Hi everyone, I could really use some suggestion here. I just graduated and joined Amazon for about 6 months. My team is actually very good and has bright future. But the problem is, perhaps because of its importance, it has logs of experienced engineer. we have 4 Sr sde's, over 10 SDE II's, and only a handful of SDE 1's, and we are continuously hiring SDE 2. And my concerns are 1. I know it's good to surround myself with experienced engineers so that I can learn from them, but having so many of them makes me feel I cannot make any contribution, because they can handle most of the important work. I haven't written many codes but done a lot of operational side of things. 2. I often felt stressed and afraid that I couldn't live up to their expectation. Not that they are pushing, most of my teammates are nice. But working with a large group of good engineers, I just can't help but feel this way. 3. The only thing that makes me want to stay is that the team is doing something great and has a good future. But if I cannot get my hands on it (or on it after 1 year), then moving to another team where I can take greater responsibility may give me more experience? Should I consider a team change, or do you think I should stay here? I would really appreciate some advice. Thanks a lot!
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Is your team doing well? You said yes, they have a bright future. Are you in a room where most of the people may be smarter than you? I assume yes based on experience. You’re in the best possible place you could be right now. Soak up as much knowledge as you can from the people around you, even if it means not having as much leadership. You’ll learn an amazing amount from these people if you try.
I totally agree. But if I can only start to work on some real project after say, 1 year, then it could take probably 3 years before I can be considered for a promotion.
Well, then talk to your manager and say you’d like to take on more responsibility. If you’re doing the simpler tasks well, then there’s no reason not to give you harder things. I usually give newer SWEs bug tickets or ops work because it means that they get familiar with different parts of the codebase and have to work with more senior engineers to figure out the bugs, then give them more substantial tickets once they’re ramped up. Everyone is different, but I really believe you can make this work with some good communication 😊
Let's assume that all the senior engineers in your team are technically good and some of them have exceptional leadership skills. 1. At your level it is the responsibility of your manager to find you good work that will help you grow. 2. If you are contributing at a good velocity, your manager has all the incentive to retain you in the team given that the team is growing, so he will find you good work. The secret to succeed in such teams is to relentlessly work hard and improve yourself with minimal external inputs, and at the same time you should be adding a lot of value to the team. Go and talk to a senior engineer whom you like and who you think will be happy to mentor you, express your interest to work on some problem. Stick to the problem and solve it really well, no matter how boring or hard it is. You will slowly start getting better work and someday you will be owning components of the system. It is at that point you should think whether to stay in the team or leave. At your level you can always grow to the next level. You will never be good enough, so stop worrying about not being good. Instead, focus on learning from others and improving. Focus on what you like and start solving problems. There is a good video on YouTube by Carol on growth mindset. If you are happily fixing bugs without showing any initiative, all that you will get is more of it. Improving the stability of the system is just a part of your job. If you are happily slacking, all that you will get is nothing. If you go to a team where you end up as a team lead, you will build bad systems. You will advocate for poor practices. It is not your fault. It is just that you haven't seen big systems fail, and you haven't built a single big system yet successfully.
Thanks! I guess I will stick around here and try to learn more.
Short answer to your question: add value to the team by working hard on important problems no matter how boring or hard it is. Help senior engineers in your team by taking up some implementation or productionization stuff. They will help you in return. Watch out for those evil people and stay away from them. Don't let anyone exploit you.
That’s a pretty junior team. Need to get some actual leader and a principle or two.
Unfortunately, very few teams at Amazon have dedicated principal+ engineers. However, if there is some important initiative in the team, they will loop in the principal+ engineers for their input. If there is a complex code change made to a critical system, they will send it to review to a principal engineer. A team with four senior SDEs is a fairly senior team. Have you ever worked at Amazon before?
Not sure about your company. But I think in Amazon having 4 Sr SDE on one team is not very common. And we do have one principle. I personally think that they are good, not just experienced, and can lead the team and make good decisions
One other thing that I don't think was addressed was your #2 concern about not living up to their expectations. Try to realize that a senior is just a junior who made enough mistakes to be senior. I try to give my newer engineers enough latitude to fail, to a certain extent. I don't think poorly of them for it, as long as they learn from it. As a "senior" engineer there's some balancing act of driving success while allowing for real learning. People can tell you that you're wrong, but it's also helpful to just try something and realize it didn't work out and try to avoid that mistake in the future. For better or worse, I don't try to tightly manage my Jr devs. The good ones will understand how they messed up and will try to do better next time. We'll lose a bit of time in the short term, but they'll be getting the experience that makes them "Sr". I don't begrudge someone not making perfect decisions in a situation they've never encountered. I just want to see them learn and improve. My team would consider me a senior expert, but I'm just a person who has had time to make enough mistakes that I can now sniff them out in advance. I suffered badly from imposter syndrome, too - at least make sure you're aware of it. If you're actually good, it might be a crippling influence. In an anonymous forum, though, I don't know how to suggest it vs Dunning-Kruger for any given individual.
And for what it's worth, "too many experienced engineers" seems impossible unless the team is disfunctional. As others mentioned, what a great way to learn through code review and design discussions. I love being around people who know more than I do.
Sde3 here. Move. While what people are saying is true and you can probably get promoted on your team, your ownership will suck. Dont be on a team where empire building is rampant if your goal is self growth. You will want to own big chunks of shit. That is how you make impact. My SDE1 project was really an sde3 project. My SDE2 projects were PE level. That's how I was promoted, and I learned a shit load. On the other hand don't join a team that is junior. You still want to learn from others, bounce ideas and have people checking your work and giving feedback. Best balance is in the middle.
Are you doing the work of a senior PE now, being a sdex? 😂 your manager must be lucky to have to you in the team. Will he be reporting to you soon?
Google guy is just jealous because his projects are peanut sized. Churning out 5 lines of code a month and getting patted on the back for a product nobody uses
"I haven't written many codes". Lol
What is your problem? Holiday stress? Family got you down?
Why’s wrong with you? No one is insane to move to a shithole