There are several threads against it but I start a thread to support it.
H.R.1044 - Is a bill that removes per country cap that will reduce wait times for India and China green card applicants. Opponents of H.R.1044 tells it helps maintain diversity of US Demographics.
Here are some facts:
Indians, Bangladeshis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans are same people, yet Bengalis, Nepalis etc. get their green card under 2 years (RoW), and Indians wait 20+ years! How is that fair?
A Han Chinese from China will wait 5+ years for green card but a Han Chinese from Singapore or Malaysia will get their green card in 2 years!
This whole per country cap to maintain "diversity" makes no sense!
There are several threads against it but I start a thread to support it.
- Microsoft rand(NULL)The cap is good. I want to live in a country where there is a little bit of everyone, not just half Indian and half Chinese.
- To those who talk about “diversity”, caps or no caps, GC or no GC you’ll have Indians and Chinese taking up 95% of H1B’s/L1 every year, file green card, get approved for it ( I-140 ) and wait in queue forever with the hope they will someday become current to “adjust” their status to permanent resident. Weather you support it or not, you’re diversity claim is BS. If you really want diversity, you should have “country caps” for H1B/L1 too; because H1B/L1 provides a path to citizenship. There would be no backlog if you have country cap on H1B, L1 work visa’s.
The only “benefit” from all this is that wages will go up, companies will scramble to pay more because people will be free to change jobs without fear or wait for GC. You can side with the “corporate greed” and think it only benefits Indians, but the lack of labor mobility is suppressing wages.
Most of you just don’t get it IMO, you don’t know the system enough and just make blanket statements “we want diversity”, “of this means Indians first” lol.. grow up and look at the larger picture of how corporate greed wishes this bill is never passed.
Lastly, I’m on H1B myself. I’ve made enough and have enough money from inheritance to retire early in India and lead a King’s life. What’s stopping me from leaving now? Have juicy upcoming vests for both me and my spouse and a kid on the way ( will be US citizen ). I’ll sell my $1.7M house, liquify all the assets and do a multi million wire transfer on my way out. Thanks but the money is going elsewhere, and I know many will wait for the GC but when people start leaving millions of $$’s will be gone. Pooof!!
Edit: I won’t pay 500k + 100k legal and filing fee for EB5, that’s backlogged too
- I don't give a flying fuck about foreigners and their needs. I really don't.
We DO need high skilled workers in this country and there are many in India who fit the bill. I want those people to come here because it's good for this country to bring in high quality people like that, wherever they come from, and lots do come from India.
But I don't want the zillion other low skilled Indians coming.
Get the merit system working and Indian applications would probably not exceed the country cap. That said, with a merit system I have no problem removing the country cap as well.Jun 30 7
- India currently gets more green cards than all of Europe combined. Our congress thinks we should give them 100% if the visas AND they tried to pass this with unanimous consent . Please call your congressperson tomorrow and more importantly call your senator. It only takes 5 mins to leave a comment. There is no wait.
- 1. H1b is not diverse, it’s skill based. Even if we raise the minimum wage criteria for H1B, what you get will still be Indians. Over next 10-20 years a huge part of population will live here under temporary visas. Almost All of them will be Indians. 2. Most of these Indians (80-90%) will eventually be a citizen in this country once their first US born kid turns 21. 3. A big chunk of these guys are actually having US degrees. 64% of doctoral and 68% of CS masters students were international in 2017 and most of them actually from India. 4. Of the companies lose their ability to hire best talent from worldwide they will ramp up their Canada centers and people can come from Canada en made to the US. They will all be Indian Canadians. With all these reasons, it’s meaningless to oppose this legislation. I understand there will be people who will lose in short term but that was anyway inevitable. I’m a US citizen of Indian origin and I support this legislation.
- I don't see why we need to reduce family quotas. Just award the employment visas in stack ranked order by points, within the current limits. Give points for this like US education, US experience, age, priority occupations, and above median salary. Whether we award 10k or 100k visas, ordering by points until you reach that number is a sensible approach.
If you wanted to combine the employment and family systems into a single system that's easy too. Just award points for having family in the US, as one of the measures of merit.
By the way, I do think having family is merit. Having a support network in the country is a factor that is strongly correlated with successful immigration.Jul 2 1
- I don’t think the current definition of family has any merit, brothers and sisters should not get immigration. I agree with the merit based replacement of fcfs. None of these will materialise. Having a job is far more determinant of success and that makes Indians the richest immigrants in the USA.
This is why MAGA is good. At least MAGA supporters are not hypocrites. They want to reduce all immigration and not only want to stop people whom they don’t like.Jul 2 1
- Family is an important factor. There's good data that immigrants with close family in the United States have greater upwards economic mobility than those who don't. Their kids are more likely to go to college, they are more likely to start a business, etc, all things that apparently flow from the stability and security as well as more rapid integration into society afforded by family.
On the flip side, the loners without family here have fewer ties and a much higher probability of giving up and going back to their country of origin the first time things get tough.
An Indian with siblings in the United States simply has a much greater chance of long term success here than an equally educated Indian with no one here. Ditto people from anywhere.
Awarding points for family connections just makes sense and family reunification has always been a tenet of the immigration system, in fact, it's always been a greater priority than education.
- Man too much talk without data. Had you been true we would have seen more upward mobility from family visa recipients compared to job visa ones. We should have seen better performance from Hispanic migrants than the Asians. I now feel like you’re hiding your anti Indian bias and trying hard to show up as a liberal. You don’t need to. As an India born living in the US I’m quite used to it. Be happy and good night. I’m not going to post on this any further.
- I don’t want to live in a half Indian, half Chinese America. I think caps are good.
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- I would strongly oppose to this. I have never seen any Chinese complain about the quota. If we start bringing all of the one who can apply, not only it will drain the brain in India, it will also make Indians come in easier way. Now average quality of Indian engineers is significantly lower than everyone else.
This is because large number makes easy to game the system. Just see what happens whenever someone hires Indians or Chinese or Russians in high level position. His reports are filled with someone from the same country and others are let go.
Also even if we eliminate the quota, the applicants from India will keep increasing and the entire queue will become stagnant soon and no one will get GC in their 30 years. Diversity is what makes the country develop with creativity as someone who grew up in a different system and background will bring some fresh perspective. Indians may be the same ethnicity as Srirankans but the system is slightly different. Chinese, Africans, Mongolians, Romanians etc can bring something different. It also checks the balance.
No single origin of people should take the entire power. I already hear complaints from all kinds of people about Indians dominating the software engineering and abusing the hiring and promotion system. I also observed it in first hand where my colleagues from different nations also criticized about such practices by Indians.
I am not saying Indians are bad but this would happen if that group was Romanians or Chinese in the same way. When one party has too much power, it is bound to corruption unless extremely well educated. China is one party system. Should Indian copy this system?
- Microsoft fantasiALol Indians hire and promote Indians than any other nationalities. They are the biggest nationalists and racists I have seen. No wonder caste system plagues the society and upper class people trash the lower class people.
I am neither Chinese nor Indian. My friends and colleagues all complain about blatant nepotism by Indians mostly. Chinese, Turkish and Russians all do it but not as much as Indians. That is the consensus. Just see what happens when new management is an Indian. I have seen it too many times to believe Chinese does it worse.7d 0
- TBH, I have heard horror stories of Indians hiring only Indians. But saying that it is not rampant in other communities or is any less is a myth. I am currently in a team of 29 individuals where I am the only Indian and everyone else is a Chinese. They do not invite me for lunch even though I have clearly expressed interest to join them. They speak among themselves in their native language unless I am part of the conversation, something I haven't seen a lot of Indians do. Even in a 1-1 meeting with my Indian colleagues, I speak in English in a closed room.
It was a similar situation in my previous company and team where in a team of 19 people, I was among the three Indians and there was a clear narrative to push us out and hire more Chinese. I ended up leaving so did the other two Indians.
Your experience and sample is not stratified.7d 0
- All these computer engineers and still can’t have straight logic when it comes to policy making. Here is a fact for you - Cognizant - one of the biggest sponsors of H1B/ GC is an American company and the first CEO was a Sri Lankan American - that this company got bunch of Indians is pure economics. First, Why should I as an individual Indian be penalized for this? Second this diversity argument is pure bullshit - it implies that all Indians are the same - we have different languages, scripts, cuisines - if a French and German have separate queues then a Tamil and a Bengali should too. Third, if you want to have a “diverse” nation then logic should be to not get more people who are over represented. Can we stop immigration from Germany then? They immigrated in huge numbers early on and have a huge presence compared to their world population. Fourth, immigration always happens in waves - in the past there were waves from Italy, Ireland, Japan, China etc. so doors should just be shut when it is an Indian wave? Fifth, by all means have the quota for family based immigration - how does this make any sense in employment based? Is it consistent with hiring practices in companies? Finally - removing country caps will not solve the problem - agree on that. What it will do is make a broader population feel the pain - and then we can expect a reform. A point based system of some sorts like Canada/ Australia with more GC allocation. How come nobody sees that this system of creating queues by country of birth is unique and arbitrary!!! It doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world. It is discriminatory - there is no other way to look at it.
- ETrade - that’s a non-argument - it’s an American company started by a Sri Lankan American - it is not the fault of India as a nation-state if it is “exploiting” visa/ GC - ban it for all I care but I don’t see why any Indian individual should be penalized for it. For that matter it is not the fault of Indians or Indian nation state if any company is overusing the visa. And I am sure there are many many Americans employed at Cognizant - don’t make nonsensical claims. Here is an idea - how about you propose a quota of allowable h1/ gc by company - tell me what’s wrong with that idea?
- Netflix mr.clippyBecause removing the caps let’s India and China monopolize the GC system and makes every other country in the world wait longer. Creating the very problem our current immigration system was designed to prevent.
The only fair system is the one we have. Random lottery and per country cap. Country lines and sovereignty exist purposefully. We’re not all the same. Remove the caps and India and China monopolize the system. Use a point system and fraud and corruption will monopolize the system. Get rid of birth country origin and people will cheat by immigrating to some small proxy country as a means to jump the line to the US.
Can’t hack our current system. If India has a long wait, it’s because there’s too many Indians. Sorry about that. But I have yet to see a more fair system than what we have.
Get rid of the low skilled body shop candidates flooding the queue. That would be a better start. This bill is just going to make it worse for everyone and benefit only India and maybe China.
- Indians are screwed by the flood of low quality applications from India, not the quota. India already gets close to half the employment visas even though it's less than a fifth of the population.
It's not a problem with the cap, it's a problem with the volume of applications.
We need a solution that cuts down on the number of applications, specifically, the ones filed by the body shops. Get rid of this and there would be no backlog.
- Facebook sdfdcgdshThanks for bringing to my attention just sent email to my US rep and 2 Senators asking them to vote against. Caps are a good thing.
- Do you really think people will vote for this, even if it were "right" or the "fair" choice?.
This bill only benefits Indians over everyone else. Americans won't fight for it
- This will drive wages down. There will be a huge influx of cheap Indian labor.
- This isn't about who did anything wrong.
The people in the backlog have made far more money here than they ever would have in India. They were never promised or guaranteed anything so there is no reason to give them any special treatment. They have already benefitted enormously.
We need to prioritize the interests of the United States, not the interests of India or Indians.
You point out that there is nothing in the law that outlaws 3p placement. There is also nothing in the law that gives Indians a pass on the country cap.
You are starting a conversation about changing the law and it should be changed in a way that maximizes the benefit to US citizens. Not Indian citizens.
That said it's in the interests of US citizens to bring in high quality people from India and I would like to see that happen.
I just don't want to bring in a lot of crap people just because they waited in a line.
- So here are two parts of this problem
1) what to do with folks who are already here. I think this is fairly clear. You can't change rules retroactively. It's impossible to defend such a bill in courts.
2) what to change in future. You can do whatever you want. Please start a bill to fix it.
Are there any bills that I can see that prioritizes merit and one that has bipartisan support? To be clear I want improvements to eb criteria, thats what I have been waiting for 10 years.
Also when you mean Merit what is the criteria that you think?
- Denying people without merit isn't changing the rules retroactively. Their cases haven't been heard yet. If they have a pending i485 sure, process it under existing rules. But if they haven't even applied yet (i140 is an employer petition not a candidate petition) then it's fair for us to demand they have merit.
If you don't want to be "retroactive" then the country cap should continue to apply to existing applications and be removed only for new ones. Length of backlog wouldn't change but new applications wouldn't go into it. That would be not being retroactive.
Clearly you do want to be "retroactive" and change the rules for people in queue, but instead of making a change that benefits US citizens you want to make a change that only benefits Indian citizens. That's wrong.
- I am open to different ways of defining it, so long as we define it, and use it to become more selective. I don't want to say that my ideas about merit are better than everyone's, just that we need to be more selective so we don't get a backlog at all. We need to reduce the number of people who qualify for i140 to be proportional to the money e of visas available.
If you ask me I'd prefer a points system like Canada's with the addition of some points for percentile income of job offer. But I'm sure there are a variety of ideas.
- Lol, you’ve obviously not read the bill and thinking from your ass. No one country can take more than 85% of the cap according to the bill; so 2023 and 2028 is not obviously true.
Edit: Indians in queue are not waiting for GC approval, they have already been approved. They are waiting for adjustment of status from non-resident to permanent resident.
- OPs own example proves that the system works and keeps abuse in check.
India's neighbor has been good boy and didn't try to game the system. As such, Bengalis, Srilankans, Nepalis don't complain about the wait period. The root cause for long Indian wait time is the consulting body shops that have imported thousands of low skilled IT workers and keeps getting most of the H1B to this date (Infosys, Tata, Wipro etc.)
Malaysia and Singapore are both developed countries and most of them don't immigrate to US and hence don't hit the country cap.
- Terrible law.
There at excellent engineers from India but they are the minority of the Indians in the backlog. The majority are really poor quality immigrants brought in by the consulting companies.
Today most "rest of world" immigrants are high quality, as are the Indians who got jobs like the OP, at Facebook and other selective employers.
Remove the country cap and the result will be twofold:
#1 All the low quality applicants will be in line ahead of the high quality applicants
#2 A dramatic increase in the number of low quality applicants
That's actually WORSE.
What we need is a merit system that will bring in the high quality Indian applicants while rejecting the 80% or so who are low quality.
With that change in place removing the country cap would be a good idea, and fair, but WITHOUT that, it's terrible.
And no, "the Grassley amendment" doesn't fix this, that changes the rules for h1b which is only incidentally related to the greencard queue. It does nothing to fix the greencard issue.
- T-Mobile / Other BokehmoreI’m Indian and don’t support this bill. I have gotten so many template from different friend groups to send it to your congressman.
Anyone has a template for not supporting the bill ? I’m not great writer and I found the template for supporting pretty well written so hoping if someone has anti HR-1044 template ?
- Facebook bl@ckmambaCorrection OP, it will actually increase the wait times of Chinese in the long run. It will only benefit Indians.
With all due respect OP, I don’t want this country to be overrun with Indians.
- Fantastic! If this is only about green card - why should we have country caps on an employment green card - you can't do a job better because you are from country X?
You want to improve the criteria for skills, please do it, after all, you can walk and chew at the same time.
Follow up with another bill and I will cheer you. Not just that, I will join you in supporting. I will drive to DC and help push the bill. We have waited too long to wait for the perfect solution to arrive, without making progress - let's make progress instead of holding one hostage for the other
- I agree we should have a merit solution. The problem is that we DON'T, and the queue is full of people who have no merit.
If we had a merit system then eliminating the cap makes sense, get the best people no matter where they are from.
WITHOUT a merit system then it's just a flood of crappy people and currently there at a lot of crappy people in that queue.
- I think Canada has a good system, you could go have a look at how they allocate points. Then every year they set the threshold for points to control the number of people who come based on the quality of applications received.
If it's salary it should be with respect to job category, eg, what percentile you are within your job code, so we get the highest paid nurses ahead of the lowest paid software developer for example.