul 30 26
    • Oath puSc85
      When did you have your immigration interview op?
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I heard India has universal healthcare. Why don't you let those public rural hospitals in India take care of your parents? Stay away from any private hospital there, it's heartless to expect to have to pay.

      What could go wrong?
      Jul 30
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      Start with I’m American, not Indian....
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      So? You already decided that country shouldn't matter, so what's stopping you?
      Jul 30
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      Please quote my exact words where I said that, or stop putting words in my mouth, DINO.
      Jul 30
  • Uber gfhwhwv
    Just because your healthcare is broken dont blame the immigrants.
    You know except for emergencies, it's cheaper to fly to a country like India, get treated by the best doctors in top notch facilities and fly back.
    Jul 29 7
    • SAP own
      gfhwhwv, yes, stats are important. One understands free healthcare for those who cannot afford it, but having adult well-established citizen who are already settled here? I know of some cases where the elderly parent doesn't even like to visit the US (let alone live here after spending their life elsewhere), but their adult now-US-citizen son has gotten her a GC, so she has to visit & spend some time here annually. No points for guessing how her medical insurance is covered.
      Jul 29
    • Uber gfhwhwv
      Stats should be the first thing to look at before this discussion started . What next , don't put off fire if they have not paid taxes?
      Jul 29
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I get that other countries are not individualist, but now you're in America. Time to integrate.
      Jul 29
    • Uber gfhwhwv
      Nop, time for you to understand there are other PPL. This is not called integration.

      Unless of course you say that no immigrants allowed who are close to their families. I get it, you are not.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Pay your own way
      Jul 30
  • Asurion lVGz10
    Let’s see ... from H1b to Green card takes on average 2-3 years ( I know people that die to their work condition have been in the process up to 8 years) then that person needs to wait another 5 years to apply for citizenship, which takes anywhere between 1-1.5 years. After being citizen, they can apply for parents green card which again takes 1-1.5 year. After that, parents need to wait 5 years to get the green card to be eligible for benefit. The total time from H1B to parents start using the benefits is minimum 14 years! A person in tech with average compensation of 150k through this 14 years pays almost 800k in taxes+ social security . I don’t even count the added value that they generate throughout these years ... so I think you AMERICANS need to just for once stop blaming AMERICANS-IMMIGRANTS and just fuck off!
    Jul 29 5
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Your contributions to medicare / SS are capped. So no. Only the first 132.9k of you income is included in the SS/Medicare tax, and it's only a couple percent tax.

      And those taxes pay for YOUR medical treatment. Not you parents. Not your wife's parents either.

      I don't really care how long anyone waits. If they weren't working in the US and paying taxes here they shouldn't expect a free handout from those who were.
      Jul 29
    • PACCAR / Eng cockatiel
      Social security is capped but not Medicare.
      Jul 29
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Not everyone is in tech. Only 15% of us immigration is in the eb categories.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      We're discussing family immigration here. You don't sponsor you parents with an employment based greencard!!!

      If the sponsor is broke then bringing in their broke parents is even worse.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon kCgr03
      h1b to GC takes 2-3 years? That'a a joke. 2-3 years if you are from a country with very few applicants. The vast majority of applicants are from India, it takes an avg of 11 years to get GC, plus 5-6 for Citizenship.
      Jul 31
  • Twitter
    Oomnj

    Twitter

    BIO
    It’s all shitposts and jokes - get a sense of humor!
    Oomnjmore
    We can’t keep 18th century laws for the 21st century globalized world. But not really sure what the solution is?
    You can be nativist but that is xenophobic.
    Demanding merit based immigration is racist and is so demanding a border wall.
    Jul 29 4
    • True.

      Let’s repeal the 2nd Amendment and improve background check process for gun purchases.
      Jul 29
    • Twitter
      Oomnj

      Twitter

      BIO
      It’s all shitposts and jokes - get a sense of humor!
      Oomnjmore
      There is a proper process for modifying the constitution. As much as I love the 2A, if people want the constitution modified and have the actual votes to do so per the process, be my guest.
      Jul 29
    • New / Eng hezi
      Xenophobic? tf? It's called protecting your country and people.
      Jul 29
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      The parents should be given a long term visa so that they can come and stay with their kids whenever they want. But it should not be a GC or a citizenship with it.
      Jul 30
  • I would say yes.

    It’s also about having healthy relationship as well. Not sure where OP is from, but I found that I am more productive when being able to live close to my loved ones. My mom is one of them.

    Economically, I can see your argument. However, my mom do contribute to society as a babysitter. It’s not the glamorous job out there, but it does keep her busy and create a positive value to society.

    From my perspective, healthcare in developed countries like the US should become a right, not a privilege.

    You can’t call yourself a developed nation when the people are afraid of seeking medical treatments due to fear of bankruptcy.
    Jul 29 6
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      This country gave you fantastic opportunities compared to what you could have gotten in your home country. If you're in tech you're making multiples of what you could have earned. Even if you're from Europe you are likely taking home double, and if from Asia more like five TIMES what you would have earned. Multiples either way.

      If you want to bring all your parents and your spouse's parents and god knows who else, more power to you. But pay the bill yourself.

      Oh, you say it makes you more productive? Great. I don't really care, but your employer might. So ask your employer to pay. Don't ask me to.
      Jul 29
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      Where’s all this free stuff y’all like to whine about? I grew up in this country and didn’t have wealthy parents. I didn’t get my free shit, so I’d like to know where to sign up. (Sarcastic, but also serious... I would love to know what you’re all whining about.)
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Medicaid is free for low income people and they are bringing in their parents and registering them as low income even though the kids are high income
      Jul 30
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      If the parents don’t have their own income, aren’t they low income? I don’t get what you’re saying.

      You whine like a kid who thinks someone else got a bigger piece of pie than they did, but the benefit is there specifically for people who have very low income. You, too, can get this “free healthcare” if you want it: just give up your high TC and donate all assets to charity.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      That's the point, I don't think we should be bringing in low income people who will never work and never pay a dime in tax and then ask American taxpayers to fund their retirement.

      There are a couple of solutions, any of which would solve the problem:

      1. Deny coverage to any immigrant who has not worked at least ten years in the US

      2. Deny immigration visas to people who are in retirement and whose pension/saving would be considered low income

      3. Include the sponsor's income in any assessment of low income status
      Jul 30
  • Target / Cust. Srv. tmDe33
    Melania, is that you?
    Jul 29 0
  • F5 Networks dontalk2me
    Good bucket list item for US immigration .. they’re already messing enough crap already
    Jul 29 0
  • Google hlp2
    The country of origin gave 25 years of education and more of health care, then the immigrant is off to U.S. paying all the taxes here. Shifting a bit of these medical expenses to U.S. is still leaving the countries of origin at the very bad end of the deal.

    So I'd call it a good feature, not a bug.
    Jul 31 4
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      Exactly
      Jul 31
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Not if the person is retired. They will never pay taxes here. The logic is only valid for people who come here with a significant number of working years left.
      Jul 31
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      It amazes me how dumb you are. He's talking about the person that brought the parent, not the parent.
      Jul 31
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      The EB GC person is already here. We are discussing the benefit of the family class immigrant. The US is already getting the benefit of the EB immigrant.

      Ironically I hear a lot of Indians criticizing the number of family class immigrants we have and insisting we should shift those visas to employment applicants such as themselves. Except when it's THEIR family member, then it's their right and we shouldn't question it if their family comes here and uses services whilst never paying any tax.
      Jul 31
  • Apple / Eng chillbill
    As an immigrant (who may or may not someday see if their parents would want to move to the US), no. You should only get free benefits if you paid taxes for it. That whole system is broken but that’s beyond understanding.
    Jul 29 1
    • Twitter
      Oomnj

      Twitter

      BIO
      It’s all shitposts and jokes - get a sense of humor!
      Oomnjmore
      If you paid taxes for them then they are not free benefits 🤦‍♂️
      Jul 29
  • Microsoft tincans
    At least they are better than the lottery based immigrants who become burden on taxpayer from day one!
    Jul 29 1
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Working age immigrants mostly end up working, but sure, I would totally agree to generalize this to denying benefits to any immigrants who didn't have at least ten years of US employment income, regardless what visa they entered on. If they come on the lottery and never work they should not get free healthcare either.
      Jul 29
  • Amazon Waze
    Why does this matter when everyone has to go to a pharmacy in Canada anyway to afford prescription drugs.
    Jul 29 41
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      So the people receiving benefits should pay. Medicare enrollment should cost

      p * (1.05^(35-n)-1/.05)

      Where p if the median annual premium paid by families and n is the number of years of US employment.
      Jul 30
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      I know the value you put on a human life. Profits over people. Typical MAGA DINO.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      No, I put a value on healthcare.
      Jul 30
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      You know people die in this country because they can’t afford healthcare?
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Lots of people in the world die because they can't afford healthcare. I understand, for example, that it's quite common in India and Mexico.

      I suggest you donate to MSF if it's a concern for you. Good charity. They do a lot of good work bringing basic medical services to people who have no other access to doctors.
      Jul 30
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Sure, it’s the traditional family values that conservatives claim to love. Parents live with you and help take care of your kids while you work... so they are still adding value generally, if that’s your criteria to allow humans to move from one place to another.
    Jul 30 1
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      My parents do the same just that they aren’t citizens or GC holders. We just need a long term visa for this.
      Jul 30
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    Only 25% of US immigrants have bachelors degree, yet people are hell bent on stopping Indians. 🍿
    Jul 30 8
    • New / Product GRHw77
      LMAO, OP is such a loser. He first was targeting a particular community, then he started losing arguments on many threads. Now he shifted his gears towards Mexicans. Get a fucking life dude. You have been trashed by so many people with legit arguments. Now you are moving on to other ethnicities.
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      Nice straw man personal attack but my comments have been general since the OP.

      You can't discuss the issue because the don't have any logic so you hurl insults.
      Jul 30
    • New / Product GRHw77
      No they were not. You have been attacking people about their parents. Then it started becoming indian parents on many threads. Your focus was also on tech immigrants. Highest probability of any tech immigrants bringing their parents are Indians. Your motivations are very clear man
      Jul 30
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      I haven't been attacking anyone. I have said they are welcome to bring their parents but I think that they should pay for their healthcare.
      Jul 30
    • New / Product GRHw77
      I don't have problem if you would have had genuinely looked at the problem. The tone of your messages made it sound derogatory towards parents, which I why I got personal with you. I don't have parents, so this issue does not apply to me. But you kept saying "pay that", "pay it", making it sound like parents come here only for healthcare.

      Be nice to people and nobody will be asshole to you. But don't make it sound like Immigrants are some kind of beggars (or their parents). Parents come here for their families. They don't come here thinking about Medicare. If government is providing Medicare then they will take it. That is secondary. If there was no Medicare available then they would have gone private - which would be stupid in this case because government already provide. Have some heart in your arguments then people will be nice to you
      Jul 30
  • Uber gfhwhwv
    What about kids and spouse,? They did not pay taxes either.
    Jul 30 2
    • Google / Eng L A R R Y
      Spouse is a grey area. Kids are fine, assuming parents became citizens. On average kids will end up staying here and paying taxes eventually, that's why we have public schools, food assistance, and healthcare for kids in the first place...
      Jul 30
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Most adult Americans don’t declare their adult parents as part of their family and neither they live with them but they do it for wife and kids. So this is an Apple to Orange comparison.
      Jul 30
  • AnchorFree / Eng 🍪 cookie
    this post is so goddamn racist and ignorant, you talk about immigrant families like they are not people and do not deserve to be alive. you're an idiot OP.
    Jul 31 1
    • Amazon &p
      OP
      You talk like failing to get a US greencard means you are not a person and do not deserve to be alive, or that you have no value as a human being unless you get free healthcare from the American taxpayer.

      That's ridiculous. Humans have value regardless of their enrollment in a particular healthcare system.

      And I'm not even saying they shouldn't come here. I'm not one of those Indian immigration extremists who thinks family class immigration is a bad thing and we should only have employment immigration.

      I see a lot of value in the family immigration system and do not believe we should be shifting visas away from it.

      However I do want to make sure that the United States is getting benefit from the immigration program and we should ensure that at least every immigrant is not a loss to the country.

      An easy way to do that is leave the immigration system as it is, but make medicare and medicaid benefits proportional to the number of years you worked in the United States, with full benefits after 35 years.

      If you worked here 20 years you should pay 10/35ths of the cost of medicare. If you worked here zero years you should pay the full cost.

      That makes it fair
      Jul 31