I am left leaning. But I see no problem with Trump's idea of wall. What the hell is Dems problem if he only wants to stop "illegal immigration". Am I missing something?
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- Finally, to clarify my position: I support legal immigration to the US, at a reasonable pace, and with pressure to assimilate. Legal immigrants should also be picked using a points system that is based on skills, not by optimizing for overall human good (I mean, it's pretty reasonable to want a country to optimize for the welfare of its citizenry primarily).Jan 10 1
- It won't work, and it's a symbol of his xenophobia and incitement of hatred.
- A. Why not just resolve it like adults? Instead of taking Govt. hostages?
B. If you say yes to his tantrum now, he wins and Dems loose.
C. We have million other things to solve.
D. Why not a comprehensive immigration reform, let people come in legally, even for small jobs and make sure they go back.
E. Why the fuck H1b never go back and we do not say anything! A foreign worker should be here just temporarily, and than go the fuck back from where they came from.
F. If we want only highly skilled and educated people, we should have comprehensive immigration reform.
G. Only South Americans are the issue here??!!
- Expedia ExpdianIndia won't allow Sri Lankans or anyone else to immigrate. In fact almost no country outside the West allows any meaningful amount of immigration. Some countries grant a lot of work visas and treat those workers like absolute $hit (see the middle East). But hypocrites from all these countries will come here and complain of "racism".
- I have not once complained about racism. India does allow people to immigrate. There is anti immigrant sentiment in India just like the US, I do not deny that. I myself don't support illegal immigration because it adversely impacts legal immigrants too besides the natives. But I don't understand why people are hating those who come to the US legally. What is your solution-Don't allow any immigrants to come to the US? Rather than hating immigrants who come legally, change your immigration laws so that your immigration policies are not abused.
- max99 is all over the place...sounds like an adult who hates tantrums, but also sounds like a democrat, yet doesn't like immigrants, wants comprehensive immigration reform, but doesn't want legal immigrants, seems to like skilled migration but hates H1Bs who are vetted for skills, and ignores that many go back at the end of their visa terms too... 😵
- Splunk wmpzWhy are you so defensive OP? Why do you have to say that you are left leaning?
You lost your credibility the moment you put that.
- Microsoft / Eng bebK16Assuming the wall works, it stops more that just illegal immigration. It stops asylum seekers as well, since they need to get into the country first to ask for asylum (despite what trumpers want you to believe, that is not illegal).
More likely, though, the wall will be ineffective, as people will just go over, under, around, or through it. And it's a gigantic waste of money that we could be spending elsewhere to shore up our crumbling infrastructure.
- You don't just go wander into your local embassy when you're fleeing persecution. And how many checkpoints will there be on the border? If you have to walk an extra hundred miles to find one, you might die, and if they're scattered across the whole border and adequately staffed, then why does there need to be a wall?
- Okay liberals, question for you.
If this wall is so terrible and won't work, why are you fighting against it? Wouldn't you want this total and utter failure on Trump's watch? If it fails you've got 2020 in the bag. Why so complain?
- If Trump wanted to spend $5 billion to dig a hole in the ocean that would also be a spectacular failure, and A SPECTACULAR WASTE OF MY TAX DOLLARS. NO thank you.
This is not some juvenile political football game to me. This is MY TAX DOLLARS being wasted on some useless boondoggle. I'm against it because it's BAD POLICY.
- Collective Health makeMeKingWhat you’re missing is the fact that illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote democrat. Democrats know hat demographics is destiny so if they get enough illegals here (who then have legalized children), they will have a permanent majority forever. The only way they will lose is if republicans basically become democrats.
If hispanics voted republican there would have been a wall long before trump.
- Walls don't stop boats. Walls don't stop airplanes. Walls don't stop tunnels. If people want to get here, they'll find a way.
- Then do something constructive.
The "Great Wall" didn't save China from the Mongols. The Maginot Line didn't save France from the Germans. The "Iron Curtain" didn't keep the Eastern Bloc *IN*. And Trump's "Concrete Curtain" won't keep Mexicans out.
Let's try something that might have a ghost of a hope of working instead.
- T-Mobile ililililI like what you said and tend to hold the same viewpoint. Too many people fall into the generic belief of everything Trump does or tries to do is terrible because "it is Trump", instead of actually trying to discuss it like normal people.
- Microsoft TrumpWinsReminder for those complaining about the cost of the wall:
California is building a $98 billion light rail that no one wants
- There is too much politics in politics...
Illegal immigration is a serious problem. But even based on the comments in this thread, most people seem to be concerned more about shitting on Trump, republicans, democrats, liberals, and arguing with each other meaninglessly.
Some parts of the border have had actual walls for ages, so it's not something new suggested. Whether to continue building the wall might be a controversial thing, but at least it's some idea, and it would definitely help (though, hard to measure how much). If some government folks have any better ideas/plans, instead of fighting the "wall" they should suggest another solution and be able to prove that it's going to work better. I fail to see anyone doing that.
- How is illegal immigration a serious problem?
By what metric? You got any data on this shit? It’s a minor issue at best.
They’re taking shitty jobs no one wants to do and their crime rate is actually less than avg Americans.
We got way worse problems than immigration. Trump just made it a problem by focusing on it because he’s failing at everything else he’s doing. Well he got a problem now. 🤣 He aint getting that wall and this shutdown is #trumpshutdown
- @Big Pun, how is illegal immigration *not* a serious problem? In 2017 and 2018 266k illegals with criminal records were arrested. Many people’s lives were destroyed because of some of these individuals. Can you honestly tell those people that it’s all the same and probably their life would have been eventually ruined by some legal resident anyway? If someone wants to come to this country and be a contributing member of society they can do it legally. I’m a *legal* immigrant myself.
- Yeah... +1 to what @leet_away wrote.
Also, I actually wonder why people don't understand the meaning of the word "illegal". Which means "against the law". And that every person, who enters the US illegally, by doing that already commits a crime.
Whether the migration law is good or not - that's a separate topic. But, as long as those laws exist, the authorities shall enforce them - just the same way as with handling murders, theft and everything else.
Whether the wall helps or not - well, any obstacle would prevent some activities, as it gets more difficult to perform those. If there are people at those walls who monitor crossing the borders, capture or shoot people, that will prevent those activities even more. It's also unclear to me how some folks may doubt the potential efficiency. What that exact efficiency would be and how to measure it in advance is unclear, though (this is what I wrote in my original comment).
The fun fact is that I wasn't arguing (and I actually never expressed my personal point of view with regard to the matter of "building the wall"), but just described my observations of people missing the real point and starting to argue and trying to prove some irrelevant things, and here we go - the first two people responding to my message did exactly that.
- Reduxio / Mktg Fnord28xmoreHi, I sold security systems at the Mexico border at a previous job. I'm not a citizen, so I can't comment on the Trump vs Democrats. But here's a few "facts":
1) There's less illegal immigration now than 10 years ago. In the case of illegal Mexicans, there's a reverse migration effect (Mexicans going back) that has been going on for a while.
2) More people enter the U.S. illegally by over-staying their visas than through the border.
3) Fully stopping people + drugs from entering through the border is nearly impossible. Cartels have highly sophisticated systems, engineers building tunnels, and infrastructure to continue moving merchandise to and from the U.S.
(Cartels have paved highways, built cell phone networks and developed ton of infrastructure).
So, the wall is not really a solution to stopping illegal immigration and drugs.
- Do you have any data for #2 or are you just shooting from the hip?
Regarding #1 it doesn’t matter that levels are lover than in the 2000s. What matters is that 50k+ have been caught trying to cross illegally in November and who knows how many made it through. That’s 0.5M-0.6M people per year. Something needs to be done. And so far physical barrier have worked very well for Hungary’s 500km+ southern border. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
- I love when people say “I’m a democrat but...”. Then go on to say they support something that no Democrat supports.
How desperate are these Trumptards that go around claiming to be Democrat or liberal and bs? Taking a page out of their Russian friends playbook?
- @Big Pun, there's no need to be counterproductive.
OP has not said they're a Democrat. Even if they had, it is possible to have legitimate, rational disagreements on policy.
Trying to "other" people who don't toe the party line perfectly is the hyper-partisanship that's gotten the country into this mess.
- Immigration policy is one thing that we can have an intelligent debate about, the wall is just an absurd idea that we shouldn't waste our thought or our money on.
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- Airbnb wall?moreIt should be built. This country’s system stopped working. China’s system is looking pretty good right now.
- Uber @_@_I’m very very right leaning but this buffoon has made a mockery of the most serious office in the country.