Some questions on diversity

Amazon
Jeuxn683

Amazon

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Google, Uber
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Aug 10, 2018 28 Comments

I know we’ve discussed at length on what the whole point of “diversity in tech” movement is, with most answers ultimately coming down to
1. Reducing blind spots
2. Maybe a better eye for market opportunities
3. PR BS

I certainly believe that the hiring bar should not be lower for anyone based on race or gender - when I interview candidates, these are not factors I consider (and I ask the same 3 questions to everyone anyway)

So what I’d like to know is, is there any actual bar raising / lowering going on in our industry based on diversity targets? Once I submit interview feedback, I’m not sure how the decisions are made from there.
How do you feel about this?

Disclosure: I’m a white male

TC 340K, YOE 9

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TOP 28 Comments
  • HAECO Americas / Eng
    El Toro

    HAECO Americas Eng

    BIO
    My first “job” , Interior mods on commercial aircraft. Working on coding skills to hopefully transition to a computer science related career
    El Toromore
    I agree to an extent.
    It’s just complicated though ..
    As a first gen Mexican, when I was doing my undergrad in college. I was the only hispanic kid in my class.

    And a lot of my classmates took college classes even in highschool to stay ahead, got internships due to socioeconomic wealth, had parents pay for college, didn’t have to work part time jobs to support themselves and could focus on learning vital software skills on their free time and focus on school 100%. Etc etc. Tons of financial. Social. Socioeconomic issues play into this.

    To some extent .. race shouldn’t matter .. but like. It does.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but for every minority that makes it to a FAANG Interview there are 10+ white kids that get one.
    And odds are the challenges/hardships minorities faced on the way there were much greater...
    so .. idk. When you give a pass to a minority for a bug or something, it’s what you need to do to allow the entry of that minority base into an industry which in turn .. could possibly level out the skill level in time. Where eventually. Race doesn’t matter at all.

    Just my 2 cents tho. I don’t really know.
    Just my experience.
    Aug 10, 2018 15
    • Microsoft / Eng Tier 1
      Uh what?

      Education markets are inelastic.

      Education prices = what students can pay + what students can borrow.

      If we cut federal student loans, the market price for education would go down roughly the same amount, while education would remain just as affordable.
      Aug 14, 2018
    • HAECO Americas / Eng
      El Toro

      HAECO Americas Eng

      BIO
      My first “job” , Interior mods on commercial aircraft. Working on coding skills to hopefully transition to a computer science related career
      El Toromore
      Do you sincerely believe that though ?

      Wel Shit .. i mean true.. if federal loans are cut. Number of Admissions would go down dramatically, hurting most schools In the process requiring them to lower their tuition to mitigate the losses ?
      Aug 15, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng Tier 1
      Yes exactly. Schools would then have a financial incentive to cut wasteful spending (eg on administrators and sports)
      Aug 15, 2018
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Yeah like when the UC budgets were cut and Universities made up the difference by cutting student services, eliminating whole courses, and raising tuition.

      What kids of the rich and professionals could afford without assistance is much different than what kids of working class parents could afford. So, like I said, a great way to make our class system more deterministic, more caste-like. But I’m sure the neoliberal kool-aid tastes great.
      Aug 15, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng Tier 1
      That’s a completely different case
      Aug 15, 2018
  • New / Eng Uber19
    I’m a woman. And I think the hiring bar should not be lower. Period.

    Diversity efforts should start from helping minorities with training/advice/mentorship etc. basically the path setup for success and fighting against discrimination. Letting someone in with less capability is like throwing them into fire and reduce respect in the long run.

    Of course then again we have Harvard quota against Asians for years (diversity for others) and I’m not hearing a national uproar about it.
    Aug 10, 2018 5
    • Oracle Omgmanjose
      What Harvard quota are you talking about?
      Aug 10, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng
      PastDue

      Microsoft Eng

      PRE
      Google
      PastDuemore
      Jews had quotas on their admission years before the Asians did; we’re the reason Harvard even started having admission interviews! The majority of people at Harvard are Christian males to this day.

      I agree that we should be focusing on equality of opportunity, not outcome.
      Aug 10, 2018
    • New / Eng Uber19
      Yep exactly
      Aug 10, 2018
    • HAECO Americas / Eng
      El Toro

      HAECO Americas Eng

      BIO
      My first “job” , Interior mods on commercial aircraft. Working on coding skills to hopefully transition to a computer science related career
      El Toromore
      I’m curious tho .. who set the hiring bar ?
      Aug 10, 2018
    • New / Eng Uber19
      Let’s just say I’m hiring and the company has set the bar for senior swe and swe. If one person doesn’t make it as senior he/she will be considered for swe. I would not hire him/her as senior without vetting their capabilities as one. I don’t think a bug in a test case would matter much honestly.
      Aug 10, 2018
  • Microsoft 🍑🖖🏾wyd
    You should hear the constant stories that are shared in Microsoft blind channel. Hr constantly pressuring managers to hire and promo diversity. Forced diversity quotas tied to compensation. Internal transfers are blocked for white Asian and Indian males at certain levels until they first fill a diversity quota. The stories are rampant and the bar has definitely been lowered at Microsoft.

    Women and other minorities express that they feel uncomfortable and that there is now more bias against them because of this
    Aug 10, 2018 0
  • Oracle Omgmanjose
    I have had couple recruiter friends telling me that the interview results can be overlooked based on gender(in their opinion - small bugs/issues in interviewee's code can be overlooked). I'm not sure if there's any truth to it.
    Aug 10, 2018 1
    • Microsoft pkmc
      I get invited to go on many UR trips and the recruiter always emphasizes that while we need to be conscious of our own bias we should never ever screen through a candidate that can’t survive loops. Yea of course everyone guys and girls alike do not prefer working in a sausage fest environment but the reality is many of us have interviewed and do not set people up for failure if we can see it clearly lined out through the 7+ different people they have to pass through to get a hire
      Aug 10, 2018
  • OpenTable Meliodas
    Yes, there is bar raising and lowering on the basis of protected characteristics going on in the industry. It is unlawful and it should end.

    D&I is supposed to be about ending exclusionary practices, not shifting who has privilege in employment practices.
    Aug 10, 2018 0
  • LinkedIn zasbab
    My experience is: Yes, there is.

    People have unconscious biases both for and against diverse candidates. I've seen people accept "below the bar" candidates because they're women (I rarely see this with race diversity, personally), the whole time trying to convince themselves that the women are really good, definitely above the bar. It's awkward because they are clearly in denial about the sub-par interview performance, so wanting to help promote diversity.

    And then I've seen explicit bias. All the time I hear "you should hire her, that would help with diversity."

    I think everyone means well, but it's clearly sexist all the same.
    Aug 10, 2018 0
  • Kronos / Other f8
    I don't believe that race or gender should be considered when hiring, but I'm ok with higher refereral bonuses being paid out for Diversity candidates as well as recruiting outreach to bring in more diverse candidates. Managers should never be pressured to take a lower qualified candidate.
    Aug 10, 2018 0

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