Silicon Valley Exodus

Intel forgoing
Dec 28, 2017 125 Comments

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/redfins-glenn-kelman-predicts-mass-tech-exodus-coastal-cities/

Google hires more ppl outside of silicon valley than they inside of sv due to high real estate costs in the bay area. This guy predicts not many companies will remain here.

Are you guys willing to relocate somewhere else? Cause I cant survive with Intel Salary in the bay area anymore. Im gtfo starting from 2018 to Seattle

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TOP 125 Comments
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Microsoft
      yMcg47

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore
      yMcg47more
      “Wife loves her kitchen “
      Take that back or you will get it from women here
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Microsoft shshsgi
      She *does* love it. What can I say? I like the bonus room / home theater myself. I guess we're both stereotypical :)
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel beesknees$
      How's the weather in Seattle? 😀
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Microsoft
      yMcg47

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore
      yMcg47more
      Today is great, but it doesn’t matter. I never go outside
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Microsoft shshsgi
      The weather hasn't been an issue for us. Far better than the East Coast, which is where I am from. Much milder winters (e.g. it's only snowed three times on Christmas in the last 100 years). Gorgeous, gorgeous summers.

      Yes, it's not CA's all around year warm semi-desert climate. But most places aren't.
      Dec 28, 2017
  • Amazon Elf
    Amazing that tech companies pay high wages for people, we are the smart ones, but not smart enough to fix this broken system, more homeless, less affordable housing (purchase or rent), people are displaced, the companies that are causing this problem are the companies we want to work or we working, but is not our fault we say, we are just a tiny piece of the system causing this problem, we are lucky compare to the rest of the population (I’m talking about the world), hot shower, hot food, a roof are not enough, we want more and more, new iPhone, new crap, when a tech company opens a office in x place we see the same pattern: wages, rent and cost of living rise, I saw medium/small business in Bay Area and Seattle closing because: “they can not afford to pay the rent”, we are going to be 8 billion humans soon, but we don’t care, the rat race is real and we are part of the problem.
    Dec 28, 2017 21
    • Amazon / Product Gucci Gang
      @Nilops let’s stay focused here. This is a post about the US. There’s no need to drag ROW into it and go all “Team America, World Police.”

      Besides, I don’t think the 3rd world really appreciates the US meddling in their issues and insisting on things like equal rights for women (for example) as a condition of being helped.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • IBM YQKY82
      Third world countries deserve to be wiped off the face of this earth. We'd be much better off without all of Africa and India
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Amazon / Product Gucci Gang
      @YQKY82 that’s harsh and very unnecessary.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Intuit nilops
      It’s only out of American ignorance that you can discuss American thought and action in isolation. Isolationism has always been a fallacy.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Amazon / Product Gucci Gang
      @Nilops

      I’m not encouraging isolation, I’m pointing out that this thread is about the Bay Area and we don’t need to bring in other countries on a topic very specifically focused on the Bay and tech.
      Dec 30, 2017
  • Google / Eng YourVP
    Yes, would like to GTFO as soon as appropriate
    Dec 28, 2017 6
    • Intel sillycon
      Intel + Bay = torture
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Microsoft **Ptr++
      Seattle is almost as expensive at the Bay Area and it comes with shitty weather that takes years to get used to.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Almost as expensive?! Just the state tax and capital gains tax alone should add to a healthy savings.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Microsoft **Ptr++
      Yes, but that’s just one part of the equation. Seattle salaries are lower. Opportunities are significantly lower compared to Valley. So there might be some short term savings but you will end up losing more in the long term. Don’t base decisions purely on $. Most personal tax provisions of this bill expires in 2025-2026. Also, it’s called sunshine tax for a reason. You underestimate the contribution of the great CA weather on your overall wellbeing.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Intel DSPN81
      SF weather is just as bad as Seattle if not worse - Seattle summers are amazing and SF summers are fog. If you live in East/South Bay, it's a f'ing shithole. Seattle is a way better situation, lower cost of living, and no state income tax.
      Jan 5, 2018
  • Akamai Technologies wePD25
    I wonder if some of these people head to the Boston area. Taxes and housing are much lower than California but it still has a vibrant tech scene and economy.
    Dec 28, 2017 9
    • Microsoft MSFT DE
      Seattle is unbeatable in the summer. 17h of dry sunshine every day, 75-85 degrees, no AC needed at night.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Google tentenths
      Some people like seasons.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Google / Eng Fluttershy
      Like seasons, can confirm. Bay Area is great in a lot of ways but weather is a downside for me.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel Isbdbsk
      There’s a reason they call it “taxachusetts”. Taxes are ridiculous in Boston.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Google tentenths
      Seems like a bargain coming from CA, lol
      Dec 28, 2017
  • Adobe cjEh51
    Utah is growing at a crazy rapid rate. Lots of unicorns and big players like adobe
    Dec 28, 2017 10
    • Intel Isbdbsk
      Ugh. Have you ever been there during an ‘inversion’? Weather is nasty.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Adobe cjEh51
      I moved from east coast. Challenging at first but you avoid inversion by living in Park City which has a lot of folks from all over. Park city is considered expensive but much more reasonable than bay areas. Culturally and diversity it can get much better by I have seen progress over the past few years. Give it 4-5 years and people will be flocking there for cost of living and jobs.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel sillycon
      Big players like Adobe ...
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel intelgasb
      I’m now moving to Utah. I’m tired of higher state taxes and self destructive fiscal policies in OR.
      Dec 29, 2017
    • Intel sillycon
      What employer?
      Dec 29, 2017
  • Intel NoFear
    Carolinas are seeing a lot of growth as well... Cheap power, cheap cost of living and real estate, good tax breaks for corps creating jobs, etc... FB, Google, Microsoft, IBM, Cisco, NetApp, DellEMC, lots of biotechnology and research firms and Amazon all have a presence. Not a bad place to have a tech career outside of the West coast and SV, or Texas and Boston.. Major Florida Cities and Atlanta are also decent SE USA tech markets.
    Dec 28, 2017 4
    • Amazon / Eng
      ex-ms

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      ex-msmore
      I’m from NC and all the driving is something I don’t miss. Everything seems to be at least 10 Miles from where you are and very little public transit infrastructure. The education/tech centers are great but somehow the regressive social politics in the state is so off putting because unlike Washington they still have lopsided amounts of political power in the state. Plus income and sales tax. Weather ain’t bad you get real seasons, with relatively mild winters but pretty hot and humid summers.

      I’m really torn about moving back even though family is there.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Google tentenths
      Not white. Not moving there. 🤔😜
      Dec 28, 2017
    • New / Eng
      G0dz1la

      New Eng

      PRE
      Qualcomm, Nokia, Apple
      BIO
      Hardware Tinkerer, Software Engineer, Musician, Painter, Moving Helper
      G0dz1lamore
      Not moving to a Trumper state ever, I might get shot for not looking white
      Dec 28, 2017
    • New / Ops
      Batman33

      New Ops

      PRE
      Google
      Batman33more
      NC isn't really that bad and the cities are super progressive. Just a much larger rural population there. I do agree with the driving thing but I didn't grow up in a city like NY so that's normal to me. Raleigh has had a pretty consistent and good tech community for the last 30 years. Decent amount of meetups/tech scene, affordable real estate, ok taxes. Having lived in California I'd say I definitely enjoy living here more.
      Dec 29, 2017
  • Twitch lolze
    Bay Area is indeed becoming prohibitively expensive to raise a family. But I would rather downsize and live minimally than move to a less progressive, less weather friendly, more polluted, dirtier water supply, or less agriculturally diverse alternative
    Dec 28, 2017 13
    • Google tentenths
      Eh I don’t think you looked very closely. If you look at San Mateo county it’s low (and San Francisco is virtually zero for ozone days and daily microgram concentration for particulate matter). I don’t do outdoor activity if the air quality is yellow (>50 µg/m3) and where I live there are generally favorable air currents and air quality is reliably green with concentration <30... I’m pretty much exercising outdoors year round. Yes, Santa Clara County and south/east San Jose are way worse.
      Jan 17, 2018
    • Google / Eng bigdot
      Sounds like you're on top of it. I'm curious, what kind of pollution metrics would you be tracking when evaluating other areas?
      Jan 17, 2018
    • Google tentenths
      Mainly particulate matter (PM2.5). Denver, Reno, and Salt Lake are known for bad winter air, etc. Places with hot summer could have high ozone. But looked at a city like STL and was pleasantly surprised by the air quality metrics. I’m sure # of cars and amount of economic activity/transport overwhelm most other factors outside of geography.
      Jan 17, 2018
    • Google / Eng bigdot
      So air quality and water quality are the main pollution factors I can think of. Are there others to consider as well?
      Jan 17, 2018
    • Google tentenths
      Light pollution, noise pollution, recycling, composting, energy mix, carpool lanes, public transport, bicycle infrastructure, clean air/vehicle incentives, public EV charging, ...
      Jan 17, 2018
  • Amazon hexoctal
    I would strongly advise against moving to Seattle. I moved from the bay area and regret it.
    Weather really sucks. Depressed people everywhere. Traffic is 10x bad than bay with i-5 always jammed.
    Most terrible drivers in the country. If it rains there will be slowdown on the highway. So that's like 9 months of the year.
    People argue muh mountains, but it's not worth it.
    I would rather live in a sunny/expensive town than a little cheap/bad weather one.
    YMMV.
    Dec 28, 2017 4
    • Facebook / Other RhVA38
      I believed you until you mentioned traffic. Where were you in the Bay Area to think that traffic is worse in Seattle?
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Microsoft shshsgi
      I have the opposite experience. We moved from the Bay and are *so* glad we did. Our shitty house in the bay was awful - our home in Seattle is so much larger and nicer. My wife loves, loves the kitchen. And happy wife ==...

      We also have a nice view of the lake and mountains which is just nice to wake up or come home to.

      Traffic in the bay was as bad or worse. I take the connector to work. I'm originally from the East coast and can attest that the winters in Seattle are far, far more pleasant and mild than on the East Coast. Summers of course are stunningly beautiful.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Amazon hexoctal
      Good to know its working for you. I like hiking but not into skiing. I have lost a lot of vitamin D since moving to Seattle. OTC drugs don't work for me. There is not much to do in Seattle tbh.
      @Rhva38 - I lived in peninsula. Bart would get me into downtown in 40 minutes for 15 miles. Here, I spend 50 min or more for under 10 miles.
      Employment opportunities are also limited in Seattle with amazon and msft only big corps. FB and Goog are catching up, but the presence is still very small.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel GucciGucci
      What are the things you were able to do in sf that you cant do in seattle?
      Dec 31, 2017
  • Amazon aeCj31
    When did we start to define “coast cities” as only NY, LA, SF, Boston? Seems odd that he was defining a mass migration away from coastal cities to... Seattle, Portland, Florida, Houston?
    Dec 28, 2017 3
  • Amazon GunNun
    We need HQ2! Sooner the better!
    Dec 28, 2017 0
  • Google / Design Gqn
    I’d move to LA in a heartbeat when the right position comes up. I only got a 4% raise so my strategy is to live off my new hire base salary. Stay for 3 ish years and then if they lower me 10-15% for moving to LA I’m still okay. I always reserve equity and stocks for savings, and investments. Never for bills. Just me.
    Dec 28, 2017 4
    • Microsoft shshsgi
      Have you ever driven in LA?
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Box / Eng CPK pep
      If you relocate FROM Silicon Valley, do companies actually LOWER your salary?
      Dec 31, 2017
    • Google / Design Gqn
      @shshsgi yup. Grew up there. It’s all a game. Gotta know when to get on which freeway. Get an electric car for hov lanes and be an early bird. Get in early. Leave early.

      @cpk prep— yup. They inflate it a bit when moving TO Silicon Valley so yeah it makes sense when you leave. It’s around 10-15% off your base.
      Dec 31, 2017
    • Google / Design Gqn
      I have no idea for a remote employee but I’d imagine it’s the same principle.
      Dec 31, 2017
  • Microsoft
    yMcg47

    Microsoft

    BIO
    Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore
    yMcg47more
    I would like to relocate somewhere with ca weather and ocean but no tax and dumb people. No such place exists
    Dec 28, 2017 3
    • Facebook / Creative
      TJ!
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Google / Eng Fluttershy
      Depending on what you mean by “dumb” (e.g. if it’s a shortsighted euphemism for liberal), Houston may be good.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel exCD86
      Houston in the summer is like living in hell, no thanks!
      Jan 4, 2018
  • Google / Eng sergey
    Pittsburgh FTW!
    Dec 28, 2017 1
    • Google / Eng YourVP
      If you want to shovel snow 6 months in a year.. jk
      Dec 28, 2017
  • Intel FTQE41
    Seattle costs are better but not by much
    Dec 28, 2017 2
    • Microsoft shshsgi
      Even better post tax reform. No state tax. Nothing pushing you much over the 10K state deduction, so most tech folks getting 8K to 12K back. Housing is still far more affordable.
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Intel GucciGucci
      By not much? You kidding? An average house isnhalf the price comparednto sv
      Dec 28, 2017
  • Nike rokekoke
    Boise, ID is seeing nice growth in tech scene. Amazing outdoors, no traffic whatsoever, and great distinct weather across seasons - allows lots of sports activities.
    Jan 14, 2018 1
    • Apple / Eng
      DEADBEEF🍻

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      DEADBEEF🍻more
      Boise is a great town. I hope it’s never ruined by too much tech.
      Jan 14, 2018
  • Intel DSPN81
    Already made that move. The 10% raise from no state income tax was wonderful
    Jan 5, 2018 2
    • Apple / Eng
      DEADBEEF🍻

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      DEADBEEF🍻more
      TX or Seattle?
      Jan 14, 2018
    • Intel DSPN81
      Seattle
      Jan 15, 2018
  • New / Eng
    Genesys

    New Eng

    PRE
    Intel, Accenture
    Genesysmore
    I’d definitely GTFO of Crazy California if presented with a good alternative
    Jan 3, 2018 1
    • Google / Design Gqn
      I’m waiting for more tech companies to move to DT Vegas. I’d move there and built a moat around my mansion all for $350k.
      Jan 3, 2018
  • LinkedIn vfgh215
    This is a pretty stupid article which lacks any real substance.
    Dec 28, 2017 0
  • Apple / Eng
    DEADBEEF🍻

    Apple Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    DEADBEEF🍻more
    God yes please. Need more options other than Bay Area and Seattle (kill-me-now-weather).

    Apple, please do the same. Can’t afford Cupertino.
    Dec 28, 2017 2
    • Google / Eng Fluttershy
      Ah someone else who would prefer more than one season. I’m with you on the weather and expenses; still for now I have other reasons to remain in the Bay Area (team size, opportunities, and all)
      Dec 28, 2017
    • Apple / Eng
      DEADBEEF🍻

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      DEADBEEF🍻more
      Yeah. I’m staying here unless I find a big opportunity elsewhere. If housing were more affordable, I wouldn’t leave.
      Dec 28, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google / Eng YourVP
      Yes, but because of supply-demand not because of adjusting for cost of living.
      Jan 3, 2018