Politics

Trump's Wall

LinkedIn / Eng
tucd

LinkedInEng

PRE
Intel Corporation
tucdmore
Jan 8

I am left leaning. But I see no problem with Trump's idea of wall. What the hell is Dems problem if he only wants to stop "illegal immigration". Am I missing something?

comments

Add a comment
  • Google / Engligma🐔
    It costs >5billion you moron
    Jan 831
    • Google / Engligma🐔
      Lol Republicans got triggered that Democrats wanted to give birth control and health care to people and shut down the government in 2013.

      The wall is unpopular, extremely expensive, and stupid.

      Sorry no wall for you. 🤣
      Jan 9
    • Primer AI Darkcold
      If you believe 5B is the price, you need to work on your critical reasoning. 5B is the price that makes you feel all fuzzy inside. The cost of building something involves over run of budgets, operational and maintenance costs.
      Jan 9
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      India, Israel, Jordan all have walls. Israel's wall is to explicitly keep it from bring demographically swamped (but they also racist as fuck, and don't recognize Jewish-non-Jewish marriages). India's wall is to prevent Bangladeshi Muslims from swamping non-Muslim states. Glad USA is willing to take in everyone from everywhere, at rates that transform places beyond recognition in one generation, regardless of education and cultural comparability.
      Jan 9
    • Xkl, citation needed regarding Israeli marriages.
      Jan 9
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      Jan 9
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      Btw, the Modi government in India is equally despicable, and would like to rid India of Muslims if given a chance
      Jan 10
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      Finally, to clarify my position: I support legal immigration to the US, at a reasonable pace, and with pressure to assimilate. Legal immigrants should also be picked using a points system that is based on skills, not by optimizing for overall human good (I mean, it's pretty reasonable to want a country to optimize for the welfare of its citizenry primarily).
      Jan 10
    • Skilled migration is different to humanitarian migration. If you shut down the latter, you'd only get people in the former category who are terrible enough to not care about humanitarianism.
      Jan 10
    • New / Mgmtrs39
      Only reason dems don’t want wall is because trump is pushing for it!!!
      Jan 12
  • It won't work, and it's a symbol of his xenophobia and incitement of hatred.
    Jan 822
    • Apple / Ops^H^H^H
      You can not compare a lock on a door or a fence/wall around a house to a border wall. It’s not the same thing at all.
      Jan 8
    • Oracle ypoint
      Yeah, Trump's wall is xenophobic. It would have been ok if it was Schumer's wall. It's like at work, where someone takes credit for your idea, so you discredit the idea and your rival. 😀
      Jan 8
    • It's a principled argument. Sure, the dollars aren't much compared to the budget (though I'm guessing NPR or PBS would love that much money), but it's really not the issue.

      Trump's strength is that he has splintered opposition around various practical arguments, so the principled argument is the one that is easier to anchor to.
      Jan 9
    • Lyft swetool
      Disagree with your premise. Policy is all that matters, the rest is theater for the dumb masses
      Jan 9
    • Oracle ypoint
      Will the wall become okay after Trump's no longer president? That's just ridiculous and hypocritical, and like swetool said, for the dumb masses. The politicians don't like solving problems. They just like people to get angry about them.
      Jan 9
    • Google / Eng
      lena33

      GoogleEng

      PRE
      Salesforce
      lena33more
      There are so many people going through the border illegally. The whole South America. My friend works in Macy's and she has 2 people that did it. A lot of illegal immigrants come through Mexico border.
      Jan 9
    • Also, I was reading up on it, and the claim that the Democrats supported the wall is a lie anyway.
      Jan 9
    • Oracle ypoint
      Yeah, the Secure Fence Act of 2006 was Bush's blind poll and senators Obama and Schumer and 78 others were trolling.
      Jan 9
    • That's for a fence, right? Like, the current fence, which the Democrats are even currently willing to repair. That's hardly an impregnable barrier running the whole border. What's your point?
      Jan 9
    • Oracle ypoint
      So, what exactly is the objection to the barrier? Do you think they wanted to fool people with a barrier that can be penetrated? I suppose, not. That's the point.
      Jan 9
  • eBay / Eng
    max99

    eBayEng

    BIO
    Software Engineer.
    max99more
    A. Why not just resolve it like adults? Instead of taking Govt. hostages?
    B. If you say yes to his tantrum now, he wins and Dems loose.
    C. We have million other things to solve.
    D. Why not a comprehensive immigration reform, let people come in legally, even for small jobs and make sure they go back.
    E. Why the fuck H1b never go back and we do not say anything! A foreign worker should be here just temporarily, and than go the fuck back from where they came from.
    F. If we want only highly skilled and educated people, we should have comprehensive immigration reform.
    G. Only South Americans are the issue here??!!
    Jan 820
    • Also, those schools and colleges aren't free. Immigrants are paying their way.
      Jan 8
    • eBay / Eng
      max99

      eBayEng

      BIO
      Software Engineer.
      max99more
      Fucking India will allow people from Sri Lanka to move to India and hog their schools, out smart their children?
      Jan 8
    • Oracle doznuts
      @max99 if they come legally, yes! My university in India literally had a "foreign nationals quota"
      Jan 8
    • eBay / Eng
      max99

      eBayEng

      BIO
      Software Engineer.
      max99more
      And where do these people go after getting their degree?
      Jan 8
    • Oracle doznuts
      Wherever they can find a better life for themselves? We have tons of people from Bangladesh working in India.
      Jan 8
    • Expedia Expdian
      India won't allow Sri Lankans or anyone else to immigrate. In fact almost no country outside the West allows any meaningful amount of immigration. Some countries grant a lot of work visas and treat those workers like absolute $hit (see the middle East). But hypocrites from all these countries will come here and complain of "racism".
      Jan 8
    • eBay / Eng
      max99

      eBayEng

      BIO
      Software Engineer.
      max99more
      Tons of people from Bangladesh working in India in worst working conditions possible on earth.

      And Indians are racists as hell, even against their own kind.
      Jan 8
    • Oracle doznuts
      I have not once complained about racism. India does allow people to immigrate. There is anti immigrant sentiment in India just like the US, I do not deny that. I myself don't support illegal immigration because it adversely impacts legal immigrants too besides the natives. But I don't understand why people are hating those who come to the US legally. What is your solution-Don't allow any immigrants to come to the US? Rather than hating immigrants who come legally, change your immigration laws so that your immigration policies are not abused.
      Jan 8
    • Oracle doznuts
      @max99 if you're going to make blanket statements about 1.3 billion people based on the few you've had the opportunity to meet, then I don't see any point in continuing this debate.
      Jan 8
    • Oracle ypoint
      max99 is all over the place...sounds like an adult who hates tantrums, but also sounds like a democrat, yet doesn't like immigrants, wants comprehensive immigration reform, but doesn't want legal immigrants, seems to like skilled migration but hates H1Bs who are vetted for skills, and ignores that many go back at the end of their visa terms too... 😵
      Jan 8
  • Splunk wmpz
    Why are you so defensive OP? Why do you have to say that you are left leaning?

    You lost your credibility the moment you put that.
    Jan 813
    • Gun control doesn't mean taking away guns, except from people who really shouldn't have guns.
      Jan 8
    • Facebook &GdvK#
      only people who shouldn't have access to guns are non citizens. the constitution guarantees your right to arm yourself. if you use that gun to carry out a crime then you go to prison, maybe we just need harsher sentences for gun crime
      Jan 8
    • Splunk wmpz
      May be guns were appropriate back then. I don’t think this gun culture helps as of now. Definitely don’t need the automatic crazy ones.

      The rest of the world is doing fine with gun control. It is just us where we have so many gun tragedy every year. Any way we are pivoting from the topic.
      Jan 8
    • Splunk wmpz
      Definitely agree on the harsher sentences for gun crimes.
      Jan 8
    • So what's the penalty to you if your kid steals your gun and commits a crime?
      Jan 8
    • Facebook &GdvK#
      if you mean a child, it's most likely going to fall under child endangerment which you can look up, if it's an adult "kid" i'd imagine similar to if they drink and drive with your car?
      Jan 8
    • Apple / Ops^H^H^H
      Depends on age of kid, but the legal owner of the gun should share some blame if it was improperly stored.
      Jan 8
    • @Apple, but isn't penalising people for being reckless with guns a form of gun control?
      Jan 9
    • Google memer
      What is a harsher sentence for gun crimes going to accomplish? Someone walking in guns blazing into a school is prepared to die anyway. Punishment is hardly a deterrent at that point
      Jan 9
    • Apple / Ops^H^H^H
      Guns should have mechanisms that ask targets for consent.
      Jan 9
  • Microsoft / EngbebK16
    Assuming the wall works, it stops more that just illegal immigration. It stops asylum seekers as well, since they need to get into the country first to ask for asylum (despite what trumpers want you to believe, that is not illegal).

    More likely, though, the wall will be ineffective, as people will just go over, under, around, or through it. And it's a gigantic waste of money that we could be spending elsewhere to shore up our crumbling infrastructure.
    Jan 88
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      So you allow illegal immegration just to support asylum seekers? You are a poor design decision maker.
      Jan 8
    • Wells Fargo / ITaggie
      Asylum seekers can turn up to border posts.
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft / EngbebK16
      Yes, because most illegal immigration doesn't happen via border crossing. It happens when legal visa holders over stay when their visas run out. The miniscule amount of illegal immigration allowed by foregoing the wall is an acceptable trade off.
      Jan 8
    • @tucd, supporting the human right to seek asylum at the expense of some illegal immigration is analogous to ensuring that innocent people don't go to prison, even if it means some criminals go free. Are you a fan of human rights?
      Jan 8
    • Facebook &GdvK#
      why would you have to illegally cross to seek asylum? why can't they apply at an embassy or at an immigration checkpoint? if it's a legal process what's the problem with pursuing it legally?
      Jan 8
    • You don't just go wander into your local embassy when you're fleeing persecution. And how many checkpoints will there be on the border? If you have to walk an extra hundred miles to find one, you might die, and if they're scattered across the whole border and adequately staffed, then why does there need to be a wall?
      Jan 8
    • Facebook &GdvK#
      what's safer and more reasonable: take a bus to the border or cross the desert? the reality is the people crossing the desert wouldn't qualify for asylum. they're just poor and colocated. there are billions of poor people in the world and we are not going to let them all in
      Jan 8
    • Luckily, everyone from the major parties agrees on strong border protection.
      Jan 8
  • Dropbox drl/food
    Okay liberals, question for you.

    If this wall is so terrible and won't work, why are you fighting against it? Wouldn't you want this total and utter failure on Trump's watch? If it fails you've got 2020 in the bag. Why so complain?
    Jan 89
    • Once the contracts are awarded and the lobbyists are paid, there'll be no stopping it.

      But meanwhile, it's still a matter of principle because Trump has framed it as a xenophobic program, and many people don't want America to be xenophobic.
      Jan 8
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Dropbox drl/food
      Dear Uber, we like legal immigrants just fine. If you need a lesson on the difference between legal and illegal immigration please ask your local I.C.E. office.
      Jan 8
    • @max99 you are already taxed to shit, but the government outsourced the taxing.

      You pay your private tax for healthcare, and for university and for unemployment insurance, etc.

      Other "high tax" countries don't pay all these extras, because it's built in (except you don't need permission from an actuary to get medical treatment, like you do in the US).
      Jan 8
    • @drl/food, you need to decide "we" because you don't have to look hard to find people complaining about h1b visas.
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft tingtang
      Uber is right. If people are so pro legal immigration I should see a lot of pro H1B comments right?
      Jan 8
    • Target BalRog
      If Trump wanted to spend $5 billion to dig a hole in the ocean that would also be a spectacular failure, and A SPECTACULAR WASTE OF MY TAX DOLLARS. NO thank you.

      This is not some juvenile political football game to me. This is MY TAX DOLLARS being wasted on some useless boondoggle. I'm against it because it's BAD POLICY.
      Jan 8
    • Dropbox drl/food
      We've got issue with companies that abuse the H1 program, not the people themselves. America, and American's, first. That's not racist, or xenophobic, or anything besides American's looking out for their country folk.
      Jan 8
    • Maybe you're not xenophobic, but the President is presenting himself that way. MS-13, bad hombres, etc. is not talking about ensuring that infrastructure can keep pace with immigration. It's a bogieman to scare the fearful.
      Jan 9
  • Collective Health makeMeKing
    What you’re missing is the fact that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote democrat. Democrats know hat demographics is destiny so if they get enough illegals here (who then have legalized children), they will have a permanent majority forever. The only way they will lose is if republicans basically become democrats.

    If hispanics voted republican there would have been a wall long before trump.
    Jan 84
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      OMG dude. "Illegal " can't vote.
      Jan 8
    • eBay / Eng
      max99

      eBayEng

      BIO
      Software Engineer.
      max99more
      This is also a valid point. This "fight" over wall has nothing to do with immigration. It is just the nasty politics they always plan in DC. Whatever happened to drain the swamp?!
      Jan 8
    • Collective Health fallenFor
      Tucd they’re children can vote
      Jan 10
    • Google COm451
      Their children aren't illegal immigrants.
      Jan 12
  • Target BalRog
    Walls don't stop boats. Walls don't stop airplanes. Walls don't stop tunnels. If people want to get here, they'll find a way.
    Jan 84
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      But you don't start doing nothing
      Jan 8
    • Target BalRog
      Then do something constructive.

      The "Great Wall" didn't save China from the Mongols. The Maginot Line didn't save France from the Germans. The "Iron Curtain" didn't keep the Eastern Bloc *IN*. And Trump's "Concrete Curtain" won't keep Mexicans out.

      Let's try something that might have a ghost of a hope of working instead.
      Jan 8
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Trump is too self absorbed to think through this. But my point is, a wall is not bad
      Jan 8
    • Target BalRog
      Digging a hole in the ocean is "not bad" either, but it doesn't accomplish anything and it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time and money.
      Jan 8
  • T-Mobile ilililil
    I like what you said and tend to hold the same viewpoint. Too many people fall into the generic belief of everything Trump does or tries to do is terrible because "it is Trump", instead of actually trying to discuss it like normal people.
    Jan 81
    • Wells Fargo / ITaggie
      True.
      Jan 8
  • Microsoft TrumpWins
    Reminder for those complaining about the cost of the wall:

    California is building a $98 billion light rail that no one wants
    Jan 82
    • Target BalRog
      Then fight against it. Feel free. Personally I love the little bit of light rail we have here in the Twin Cities, and would love to see it expanded. But I don't live in California, so if you don't want it there it's no skin off my back.
      Jan 8
    • Glooko / Otherdrditto
      The only people who don't want the light rail are the people who have to compromise their land in order to build it. That damn bullet train should have happened decades ago but Americans are too in love with our suburbs and cars and highways.
      Jan 9
  • New $0¢k
    There is too much politics in politics...

    Illegal immigration is a serious problem. But even based on the comments in this thread, most people seem to be concerned more about shitting on Trump, republicans, democrats, liberals, and arguing with each other meaninglessly.

    Some parts of the border have had actual walls for ages, so it's not something new suggested. Whether to continue building the wall might be a controversial thing, but at least it's some idea, and it would definitely help (though, hard to measure how much). If some government folks have any better ideas/plans, instead of fighting the "wall" they should suggest another solution and be able to prove that it's going to work better. I fail to see anyone doing that.
    Jan 87
    • Microsoft tingtang
      You built your entire argument on a flawed premise.
      Jan 8
    • New $0¢k
      This wasn't an argument.
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft Big Pun
      How is illegal immigration a serious problem?

      By what metric? You got any data on this shit? It’s a minor issue at best.

      They’re taking shitty jobs no one wants to do and their crime rate is actually less than avg Americans.

      We got way worse problems than immigration. Trump just made it a problem by focusing on it because he’s failing at everything else he’s doing. Well he got a problem now. 🤣 He aint getting that wall and this shutdown is #trumpshutdown
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft tingtang
      Sure it was. Your premise was “illegal immigration is a serious problem” and your conclusion is that it is better to do something about it, even if it doesn’t help, than to do nothing.
      Jan 8
    • New $0¢k
      @Big Pun, @tingtang

      Your comments, guys, just prove exactly the points that I raised. It's very sad that you don't even seem to notice or understand that...
      Jan 9
    • Microsoft leet_away
      @Big Pun, how is illegal immigration *not* a serious problem? In 2017 and 2018 266k illegals with criminal records were arrested. Many people’s lives were destroyed because of some of these individuals. Can you honestly tell those people that it’s all the same and probably their life would have been eventually ruined by some legal resident anyway? If someone wants to come to this country and be a contributing member of society they can do it legally. I’m a *legal* immigrant myself.
      Jan 9
    • New $0¢k
      Yeah... +1 to what @leet_away wrote.

      Also, I actually wonder why people don't understand the meaning of the word "illegal". Which means "against the law". And that every person, who enters the US illegally, by doing that already commits a crime.

      Whether the migration law is good or not - that's a separate topic. But, as long as those laws exist, the authorities shall enforce them - just the same way as with handling murders, theft and everything else.

      Whether the wall helps or not - well, any obstacle would prevent some activities, as it gets more difficult to perform those. If there are people at those walls who monitor crossing the borders, capture or shoot people, that will prevent those activities even more. It's also unclear to me how some folks may doubt the potential efficiency. What that exact efficiency would be and how to measure it in advance is unclear, though (this is what I wrote in my original comment).

      The fun fact is that I wasn't arguing (and I actually never expressed my personal point of view with regard to the matter of "building the wall"), but just described my observations of people missing the real point and starting to argue and trying to prove some irrelevant things, and here we go - the first two people responding to my message did exactly that.
      Jan 9
  • Reduxio / Mktg
    Fnord28x

    ReduxioMktg

    BIO
    I love food and by extension, cooking. And also Tech.
    Fnord28xmore
    Hi, I sold security systems at the Mexico border at a previous job. I'm not a citizen, so I can't comment on the Trump vs Democrats. But here's a few "facts":
    1) There's less illegal immigration now than 10 years ago. In the case of illegal Mexicans, there's a reverse migration effect (Mexicans going back) that has been going on for a while.
    2) More people enter the U.S. illegally by over-staying their visas than through the border.
    3) Fully stopping people + drugs from entering through the border is nearly impossible. Cartels have highly sophisticated systems, engineers building tunnels, and infrastructure to continue moving merchandise to and from the U.S.
    (Cartels have paved highways, built cell phone networks and developed ton of infrastructure).

    So, the wall is not really a solution to stopping illegal immigration and drugs.
    Jan 83
    • Microsoft leet_away
      Do you have any data for #2 or are you just shooting from the hip?

      Regarding #1 it doesn’t matter that levels are lover than in the 2000s. What matters is that 50k+ have been caught trying to cross illegally in November and who knows how many made it through. That’s 0.5M-0.6M people per year. Something needs to be done. And so far physical barrier have worked very well for Hungary’s 500km+ southern border. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
      Jan 9
    • New $0¢k
      I believe it's not about completely stopping illegal immigration and drugs or people trafficking, but trying to reduce and minimize those things, to control those illegal activities and enforce the law.
      Jan 9
    • Amazon / EngFakePprBoy
      Damn narcos are gonna blow the wall out in a second.
      Jan 9
  • Microsoft Big Pun
    I love when people say “I’m a democrat but...”. Then go on to say they support something that no Democrat supports.

    How desperate are these Trumptards that go around claiming to be Democrat or liberal and bs? Taking a page out of their Russian friends playbook?
    Jan 82
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      I never thought I could find a person as bull**** as trump in Democrats. Congratulations
      Jan 8
    • @Big Pun, there's no need to be counterproductive.

      OP has not said they're a Democrat. Even if they had, it is possible to have legitimate, rational disagreements on policy.

      Trying to "other" people who don't toe the party line perfectly is the hyper-partisanship that's gotten the country into this mess.
      Jan 8
  • LinkedIn / Eng
    tucd

    LinkedInEng

    PRE
    Intel Corporation
    tucdmore
    OP
    D. He is POTUS not POTWW ( president of the whole world) he has to lookout for his people
    Jan 80
  • Glooko / Otherdrditto
    Immigration policy is one thing that we can have an intelligent debate about, the wall is just an absurd idea that we shouldn't waste our thought or our money on.
    Jan 83
    • Apple sidhgffe
      Why do you think a wall will not prevent illegal immigration?
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft jrex
      Cuz there are tunnels
      Jan 8
    • @sidhgffe, because heaps of illegal immigration is done by overstaying legal visas. And the border is thousands of miles of mixed terrain.
      Jan 8
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Yeah, I see your point So even the Dems are politicizing a crisis.
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft / EngTier 1
      This.

      Democrats always wanted a wall until Trump mentioned it. But now the wall has become a symbol for Trump, so it must be opposed. They dig themselves into a hole by opposing it earlier when Trump brought it up.
      Jan 8
  • Airbnb
    wall?

    Airbnb

    PRE
    Google
    wall?more
    It should be built. This country’s system stopped working. China’s system is looking pretty good right now.
    Jan 81
    • Glooko / Otherdrditto
      What's China's system?
      Jan 9
    • Target BalRog
      What, OP? Got nothing to say to this?
      Jan 8
  • Uber @_@_
    I’m very very right leaning but this buffoon has made a mockery of the most serious office in the country.
    Jan 81
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Abstract words mean sh**
      Jan 8
  • Amazon / EngFakePprBoy
    This is a political standoff. There’s good and bad arguments on both sides, but nobody wants to give space due to the election coming. We should have a mediator unblock the situation.

    I propose Vladimir Putin.
    Jan 80
  • Express Scripts / Eng
    blahmeh

    Express ScriptsEng

    PRE
    Wells Fargo, Thomson Reuters
    blahmehmore
    Regardless of how feasible it is to build one, a wall will help.
    Jan 80
  • Oath
    newusery

    Oath

    PRE
    Google, Amazon, Uber, Airbnb, Facebook
    newuserymore
    We already have a wall in places where needed on the border. Trumps wall is a symbol of xenophobia. Plus he has no plan on where the wall will be added and how much it will cost
    Jan 85
    • Microsoft leet_away
      That’s false information. There are portions without a natural barrier and without man made barrier that need to be dealt with. Also, trump sent the Democrats detailed breakdown on how the 5.7B would be spent. Ask the border patrol agents what they need to do their jobs more effectively, don’t believe politician’s talking points from either side of the isle and see what you get...
      Jan 8
    • Walmart.com ToKL28
      How come a bunch of Trumpanzees 💩 work for Microsoft?
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft tingtang
      I seriously wonder this myself...
      Jan 8
    • Microsoft leet_away
      If name calling is all you can bring to the discussion you already lost the argument. Bye Felicia!
      Jan 9
    • Walmart.com ToKL28
      Trump and his lemmings never operate in facts. It's all lies and name calling. You get the treatment you give others.
      Jan 9
  • Apple fu manchu
    You’re missing the fact that he’s shutting down the government and punishing and holding hostage 800k workers as families as leverage to get a wall that he never even tried to build or fund the past 2 years with a full majority in the house and senate after claiming about 1000 times that Mexico will pay for it.

    The Dems completely disagree with his manufactured claims of a crisis at the border. It has no basis in reality. He’s using fear mongering and lying to say we must have a wall when even the southern states say that a wall isn’t the most effective solution or needed at the moment. They require other solutions other than a wall. The Dems won’t agree for funding until they can come to agreement on the right solutions that will actually work. Not just what Trump cooked up in his head and campaigned on.

    Therefore the only solution forward is to reopen the government and come to agreement on what needs to be done rather than just give Trump what he’s demanding.

    There’s zero incentive for democrats to give into trump. He has no more leverage. He’s losing support in the GOP and in the senate. People are being hurt by the shutdown. Welfare and food stamp checks aren’t being printed. Many people being hurt are veterans and Trump voters. Tax season is here and he risks delaying refund checks. Government workers are being forced to work without pay, risking security of our ports and border crossings and airport security.

    Trump is just insane and lost his mind. This will end with him declaring a national emergency and stealing funds from the pentagon to try and build a wall and then reopen the government. The courts will immediate block Trumps EO, because it’s a phony national emergency. He may change his mind after this and veto the spending bill and eventually congress will have support to override his veto.

    It’s one big disaster 💯 created by Trump.
    Jan 101
    • Google / Engligma🐔
      ^ 💯%

      Republicans blown the fuck out!!
      Jan 10
  • Google gt6N14
    But in all honesty I sort of agree that the wall is needed in some places. Parts of the southwest are cartel smuggling corridors and a wall + more patrols would do wonders to slow their operations.

    Too bad the sensible subtexts get buried under the political shit flinging.
    Jan 91
    • Splunk wmpz
      Nah this is just an opinion. A wall will definitely not slow down cartel activity or stall illegal immigration.

      We need patrols, constant monitoring and better networks.
      Jan 9
  • A less talked about point: putting up a wall on the border would destroy habitat used by animals who don't carry passports and visit checkpoints.
    Jan 81
    • Google EVsM02
      Those ducks are not sending their best. Most of them are quacks I tell you !
      Jan 8
  • Dropbox drl/food
    Don't try to be rational with rabid liberals. 😜
    Jan 80
  • New
    ex-Googler

    New

    PRE
    Google
    ex-Googlermore
    Jan 182
    • 🕺🏻what a tap dance performance. 👏
      Jan 18
    • Apple ^H^H^H
      So, we should negotiate with a terrorist?

      Ok, that’s a slight exaggeration, but there’s absolutely no legitimate reason to use the livelihoods of government employees as a bargaining chip.

      They don’t have to be connected.
      Jan 18
  • Microsoft Raindrop1
    There many reasons why the resistance to the wall makes sense. Five billion is the down payment for a much larger project with an unknown price tag. Also walls became a lot less effective after cannons were invented (see Constantinople). Now we have things like airplanes, tunnels, ladders, and boats. The Rio Grande river is the boarder for a large area, and it is impractical to build a wall next to a river. Much of the land is privately owned, which means that a wall would require a massive use of eminent domain and the inevitable court proceedings. Last, and certainty not least, the ecological damage from a wall would be large and there would be court proceedings around that as well.

    At the end of the day, the wall is an ill conceived boondoggle that began life as a reminder to an absent minded presidential candidate to talk about immigration. I can think of much better things for my tax dollars to be spent on.
    Jan 121
    • Collective Health humbleLady
      All, without exception, all rich people protect themselves with walls. Democrats are against the wall because they know how effective it will be.
      Jan 18
  • Microsoft tingtang
    As others have said the issue is the symbolism.

    I think the broader question is what does it say when the supposed world’s greatest superpower shuts down 25% of the federal workforce and forces part of it to work for free over a fucking wall? A wall. Not over inequality, not over homicide rates, not over our ballooning deficit, a wall... concrete, wood, metal, whatever it will be, it’s a glorified fence...

    America is so divided I don’t think she can stand.
    Jan 80
  • Intuit
    Nulla511

    Intuit

    BIO
    No
    Nulla511more
    The wall would be great if it was going to deliver results as opposed to a campaign promise.
    Jan 80
  • Cisco @⭐️
    For or against the wall is irrelevant now.
    The question now is can the executive branch hold the legislative branch hostage? And are we happy with that precedence being set, and therefore happening more in the future?
    Jan 86
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      You are right. But both are to be blamed
      Jan 8
    • Google EVsM02
      Nope, not both sides. This one is squarely on Trump. He had plenty of opportunities to get this done and with Dem support
      Jan 8
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Yes both sides
      Jan 8
    • Target BalRog
      Duck season, rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season ...
      Jan 8
    • Glooko / Otherdrditto
      Duck season *drops mic
      Jan 9
    • Target BalRog
      *picks up mic. Rabbit season
      Jan 9
  • VMware / Finance
    acmf

    VMwareFinance

    PRE
    Google
    acmfmore
    Building a wall, beyond anything else, is very symbolic. Being European, this wall reminds me of terrifying things that happened in the past... All our parents generation are marked by this wall. I can’t understand why there is history if politicians cannot use it to understand the present and craft a better future...
    Jan 104
  • Collective Health fallenFor
    The wall will work. That’s why liberals are so desperately afraid of it
    Jan 102
  • Uber xkhd80
    There are alternative and more effective methods of border security. Many dems support border security contrary to popular belief.
    Jan 82
    • Microsoft / EngTier 1
      Such as?

      All Nancy Pelosi mentioned in her speech was increasing funding at checkpoints, nothing about the illegal crossings.
      Jan 8
    • Google EVsM02
      A wall would be useless anyway without more checkpoints and personnel. Ever heard of a ladder ?
      Jan 8
  • Google COm451
    It will require many, many times the $5 billion that is being asked for, which is enough to build about 200 miles, or ~1/10 of the length of the border with Mexico, if it's on budget. If the Democrats capitulate now, what happens when he asks for $50b next year, and threatens to shut down the government without it? They have a much weaker position.

    As for his talking points, about half of illegal immigration comes from overstaying visas, and almost all drugs smuggled into the country enter through legal ports of entry. Arrests at the border in the last few years are at the lowest they've been in decades. The wall will not solve the problems that Trump outlines.
    Jan 121
    • Collective Health humbleLady
      We send $100 billion in foreign aid every year. We spend hundreds of billions on welfare programs when half of it is wasted on able bodied people. If the wall cost $50bil it is money well spent. How much money were we spending to have our troops in Syria every year.
      Jan 18
  • Amazon outoforder
    OP, show, don’t say!
    There’s a GoFundMe page where you can donate if you like. At current rate it will take 15 years to reach 1B goal.
    Or do you only believe in cheap talk and hatred only?
    Jan 81
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Why on Earth are you acting like trump. Just talk some facts for heaven's sake if you know any. Or GTFO. You are not worthy of debate
      Jan 8
  • If I were an illegal immigrant, I would fund a great Tunnel and make USA pay for it with drug money. They will happily pay for it. Nobody builds tunnels better than drug lords.
    Jan 80
  • General Motors hdhdj
    You are so right that it feels like left!
    Jan 80
  • Amazon / EngFakePprBoy
    The idea of a barrier is fine. Defaulting to a wall without a discussion is dumb. Calling it “National Emergency” is a hoax and blatant lie.

    Let’s assume we build the steel slats “wall”.

    If I was a coyote or whatever, I would go to a section of the wall that is not actively surveilled and blow it up with a bomb from Mexico’s side. Then I got a business. Do you think Mexican narcos won’t have firepower to blow the fucking wall? They will do it and own the crossing business much more.

    What if Amazon developed a solution for a barrier? How would that look like?
    Jan 80
  • Do you think Texans will let the government just take their land to build a wall? I’m against the wall but I’d actually like to see what happens lol
    Jan 80
  • Uber / EngnYf6sJ
    Yes. You are missing the point that you are no longer left but far right.
    Jan 94
    • Collective Health makeMeKing
      So if Barack Obama has a wall around his house and barricades all around the streets and sidewalks leading to his house, he’s far right? Or is it only far right insofar as it relates to trump
      Jan 9
    • Uber / EngnYf6sJ
      If you think logical, you are already far right.
      Jan 9
    • Target BalRog
      But since he doesn't, I guess it's fair to say he's probably not.
      Jan 9
    • Target BalRog
      nYf6aJ, you're particularly likely to be far right if you f**k up your grammar while asserting your intellectual superiority.
      Jan 9
  • Apple hMWF54
    Two third of illegal immigrants enter US legally, then they overstate and become illegal. A wall won’t stop that.

    Drug traffic comes from Mexico through China, only 10% is actually controlled, a wall won’t stop that.

    We need border security but in an intelligent way. The main driver of human trafficking is economic. Then let’s start from there:

    1. Hit hard the banks that clean money from illegal trafficking (humans, drugs, arms, etc) like HSBC.

    2. Hit hard those businesses that “hire” illegal immigrants by improving eVerify and raiding them

    3. Hire more judges to speed up asylum requests.
    Jan 92
    • Uber / EngnYf6sJ
      I am pretty sure more than 99% of thieves either break your front door regardless of the lock or enter through windows.
      Why install a lock on your front door at all?
      Jan 9
    • Apple hMWF54
      Uh??
      Jan 9
  • Microsoft jrex
    Trump is not asking for the wall due to his genuine concern for national security. He promised a wall to get elected and the message was simple enough for his core supporters to understand and get excited about. Now to get re-elected Trump has to deliver on that, even if he knows it’s useless.

    If Democrats cave in this will be a massive victory for Trump given the drama this has.

    In my opinion, this should’ve been handled better by Democrats. Y not making it a big deal. The wall will prove useless and too expensive after the building starts and will get abandoned. Trump, if he gets a second term won’t give a flying fuck if the wall is built or not
    Jan 82
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      tucd

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Intel Corporation
      tucdmore
      OP
      Totally agree. But my question is, "it's not bad to have a wall"
      Jan 8
    • Glooko / Otherdrditto
      You know what, on second thought if they took that 5B from our military budget to build that wall I wouldn't mind it so much. Otherwise I just think it's a terrible waste of money that could be better spent solving other problems such as education, healthcare, environmental protection, homelessness, etc. So if they decide they want to build fewer war planes and tanks and put up a wall, then I guess that's okay.
      Jan 9
  • eBay / Eng
    max99

    eBayEng

    BIO
    Software Engineer.
    max99more
    Electric fence with high powered lasers to obliterate the "illegals"?!
    Jan 82
    • Amazon outoforder
      Man, what are you doing at eBay? You sound like too smart for eBay!
      Jan 8
    • eBay / Eng
      max99

      eBayEng

      BIO
      Software Engineer.
      max99more
      Hire me!
      Jan 8
  • Google / Engskrondo
    The bulk of illegal immigration starts with a fully legal trip to the US.
    Jan 90
  • Walmart.com ToKL28
    Let Trump buld the wall after Mexico signed the check
    Jan 80

Download the app for more exclusive content.