Career

Stop saying that you and your company are meritocratic. Stop saying your hiring bars are equal.

Vertivco / R&D
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VertivcoR&D

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7d

Bringing my charisma, smelling nice, always going back and forth with the interviewers, going into very lengthy depth about different strategies for solving the challenges they mention, talking about trade-offs, allowing input from them, enthusiasm, getting to solve multiple problems effiiently during the code jams, etc... THEY DON'T WORK. Stop saying that. @Asana did this to me again today.

I assume it's time to throw in the towel on SWE jobs. Only the well-connected can make it at this point. Not even US Citizens can make it if they're not from the specific places these companies and hiring managers are looking for. And please don't mention something like "just try harder". I'm not going to keep throwing myself into a concrete wall. That's suicidal. If I want to do that, I'll find better ways soon.

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  • Amazon / EngWiskers
    Idk wtf you're talking about. I have 0 connections and do great in interviews.

    You only need connections if you want high level management or executive roles
    • Nvidia / Designtaterbot
      @wiskers 0 connections? You wanna check your LinkedIn. I’m sure you got your job mostly because of your skill but don’t think for a sec that sharing a similar professional network didn’t help. You might not be “well connected” but don’t take your professional presence for granted that’s a little unfair to people that are truly starting from the bottom
      7d
    • Amazon / EngWiskers
      I have known 0 people at the companies that I've ever interviewed at
      7d
    • Nvidia / Designtaterbot
      I was referring to mutual connections. Sharing a network is important. People can size you up by the professional crowd you run with.
      7d
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      ... and where do you get those connections and sponsorships again?
      7d
    • Snapchat MiseryLife
      There’s a difference between branding vs network.

      Branding, you either don’t have when u start out. Or you have bad branding by being associated with certain organizations (or lack of)

      An amazon branding now will get you through the door to an interview.

      However the rest on how u perform during interview is up to you.
      7d
    • Snapchat MiseryLife
      OP - how much leetcode have u done, on a timed constraint, simulating a real environment?
      7d
    • Amazon / EngWiskers
      I agree. OP has a branding and interviewing issues, not a connections issue
      7d
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Branding issue? Yes. Yes, that's what I mentioned earlier. Can't get anywhere unless you're already there. Dead end for the rest of us.

      Recently did around 380 mediums and hards on sheets of paper or whiteboards (until they got stolen). Aimed for 22 minutes or less depending on the problem for one problem and would lap the timer and go to the next. Problems based off of Instagram's Most Frequently Asked LeetCode Questions posts. I solved about 80% of them under the constraints the first time. Questions were an even distribution of standard iterative story-based questions, Arrays, hashing, stacks, queues, pre/in/post order tree traversals, heaps, linked lists, DP, backtracking, DFS, BFS, and graphing.
      7d
    • Snapchat MiseryLife
      You’re pretty decent technically, and that should be enough to get u through to a lot of startups.

      Where all else have u tried? Asana may not be a very good indicative place for assessing ur overall/technical abilities. Or they might just be looking for very specific profile (like u mentioned).

      With leetcode hard, u should be able to get in to Google or FB since that’s most what they care about

      That said, the other factor is - what role are you applying for? If you’ve already got like 10 years of experience, I can see how u might fail a ton of “high senior” roles. This may not be ur fault though, because you may get a lot of really junior engineers that interview u, and all it takes is one dumbfuck engineer who doesn’t know what he/she is looking for to fail u
      7d
    • Snapchat MiseryLife
      I know it’s frustrating, but aim for doing like 30 companies.
      7d
  • Nutanix monk420
    Well connected?
    7d4
    • Tesla afkisdi
      Like no wires cut or misplaced
      7d
    • SpaceX / EngSlaveX
      So not like a Tesla
      7d
    • Tesla afkisdi
      Lol sure
      7d
    • Nutanix monk420
      Nice. Never saw Tesla and SpaceX comment on same comment before. :p
      7d
  • Indeed / Mgmt12and24
    Just identify as something other than a cis white-or-asian male.
    7d2
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      Already am. That's probably why I'm being turned down.
      7d
    • Indeed / Mgmt12and24
      If you're not getting anywhere even with intersectional bonus points you must not be trying very hard. What's your leetcode score? Got a gitlab/GitHub? Did you get a degree? None of those are required but having none means you aren't trying.
      7d
  • Microsoft / EngA**
    The first step is to stop blaming the system or the process and try to work on your shortcomings. I am inside these companies and I have colleagues from all backgrounds you can imagine.
    I'm not saying there is no bias. What I am saying is that there are so many good companies, interesting positions and so much demand that if you can't make it into any one of them, you have shortcomings that you that you need to identify and work on.

    And that begins with changing this blame the system/process mentality.
    If Donald Trump can be the president, you can damn well get an SWE position at one of the many top companies.
    7d3
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      But that's not how it currently works.
      7d
    • Microsoft / EngA**
      With your attitude, I wouldn't hire you in my team. You blame others when things don't go well, that creates a toxic culture. Based on your other replies, you have your technical game on point, you need to work on your attitude.
      6d
    • Credit Karma Dbhcuvksnn
      Strongly doubt this person is passing the technical bar.
      6d
  • Google zndT21
    I'm pretty sure you are wrong. I never failed any interview, ever, and I'm from no name college and mid tier grad school with zero connection in the industry. I didn't even know about leetcode. I'm generally enthusiastic about problem solving and like to have conversations, and so far my interviewers always liked that.
    7d2
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Well the time has changed, my friend. Pray tell, how long has it been since you were liked by your interviewers? When was the last time someone even wanted to partake in conversation? In years of old, having conversations about the topic and realistic use-cases were lovely. Now it's something to spit at.
      7d
    • Google zndT21
      Last interview was 11 months back. All I'm saying is don't lose hope. Having positivity is always going to help you present the best side of yourself when you meet a random stranger in interviews.
      7d
  • Credit Karma Dbhcuvksnn
    When you start off your interview accomplishments with: “Bringing my charisma, smelling nice, always going back and forth with the interviewers”, then my guess is you’re getting the interview problems wrong.
    7d0
  • Tesla Elol
    Seriously : every large company is struggling to get more talent and compete with each other. You should really look into why you’re not passing the interview with some introspection, there are meetup where you can mockup interviews and get feedback on how you’re doing.
    7d3
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      And where are those meetups, pray tell?
      7d
    • Tesla Elol
      Try meetup.com and look for « interview » or « leetcode »
      6d
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      And then, pray tell, how do I get there?
      5d
  • Facebook Whateverrs
    It sounds like you either have an unpleasant personality (kinda seems that way from your post) or you suck at leetcoding, or both.

    I'm not "connected" and I've never heard of someone getting a technical job that way. A good school can help since recruiters recruit fresh grads at the top schools, but besides for fresh grad positions your school kinda doesn't matter much either.
    7d2
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Come on. You know they all look at this information while/after the interviews. Come on.
      7d
    • Facebook Whateverrs
      I didn't say they don't "look at it," I said it's not much of a factor. I've worked with many successful software engineers who didn't have a degree, had a non cs degree from a non target school, etc.

      Ive interviewed lots of people and I always have a copy of the person's resume, but I don't think I've ever felt more inclined to say yes just because of a school or ex-employer on there. That'd be kind of ridiculous. I'm not there to evaluate a resume, I'm there to evaluate their interview performance.
      6d
  • Nutanix monk420
    I have cleared more than one FAANG, and I'm neither from top undergrad college not grad. I didnt have connections. It's not impossible, infact it's not that hard as one may think.

    If you are doing well with coding, either you are nor great at showing your thought process making interviewers think you just cramped up everything, or you have behavioural issues.

    Judging how you are blaming everyone else and playing a victim , I wouldn't have hired you. It's not something I like in people, and neither do anyone else professionally. Step up yiur game, crack the system, get results. Blaming won't help, doesn't matter whether system is broken or not.
    6d0
  • Northrop Grumman / Eng(Ω,A,μ)
    Even I can get interviews at the big boys and look where I come from. I don't try because I can't pass the interviews and don't want to be a straight SWE, need my math yo.
    7d0
  • I agree that companies aren’t meritocratic
    7d0
  • Uber / EngoOBb03
    Demand is super high. You probably just didn't hit the right set of notes, even if you hit other notes.

    So ask them what they are looking for up front. The hard part is knowing what each person wants to see.
    7d3
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Thanks for the input. Sometimes I do that. Usually they say the usual stuff. "You know... good coding knowledge".
      7d
    • Uber / EngoOBb03
      At that point stop the interview, talk to recruiter, ask for a better team to interview with.
      5d
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Ah. Would that really work?
      5d
  • I’ll give you serious advice which I don’t normally do lol. Take a practice interview with one of the services designed to help you practice and get their unvarnished feedback. Maybe there’s something going on that’s fixable
    7d2
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      Did interviewing.io and got many 👍🏼's in a row. Did Pramp too. Read and took notes on some of the other things they recommended. Now people ask me to turn on the camera or I step in for on-site, they laugh and cut me off often.
      7d
    • Facebook Whateverrs
      Laugh and cut you off? Why? Did you turn on the camera with your shirt off?

      What is it they think you're discriminating against you on?

      Your original post implies they'll only hire Americans from top schools (which obviously empirically isn't true), but what school you're from isn't visible on camera.
      7d
  • You just had wrong timing and competition is high.
    7d1
    • Vertivco / R&D
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      VertivcoR&D

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      OP
      I already spoke about the timing issue. Come on. The time was a while ago. There will never be a chance to work under great managers and under people who co-author libraries. The people in these Tier I, II, III, and IV companies have already made it in. The gates are closed. Special entry only allowed for those who work at the other castles.
      7d
  • Uber buzzbazz
    You're correct op - there is more bias than objective fact in most interview processes
    7d0

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