Support H.R.1044 - Remove country cap!

Facebook jaihi
Jun 30 198 Comments

There are several threads against it but I start a thread to support it.

H.R.1044 - Is a bill that removes per country cap that will reduce wait times for India and China green card applicants. Opponents of H.R.1044 tells it helps maintain diversity of US Demographics.

Here are some facts:
Indians, Bangladeshis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans are same people, yet Bengalis, Nepalis etc. get their green card under 2 years (RoW), and Indians wait 20+ years! How is that fair?

A Han Chinese from China will wait 5+ years for green card but a Han Chinese from Singapore or Malaysia will get their green card in 2 years!

This whole per country cap to maintain "diversity" makes no sense!

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1044/cosponsors

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TOP 198 Comments
  • Microsoft rand(NULL)
    The cap is good. I want to live in a country where there is a little bit of everyone, not just half Indian and half Chinese.
    Jun 30 21
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      We need to split up the Indian union to become ROW 😂
      Jun 30
    • Oracle / Eng hsosjsn
      Chinese are AGAINST this bill.
      Jul 2
    • Factual wINg53
      If you don't like half Chinese half indian, Why do you work for Ms then....
      Jul 4
    • Qualcomm GoTAlgo?
      Agree with Yolo, we need to split up Indian Union. So only Telangana and Andhra will have 150 year wait. 😂😂😂
      Jul 10
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Ask Chinese EB5 visa applicants. Their quota problems will be alleviated by this.
      Jul 12
  • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
    To those who talk about “diversity”, caps or no caps, GC or no GC you’ll have Indians and Chinese taking up 95% of H1B’s/L1 every year, file green card, get approved for it ( I-140 ) and wait in queue forever with the hope they will someday become current to “adjust” their status to permanent resident. Weather you support it or not, you’re diversity claim is BS. If you really want diversity, you should have “country caps” for H1B/L1 too; because H1B/L1 provides a path to citizenship. There would be no backlog if you have country cap on H1B, L1 work visa’s.

    The only “benefit” from all this is that wages will go up, companies will scramble to pay more because people will be free to change jobs without fear or wait for GC. You can side with the “corporate greed” and think it only benefits Indians, but the lack of labor mobility is suppressing wages.

    Most of you just don’t get it IMO, you don’t know the system enough and just make blanket statements “we want diversity”, “of this means Indians first” lol.. grow up and look at the larger picture of how corporate greed wishes this bill is never passed.

    Lastly, I’m on H1B myself. I’ve made enough and have enough money from inheritance to retire early in India and lead a King’s life. What’s stopping me from leaving now? Have juicy upcoming vests for both me and my spouse and a kid on the way ( will be US citizen ). I’ll sell my $1.7M house, liquify all the assets and do a multi million wire transfer on my way out. Thanks but the money is going elsewhere, and I know many will wait for the GC but when people start leaving millions of $$’s will be gone. Pooof!!

    Edit: I won’t pay 500k + 100k legal and filing fee for EB5, that’s backlogged too
    Jun 30 11
    • Facebook okse
      Illegal immigrants from warzones fleeing drugwars in South America or Syria is different than fraudster gaming us immigration. Don't mix the two. I would gladly support illegal immigrants from India if they were fleeing life threatening situation.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      If these people waiting to adjust status to PR are fraudsters gaming the system, why were they approved for GC in the 1st place? Why does their H1B keep getting renewed if they are fraudsters? Something just doesn’t add up.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon clxR4e
      I don't give a flying fuck about foreigners and their needs. I really don't.

      We DO need high skilled workers in this country and there are many in India who fit the bill. I want those people to come here because it's good for this country to bring in high quality people like that, wherever they come from, and lots do come from India.

      But I don't want the zillion other low skilled Indians coming.

      Get the merit system working and Indian applications would probably not exceed the country cap. That said, with a merit system I have no problem removing the country cap as well.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      Finally someone has a proposal :) sure, I buy into it but Dems would never allow for anything like it to pass. So we are in a deadlock forever
      Jun 30
    • Oracle Gt69hy
      India currently gets more green cards than all of Europe combined. Our congress thinks we should give them 100% if the visas AND they tried to pass this with unanimous consent . Please call your congressperson tomorrow and more importantly call your senator. It only takes 5 mins to leave a comment. There is no wait.
      Jun 30
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    1. H1b is not diverse, it’s skill based. Even if we raise the minimum wage criteria for H1B, what you get will still be Indians. Over next 10-20 years a huge part of population will live here under temporary visas. Almost All of them will be Indians. 2. Most of these Indians (80-90%) will eventually be a citizen in this country once their first US born kid turns 21. 3. A big chunk of these guys are actually having US degrees. 64% of doctoral and 68% of CS masters students were international in 2017 and most of them actually from India. 4. Of the companies lose their ability to hire best talent from worldwide they will ramp up their Canada centers and people can come from Canada en made to the US. They will all be Indian Canadians. With all these reasons, it’s meaningless to oppose this legislation. I understand there will be people who will lose in short term but that was anyway inevitable. I’m a US citizen of Indian origin and I support this legislation.
    Jun 30 49
    • Amazon clxR4e
      I don't see why we need to reduce family quotas. Just award the employment visas in stack ranked order by points, within the current limits. Give points for this like US education, US experience, age, priority occupations, and above median salary. Whether we award 10k or 100k visas, ordering by points until you reach that number is a sensible approach.

      If you wanted to combine the employment and family systems into a single system that's easy too. Just award points for having family in the US, as one of the measures of merit.

      By the way, I do think having family is merit. Having a support network in the country is a factor that is strongly correlated with successful immigration.
      Jul 2
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      I don’t think the current definition of family has any merit, brothers and sisters should not get immigration. I agree with the merit based replacement of fcfs. None of these will materialise. Having a job is far more determinant of success and that makes Indians the richest immigrants in the USA.

      This is why MAGA is good. At least MAGA supporters are not hypocrites. They want to reduce all immigration and not only want to stop people whom they don’t like.
      Jul 2
    • Amazon clxR4e
      Family is an important factor. There's good data that immigrants with close family in the United States have greater upwards economic mobility than those who don't. Their kids are more likely to go to college, they are more likely to start a business, etc, all things that apparently flow from the stability and security as well as more rapid integration into society afforded by family.

      On the flip side, the loners without family here have fewer ties and a much higher probability of giving up and going back to their country of origin the first time things get tough.

      An Indian with siblings in the United States simply has a much greater chance of long term success here than an equally educated Indian with no one here. Ditto people from anywhere.

      Awarding points for family connections just makes sense and family reunification has always been a tenet of the immigration system, in fact, it's always been a greater priority than education.
      Jul 2
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Man too much talk without data. Had you been true we would have seen more upward mobility from family visa recipients compared to job visa ones. We should have seen better performance from Hispanic migrants than the Asians. I now feel like you’re hiding your anti Indian bias and trying hard to show up as a liberal. You don’t need to. As an India born living in the US I’m quite used to it. Be happy and good night. I’m not going to post on this any further.
      Jul 2
    • Amazon clxR4e
      Don't confuse mobility with starting point, and Indians benefit from family in the US as much as anyone.
      Jul 2
  • Pure Storage fBMa33
    I don’t want to live in a half Indian, half Chinese America. I think caps are good.
    Jun 30 24
    • Bloomberg cg_ny
      Doesn’t really matter that work visas don’t have caps because lots of Indians/Chinese aren’t even applying for them because they know they can’t get GCs... So in a way the GC cap trickles down to h1bs as well (not fully but to some extent).
      Jun 30
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      ^^ Can or Can’t?
      Jun 30
    • Bloomberg cg_ny
      Oops fixed
      Jun 30
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      Universities are losing revenue as well with the decreasing international student turnout, mostly made up of Indians and Chinese.. but that’s a different topic. They are hiking fees to stay afloat
      Jun 30
    • Pure Storage fBMa33
      There are a lot of things that are wrong with Universities in US. International student enrollment is a tiny part of the problem & an unpopular issue to much of US voters.
      Jul 1
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • ANSYS lmopqrstui
      Now go and fill my order.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon No-HR1044
      The bill will only help Indians, and non-Indians will wait endless. The stat is bit off because it doesn’t count spouse and kids, and Indians will keep getting in the line
      Jun 30
    • Facebook okse
      Sweatshops are open 7 days a week
      Jun 30
    • Facebook okse
      I wasn't referring to FB 😂
      Jun 30
  • Microsoft adios2019
    I would strongly oppose to this. I have never seen any Chinese complain about the quota. If we start bringing all of the one who can apply, not only it will drain the brain in India, it will also make Indians come in easier way. Now average quality of Indian engineers is significantly lower than everyone else.

    This is because large number makes easy to game the system. Just see what happens whenever someone hires Indians or Chinese or Russians in high level position. His reports are filled with someone from the same country and others are let go.

    Also even if we eliminate the quota, the applicants from India will keep increasing and the entire queue will become stagnant soon and no one will get GC in their 30 years. Diversity is what makes the country develop with creativity as someone who grew up in a different system and background will bring some fresh perspective. Indians may be the same ethnicity as Srirankans but the system is slightly different. Chinese, Africans, Mongolians, Romanians etc can bring something different. It also checks the balance.

    No single origin of people should take the entire power. I already hear complaints from all kinds of people about Indians dominating the software engineering and abusing the hiring and promotion system. I also observed it in first hand where my colleagues from different nations also criticized about such practices by Indians.

    I am not saying Indians are bad but this would happen if that group was Romanians or Chinese in the same way. When one party has too much power, it is bound to corruption unless extremely well educated. China is one party system. Should Indian copy this system?
    Jun 30 4
    • Facebook okse
      I am an immigrant and oppose this bill as well.
      Jun 30
    • I have seen Chinese strongly enforce "only Chinese" hiring. At least Indians speak in English even among themselves
      Jul 14
    • Microsoft fantasiA
      Lol Indians hire and promote Indians than any other nationalities. They are the biggest nationalists and racists I have seen. No wonder caste system plagues the society and upper class people trash the lower class people.

      I am neither Chinese nor Indian. My friends and colleagues all complain about blatant nepotism by Indians mostly. Chinese, Turkish and Russians all do it but not as much as Indians. That is the consensus. Just see what happens when new management is an Indian. I have seen it too many times to believe Chinese does it worse.
      Jul 15
    • TBH, I have heard horror stories of Indians hiring only Indians. But saying that it is not rampant in other communities or is any less is a myth. I am currently in a team of 29 individuals where I am the only Indian and everyone else is a Chinese. They do not invite me for lunch even though I have clearly expressed interest to join them. They speak among themselves in their native language unless I am part of the conversation, something I haven't seen a lot of Indians do. Even in a 1-1 meeting with my Indian colleagues, I speak in English in a closed room.
      It was a similar situation in my previous company and team where in a team of 19 people, I was among the three Indians and there was a clear narrative to push us out and hire more Chinese. I ended up leaving so did the other two Indians.

      Your experience and sample is not stratified.
      Jul 15
  • Tableau krxi15
    Agree with others. I am an Indian and this bill is fair only to Indians. Makes it unfair for everyone else. Not a good solution, don’t want the green card at the cost of hatred from others.
    Jun 30 0
  • Microsoft
    Hadoopie

    Microsoft

    PRE
    Amazon
    Hadoopiemore
    All these computer engineers and still can’t have straight logic when it comes to policy making. Here is a fact for you - Cognizant - one of the biggest sponsors of H1B/ GC is an American company and the first CEO was a Sri Lankan American - that this company got bunch of Indians is pure economics. First, Why should I as an individual Indian be penalized for this? Second this diversity argument is pure bullshit - it implies that all Indians are the same - we have different languages, scripts, cuisines - if a French and German have separate queues then a Tamil and a Bengali should too. Third, if you want to have a “diverse” nation then logic should be to not get more people who are over represented. Can we stop immigration from Germany then? They immigrated in huge numbers early on and have a huge presence compared to their world population. Fourth, immigration always happens in waves - in the past there were waves from Italy, Ireland, Japan, China etc. so doors should just be shut when it is an Indian wave? Fifth, by all means have the quota for family based immigration - how does this make any sense in employment based? Is it consistent with hiring practices in companies? Finally - removing country caps will not solve the problem - agree on that. What it will do is make a broader population feel the pain - and then we can expect a reform. A point based system of some sorts like Canada/ Australia with more GC allocation. How come nobody sees that this system of creating queues by country of birth is unique and arbitrary!!! It doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world. It is discriminatory - there is no other way to look at it.
    Jun 30 11
    • Facebook okse
      I agree a point merit based system should be introduced.
      Jun 30
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Amazon
      Hadoopiemore
      On one hand I feel most engineers can’t clearly think about policy. But then I think the problem is this - human brain automatically rejects anything that doesn’t serve selfish needs - principles be damned.
      Jun 30
    • E*Trade / Finance cbEV72
      Raise your hand if you ever saw American employee of cognizant
      Jun 30
    • New mKGe04
      tldc please sounds like u are ranting
      Jun 30
    • Microsoft
      Hadoopie

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Amazon
      Hadoopiemore
      ETrade - that’s a non-argument - it’s an American company started by a Sri Lankan American - it is not the fault of India as a nation-state if it is “exploiting” visa/ GC - ban it for all I care but I don’t see why any Indian individual should be penalized for it. For that matter it is not the fault of Indians or Indian nation state if any company is overusing the visa. And I am sure there are many many Americans employed at Cognizant - don’t make nonsensical claims. Here is an idea - how about you propose a quota of allowable h1/ gc by company - tell me what’s wrong with that idea?
      Jun 30
  • New mKGe04
    You have no one to blame but your own contracting companies. Caps are good. I want to live in a diverse country.
    Jun 30 0
  • Netflix mr.clippy
    Because removing the caps let’s India and China monopolize the GC system and makes every other country in the world wait longer. Creating the very problem our current immigration system was designed to prevent.

    The only fair system is the one we have. Random lottery and per country cap. Country lines and sovereignty exist purposefully. We’re not all the same. Remove the caps and India and China monopolize the system. Use a point system and fraud and corruption will monopolize the system. Get rid of birth country origin and people will cheat by immigrating to some small proxy country as a means to jump the line to the US.

    Can’t hack our current system. If India has a long wait, it’s because there’s too many Indians. Sorry about that. But I have yet to see a more fair system than what we have.

    Get rid of the low skilled body shop candidates flooding the queue. That would be a better start. This bill is just going to make it worse for everyone and benefit only India and maybe China.
    Jun 30 4
    • Amazon clxR4e
      It will get worse for China. It only really benefits the Indian body shops.

      The average Indian doesn't care that it ruins it for everyone, they only care about themselves. Same attitude that has made India one of the most polluted places.
      Jun 30
    • Google ne9rZ
      You can weigh quotas by national population but Indians will still be screwed.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon clxR4e
      Indians are screwed by the flood of low quality applications from India, not the quota. India already gets close to half the employment visas even though it's less than a fifth of the population.

      It's not a problem with the cap, it's a problem with the volume of applications.

      We need a solution that cuts down on the number of applications, specifically, the ones filed by the body shops. Get rid of this and there would be no backlog.
      Jun 30
    • Microsoft adios2019
      India takes over 70% of H1B. I am curious about L1.
      Jul 2
  • Facebook sdfdcgdsh
    Thanks for bringing to my attention just sent email to my US rep and 2 Senators asking them to vote against. Caps are a good thing.
    Jun 30 1
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      If you live the south Bay, Kamla and Zoe co-sponsored the respective senate and house bills.. lol.. threaten to leave the constituency as your next step!
      Jun 30
  • Tableau / Eng
    ThePhreak

    Tableau Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    ThePhreakmore
    Do you really think people will vote for this, even if it were "right" or the "fair" choice?.
    This bill only benefits Indians over everyone else. Americans won't fight for it
    Jun 30 1
    • Oracle Gt69hy
      It almost passed the senate with unanimous consent, congress has no idea of the opposition to this bill. Did you write to your senator ?
      Jun 30
  • Tableau / Eng
    ThePhreak

    Tableau Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    ThePhreakmore
    By your own explanation, it is not racist
    Jun 30 1
    • Facebook jaihi
      OP
      Fair point. Updated title
      Jun 30
  • Amazon clxR4e
    This will drive wages down. There will be a huge influx of cheap Indian labor.
    Jun 30 12
    • Amazon clxR4e
      This isn't about who did anything wrong.

      The people in the backlog have made far more money here than they ever would have in India. They were never promised or guaranteed anything so there is no reason to give them any special treatment. They have already benefitted enormously.

      We need to prioritize the interests of the United States, not the interests of India or Indians.

      You point out that there is nothing in the law that outlaws 3p placement. There is also nothing in the law that gives Indians a pass on the country cap.

      You are starting a conversation about changing the law and it should be changed in a way that maximizes the benefit to US citizens. Not Indian citizens.

      That said it's in the interests of US citizens to bring in high quality people from India and I would like to see that happen.

      I just don't want to bring in a lot of crap people just because they waited in a line.
      Jun 30
    • Google / Eng backlogged
      So here are two parts of this problem
      1) what to do with folks who are already here. I think this is fairly clear. You can't change rules retroactively. It's impossible to defend such a bill in courts.
      2) what to change in future. You can do whatever you want. Please start a bill to fix it.

      Are there any bills that I can see that prioritizes merit and one that has bipartisan support? To be clear I want improvements to eb criteria, thats what I have been waiting for 10 years.

      Also when you mean Merit what is the criteria that you think?
      Jul 1
    • Amazon clxR4e
      Denying people without merit isn't changing the rules retroactively. Their cases haven't been heard yet. If they have a pending i485 sure, process it under existing rules. But if they haven't even applied yet (i140 is an employer petition not a candidate petition) then it's fair for us to demand they have merit.

      If you don't want to be "retroactive" then the country cap should continue to apply to existing applications and be removed only for new ones. Length of backlog wouldn't change but new applications wouldn't go into it. That would be not being retroactive.

      Clearly you do want to be "retroactive" and change the rules for people in queue, but instead of making a change that benefits US citizens you want to make a change that only benefits Indian citizens. That's wrong.
      Jul 1
    • Google / Eng backlogged
      You have avoided the question of merit in all the discussion. What is merit according to you?
      Jul 1
    • Amazon clxR4e
      I am open to different ways of defining it, so long as we define it, and use it to become more selective. I don't want to say that my ideas about merit are better than everyone's, just that we need to be more selective so we don't get a backlog at all. We need to reduce the number of people who qualify for i140 to be proportional to the money e of visas available.

      If you ask me I'd prefer a points system like Canada's with the addition of some points for percentile income of job offer. But I'm sure there are a variety of ideas.
      Jul 1
  • Amazon No-HR1044
    This bill will only help Indians, and other nationals will wait endless
    Jun 30 3
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      Lol, you’ve obviously not read the bill and thinking from your ass. No one country can take more than 85% of the cap according to the bill; so 2023 and 2028 is not obviously true.

      Edit: Indians in queue are not waiting for GC approval, they have already been approved. They are waiting for adjustment of status from non-resident to permanent resident.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon No-HR1044
      I read the bill. That’s just for the first three years, and the cap will be removed completely after. Do you homework, kiddo. Read very carefully.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon clxR4e
      Indians already get 46% of the visas but are only 17% of the world. There's a problem with too many shitty applicants from India, not too few visas.
      Jun 30
  • Quora mDXn01
    It only benifits Indians and no Chinese. Don't bring us onto your boat.
    Jun 30 3
    • Yahoo / Design getAway
      But we are asians no?
      Jun 30
    • Oracle Gt69hy
      Did you make congress aware that Chinese don’t support this bill? Congress is selling it as beneficial to India & China !
      Jul 1
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Plenty of Chinese folks do support this bill, in particular family-based immigrants (and their American relatives sponsoring them) plus EB-5 immigrants, all of whom are currently in line.
      Jul 9
  • Facebook okse
    OPs own example proves that the system works and keeps abuse in check.

    India's neighbor has been good boy and didn't try to game the system. As such, Bengalis, Srilankans, Nepalis don't complain about the wait period. The root cause for long Indian wait time is the consulting body shops that have imported thousands of low skilled IT workers and keeps getting most of the H1B to this date (Infosys, Tata, Wipro etc.)

    Malaysia and Singapore are both developed countries and most of them don't immigrate to US and hence don't hit the country cap.
    Jun 30 0
  • Amazon clxR4e
    Terrible law.

    There at excellent engineers from India but they are the minority of the Indians in the backlog. The majority are really poor quality immigrants brought in by the consulting companies.

    Today most "rest of world" immigrants are high quality, as are the Indians who got jobs like the OP, at Facebook and other selective employers.

    Remove the country cap and the result will be twofold:

    #1 All the low quality applicants will be in line ahead of the high quality applicants

    #2 A dramatic increase in the number of low quality applicants

    That's actually WORSE.

    What we need is a merit system that will bring in the high quality Indian applicants while rejecting the 80% or so who are low quality.

    With that change in place removing the country cap would be a good idea, and fair, but WITHOUT that, it's terrible.

    And no, "the Grassley amendment" doesn't fix this, that changes the rules for h1b which is only incidentally related to the greencard queue. It does nothing to fix the greencard issue.
    Jun 30 1
    • Facebook okse
      It's a bill not a law yet. I hope it doesnt get passed as law :)
      Jun 30
  • T-Mobile / Other
    Bokeh

    T-Mobile Other

    PRE
    Infosys
    BIO
    New here
    Bokehmore
    I’m Indian and don’t support this bill. I have gotten so many template from different friend groups to send it to your congressman.
    Anyone has a template for not supporting the bill ? I’m not great writer and I found the template for supporting pretty well written so hoping if someone has anti HR-1044 template ?
    Jul 8 7
    • Expedia / Eng Anony🐭
      And Bokeh, you can suck it!
      Jul 9
    • EPAM Systems ExplodingBanana
      Haha he pays taxes 🤣 you and everyone else in the world
      Jul 9
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      It's legal because of the First Amendment. It also allows undocumented folks (united we dream, la raza, others) advocate for dream bills, path to citizenship for 11 million of them, etc.
      Jul 9
    • Expedia / Eng Anony🐭
      BOOM! Marijuana has spoken. Others can SUCK IT!
      Jul 9
    • EPAM Systems ExplodingBanana
      Seems like you're sucking it
      Jul 9
  • Facebook bl@ckmamba
    Correction OP, it will actually increase the wait times of Chinese in the long run. It will only benefit Indians.
    With all due respect OP, I don’t want this country to be overrun with Indians.
    Jun 30 10
    • Google / Eng backlogged
      Fantastic! If this is only about green card - why should we have country caps on an employment green card - you can't do a job better because you are from country X?

      You want to improve the criteria for skills, please do it, after all, you can walk and chew at the same time.

      Follow up with another bill and I will cheer you. Not just that, I will join you in supporting. I will drive to DC and help push the bill. We have waited too long to wait for the perfect solution to arrive, without making progress - let's make progress instead of holding one hostage for the other
      Jun 30
    • Amazon clxR4e
      I agree we should have a merit solution. The problem is that we DON'T, and the queue is full of people who have no merit.

      If we had a merit system then eliminating the cap makes sense, get the best people no matter where they are from.

      WITHOUT a merit system then it's just a flood of crappy people and currently there at a lot of crappy people in that queue.
      Jun 30
    • Amazon / Eng Yolo!
      What’s MERIT? I’m just curious how one should filter people out, salary, education level, age ?
      Jun 30
    • Amazon clxR4e
      I think Canada has a good system, you could go have a look at how they allocate points. Then every year they set the threshold for points to control the number of people who come based on the quality of applications received.

      If it's salary it should be with respect to job category, eg, what percentile you are within your job code, so we get the highest paid nurses ahead of the lowest paid software developer for example.
      Jun 30
    • Aspen Technology / Consultant wUHa67
      Government does release the number of L1s that come in every year...
      Jun 30

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