Should transgender people be allowed to serve in the military?

Microsoft mistermiss
Jun 21 132 Comments

Just Curious

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TOP 132 Comments
  • Uber / Eng ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°
    Does being transgender prevent them from doing their duties more so than any other soldier?
    Jun 21 20
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      I’m not sure how this applies as it’s after their service (veterans). The topic at hand is about ACTIVE military members which is the heart of the issue. Anything else?
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Yes, a lot more. This is specific to post op health outcomes, which is directly related to your suicidality and mental health position.

      Let’s end this though. We’ve both gone back and forth in a mostly unproductive way. If you want to engage in a personal discussion about my experience in combat situations with trans individuals and my trans health research I’d be more than happy to. This forum is a poor outlet for this conversation.

      I’ve enjoyed the fun back and forth and certainly don’t legitimately think you’re an asshole. I do think your opinions are ludicrous, but you’re probably coming from the right place.
      Jun 21
    • Uber / Eng ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°
      How important is team cohesiveness in non-combat roles? Does an Army accountant need the same cohesion as a Green Beret?

      I’m also hearing a lot of generalizations (trans tend to have more mental health issues) rather than an individualized look at the person (does this person exhibit those issues) to make determinations as whether any trans person can serve in any capacity. It’s pretty well known that not everyone has the stuff needed to be an elite soldier, so why try to hold all trans people to that elite standard?
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      My comments were very specific to being “deployable” which I thought I made clear, sorry if it wasn’t. You shouldn’t get paid time off to “transition” while on the job, any time off shouldn’t count toward your time commitment, and you shouldn’t be considered for any combat ready roles where your personal situation could put the lives of others at risk.
      Jun 21
    • Netflix mr.clippy
      Sounds like you’re cherry picking one narrow scenario and then painting all transgender people with the same brush.

      One can be transgender and never have sex change operations.

      One can be transgender and not undergo sex change operations while in active duty.

      From your argument, anyone taking drugs that affect ones hormones or behavioral tendencies should be banned from military duty. Women who take synthetic hormones for medical purposes. Men who have testies removed from testicular cancer. Anyone taking depression medication, etc...
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      @mr.clippy yes to your last paragraph. Anything that could impair one’s abilities to be combat ready and contribute to mental instability is and should be a disqualifying situation. This is why we screen people and disqualify many or also why some are discharged early.
      Jun 21
    • Netflix mr.clippy
      Okay. Well I’m in no position to qualify who is “service ready compliant”. Nobody in Blind is. I don’t think you can paint any kind of broad brush to dump people in one bucket or another.

      What’s obvious is transgender folks are just as capable at being exemplary at this job as everyone else. Identifying as M\F but being biologically the opposite makes no difference in your physical and cognitive abilities.

      If the opinion of the military is that folks undergoing sex change procedures are incapable of performing their duties, ill leave it to their judgement and not the random politically charged judgement of cadet bone spurs or anyone else’s opinions outside of the evidence of medical science. It’s important to narrow the terms of barring individuals without broad group punishment. We are a meritocracy after all.

      Last point I think is important is that not being able to serve active combat doesn’t mean they cannot serve their country in some other function.

      Simple conclusion: don’t create broad arbitrary rules around these attributes. Take it on a case by case basis. What makes our military great is that it’s voluntary.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      Except they’re not capable of being exemplary for a combat role because they suffer from mental illness. Everyone has to demonstrate they’re combat ready even if assigned to a desk because they could be redeployed in a combat role at any time.
      Jun 21
    • Netflix mr.clippy
      Lol. And you have authority to claim this how? How did Bruce Jenner ever become the the greatest athlete in the world during the olympics with such a devastating mental illness?

      The process for determining mental and physical fitness for combat and doesn’t need your additional help to improve.

      Just so I’m not confused, what is your exact group of people you’re talking about? All transgender people?
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Her last statement is literally factually untrue.
      Jun 21
  • Amazon 10022004
    Why would anyone say no? The ONLY even remotely reasonable ‘no’ position is increased medical costs, but that’s negligible.

    I can’t understand why you’d say no to this.
    Jun 21 25
    • Amazon 10022004
      Thanks! I appreciate your encouragement.

      What would compete in the marketplace? You’ve offered nothing but opinion backed by no evidence or experience. What would compete with that?
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      Your first mistake is thinking I’m here to change your mind, I’m not. I’m merely here to present the counter point based on science and logic rather than the emotional one you’re presenting.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      It can be emotional and evidence based at the same time. It’s narrow minded to think otherwise.

      Of course this is an emotional issue. You’re de-valuing a human being based on literally no experience and with no presented evidence. You’ve presented nothing. You’ve stated ‘logic’ but provided none. Your position appears purely anecdotal and opinion based.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      I’m not devaluing anyone. I have deep sympathies for those with mental illness in general. I’m merely saying other people’s lives shouldn’t be put at risk because of this mental illness. Also GID usually has comorbidity with other psychopathies.
      Jun 21
    • Oracle hmoney
      10022004 you are a wannabe vet.
      Stay in your lane.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Hahahahaha...OK hmoney. I’m a wannabe vet.
      Jun 21
    • Oracle hmoney
      I mean if you find that funny, ok.
      Jun 22
    • Amazon 10022004
      I find it funny because it’s a ridiculous assertion.
      Jun 22
    • Oracle hmoney
      Whatever floats your boat, I find pretending to be a vet pretty pathetic
      Jun 22
    • Amazon 10022004
      You’re ridiculous.
      Jun 22
  • Boeing Airbus
    Would they be recruited by male or female standard?
    Jun 21 24
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      If a male can't make it, transitions and aces the tests - is this a valid path?! Sounds absurd.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Well, the reality is there should be parity in fitness standards irrespective of gender.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      ^^ Absolutely agree. Let's ask the question then, why do we have different standards?
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Because, historically, women don’t serve in combat and are relegated to desk jobs. They weren’t seen as real members of the military.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      You see how this starts creating all kind of problems. A women enters the force, decides to become a man, now does this man have to cover the men standards before being assigned to anything?
      If the new man fails the tests, is he discharged?
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      No, I don’t see how that creates a problem. It’s simple. The answer is Yes.

      The standards are not challenging for men or women.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      🤣 If that was true the military wouldn’t have an 80% rejection rate.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      They’re not rejected solely for fitness failures. If you can’t pass basic military fitness standards you likely have some debilitating condition, spent your entire life sedentary, or are obese. The requirements are easy, especially for the Air Force and Navy.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      I am sorry @10022004, it sounds simple, but imagine the outcry if the military tries to discharge a underperforming transgender. 😂
      Jun 21
  • Apple ijyA68
    Would trans men be expected to meet male physical fitness standards?
    Jun 21 16
    • Amazon 10022004
      None. I addressed that. A trans person must meet all requirements of the gender they identify as.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      So like sports if men can’t compete with others males, they’re free to call themselves a “woman” and dominate actual women. What a great time to be a woman in this country. /s
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Look, another crap argument.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      Wasn’t an argument, it was a statement. There was no attempt at persuasion. Maybe learn the difference.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      Oh ok. Thanks for the education.

      Look, another crap statement.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft mistermiss
      OP
      Trans men transitioned to being a man. They would be evaluated as a man
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      And I’m curious how often that happens. Clearly a man competing against woman won’t have any issues with the women’s requirements but the reverse can’t be said.
      Jun 21
    • Amazon 10022004
      The men’s requirements are not particularly challenging outside of the special forces and the marines. Most fit women can easily (and do) achieve current men’s standards. With testosterone supplementation it’s even easier. Military fitness standards are not challenging.

      And...anecdotally, most military transitions are FtM, not the MtF.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      So what you’re saying is the military is purchasing lots of prosthetic schlongs? Good to know.
      Jun 21
    • Apple purifier
      Certainly better that the physical abilities of the commander in chief
      Jun 21
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Let’s compromise: disband the military.
    Jun 21 10
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      That’s not really a compromise but I would support a reduction in spending.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft Jenkies
      Or or you can move to a country without one
      Jun 21
    • Salesforce op
      Not sure what's happening in EllisDee's reality so I'd like to ask:
      how do you imagine the US exists without military, police (I guess you don't like it either), birders etc.
      All other countries won't disband their military and eternal kumbaya is not here yet.
      Jun 21
    • Comcast / Eng WonyTerner
      it is a great compromise. a standing army is not the only possible form of military.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      SF: Ellis has shown herself to be a crazed, leftist loon. You won’t get an intelligible answer out of her.
      Jun 21
    • Comcast / Eng WonyTerner
      salesforce: "how do you imagine traveling without MUH ROADS?!"
      Jun 21
    • Salesforce op
      @comcast have you come up with better alternative to roads? I doubt you are paid enough to have personal helicopter.
      Jun 21
    • Salesforce op
      Standing army is not required if you have some other army protecting you.
      See NATO and some tiny meaningless European pseudo country.
      Jun 21
    • Google djW7Am
      ^ TIL Germany is a tiny meaningless pseudo country 🤓
      Jun 21
    • Salesforce op
      Some is not the same as all.
      And Germany has army.
      TBH even Baltic trio has their armies though mostly for decorations.

      You should seriously work on your reading comprehension.
      Jun 21
  • Amazon tdubya
    Transgender is a mental illness
    Jun 21 4
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      The fact that the definition is changing doesn't raise any questions in your mind? Very naive. 👌
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      Reminds me more of how the propaganda machine operates. The evidence strongly suggests mental disorder, but hey, why not act on it .
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      You can look it up, it takes basic skills. Not worth arguing with someone bend over on propaganda. 😁
      Jun 21
  • Sina.com blw
    LGBT patriot has equal opportunity, right?
    Jun 21 6
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      LGB should be kept separate from T. Sexual preference doesn’t impact ones ability to serve in a combat ready position by itself. T on the other hand is a mental health issue that does directly impact someone’s ability to serve in a combat ready role. If you have a schizophrenic L then clearly the schizophrenia, not the sexual preference, would negatively impact the individual’s ability to serve.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      It absolutely is a mental disorder despite your copy and paste. The fact that trying to claim people are not distressed by it is BS. There would be no need for hormones, surgeries, or suicide if it wasn’t distressing.
      Jun 21
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Flagged by the community.

    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      LOL “medical consensus”. Now that’s complete BS and finally worthy of the usage. The Left always loves to say something is settled science or a consensus, yet it’s never so.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      Now you’re doing what Leftists do best. Claim the other side is doing the very thing, they themselves are doing... How do you know when a Leftist is guilty of something? They accuse you of doing it. A well known and oft practiced Alinsky tactic straight out of Rules for Radicals. Know thine enemy and know them well.
      Jun 21
  • New / Strategy MWSt70
    If it doesn’t affect their readiness for deployment (physically, mentally, etc) then sure, who cares.
    Jun 21 2
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      But it does and that’s the problem.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft mistermiss
      OP
      Based on no evidence from you, Akamai
      Jun 21
  • Google djW7Am
    Hey if they want to get shot at on my behalf all the more power to them.
    Jun 21 7
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      You missed the point entirely. Despite the “Army of One” mantra, combat ready troops need to be an effective and cohesive team. Mental health issues of one team member puts the whole team at risk in combat scenarios. It’s not just risking their life, it’s risking the lives of their team.
      Jun 21
    • Google djW7Am
      Give anyone going into combat roles a mental health screen then. I wouldn't be surprised if this is already standard practice.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      Not sure how that would work considering Gender Identity Disorder/Gender Dysphoria is a self identifying mental illness. It’s not like there is a simple test, it relies on the person telling you that they think they’re the opposite gender which you can easily lie about.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      It absolutely this.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      These are all politically motivated groups that throw biological science to the wind in favor of political correctness and cultural Marxism. Actual research is being suppressed because of pressure from activist groups to push a false narrative when it comes to this mental illness.
      Jun 21
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      They literally aren’t the medical consensus but nice try.
      Jun 21
    • Microsoft ksohe--pa
      So that you can discredit them one by one with your vast expert knowledge? You certainly don't sound like someone willing to change their mind. People are tired of grandstanding, righteous pricks. 😂
      Jun 22
  • New WaVi51
    Liberals agenda:

    Gays in the US "shoot the arab children for oil money" military is the #1 priority for all gays.

    Because smart gays don't have massive student loans, and they all have affordable housing, and healthcare is affordable, and all have job security for life in low cost of living areas and all are destined to retire in Palm beach in luxury when social security runs out in 15 years, and.....you get my drift.....

    Politicians trick is to get you riled up about the most irrelevant yet emotional issues while they give your taxes to their friends in backroom dealings.
    Jun 22 1
    • Microsoft mistermiss
      OP
      What does this have to do with transgender people in the military?
      Jun 22
  • Oracle hmoney
    The main objection is specific medical cost. So if costs can be considered preexisting conditions and not eligible for Tricare benefits, I wouldn't object.
    Jun 21 1
    • Oracle hmoney
      Well don't be shy about pulling random things out of your a55!
      Jun 22
  • New NidI04
    Should people with varying degrees of mental illness be allowed to serve in the military?

    My personal answer is anything is fine as long as it wouldn't interfere in your ability to do the job. The high rates of suicides and other issues among the trans-folk is a bit concerning.
    Jun 23 0
  • Amazon Gjdyveycc4
    People who are opposing should be sent to military compulsorily
    Jun 21 0
  • Samsung
    chajimogo

    Samsung

    BIO
    Stressed out but surviving
    chajimogomore
    As long as they can kill like this guy, sure: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wick
    Jun 21 0
  • Microsoft Jenkies
    Yes
    Jun 21 0
  • Amazon 10022004
    For the ‘which gender would they be recruited as’ and ‘which gender fitness standards’ audience...the military already addressed this before the ban. It’s not complicated.

    gle.com/amp/s/kkkk://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/07/navy-no-exceptions-fitness-standards-transgender-sailors.html/amp
    Jun 21 0