Two Sigma vs Google

Facebook Zx4790
Nov 22, 2018 42 Comments

Hi I have new grad SWE offers from Two Sigma (NYC) and Google (Seattle/Kirkland) and could use some help with the decision. These are the primary factors I'm considering:

Edit: Google PA is either Communications or UFO

Learning/growth:
- I feel like I'll learn a lot at either so I'm not too concerned here, but any thoughts are welcome.

Job stability:
- I'd like to be able to stay at this company for at least 5 years and not worry a lot about burnout or aggressive PIP/firing practices (so not like Facebook or Amazon) I do not expect to coast though.
- Seems like Google doesn't aggressively fire people, does Two Sigma have anything like that since it's a hedge fund? (ie. Citadel's known for burning people out and firing)
- Google starts at L3 and has L4 terminal level. Two Sigma starts at L1 and has L4 terminal level. That could be a big difference in promo stress, but I don't know if Two Sigma has a time limit to promote.

Work-life balance:
- I'd like to be able to have a life outside of work so ideally I'd average 40-45 hours a week with the occasional busy week if necessary
- I've heard lot's of good things about Google's WLB on Blind. Not a whole lot of info on Two Sigma WLB, but I've seen a few people here say they work 9-6.

Location:
- Two Sigma is in NYC which I much prefer over Seattle/Kirkland for Google
- Would it be easy to find a team in the Google NYC office to transfer to after 1-2 years? Or would this be hard due to supply/demand in NYC?

And of course, here's the obligatory TC, but this is NOT a factor in my decision:
- Two Sigma 185k
- Google 165k

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TOP 42 Comments
  • Uber Uber|
    Google, two Sigma is too stressful, you are SWE at hedge fund = 2nd class citizen because you are not the profit maker. The real players are the traders + quant, and SWE just underneath them
    Nov 22, 2018 5
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      I guess the 2nd class citizen thing is unavoidable at Two Sigma, but does that really make the WLB worse?
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Uber Uber|
      Let you tell you one thing. Hedge fund is def more stressful than the tech. Two Sigma on the other hand, is like the “Google” of the Hedge Fund. Citadel more like “Amazon”
      Nov 22, 2018
    • New / Eng Mldy20
      two sig engineering always looked laid back, heard from working friends as well. the notion of being 2nd class & wlb is separate.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Snapchat Snapechat
      But is it stressful for the right reasons? Like will you actually learn more? And learn more proper way to do things?

      It *feels* like google eng is superior all across compared to most hedge funds because they have the company culture of giving all the resources for engineers to succeed. In hedge funds, it feels like they have way too short-sighted of an approach to things (so like choosing to patch shit as opposed to take time to re-architect/refactor). But not sure how true this actually is
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Hey @Uber| do you have direct experience or know people who had bad/relatively bad WLB at Two Sigma?
      Nov 23, 2018
  • Google 🌲 fiddy
    Google can get really boring, especially if you join a slow moving/remote team. WLB will be meaningless if you're bored for 8h a day. That being said I would first find a team match that you would find interesting before making a decision.
    Nov 22, 2018 7
    • Google 🌲 fiddy
      So personally I would take a Google offer in NY or two sigma if there's no teams
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Unfortunately no new grads are allowed to go to Google NYC right now unless they interned there.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Google 🌲 fiddy
      Then come to bay area, it's much better than seattle. Just my 2 cents
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Google / Eng cerulean
      Second this on the potential for boredom. Maybe even inevitability.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      I don't mind the rainy weather of Seattle/Kirkland so I'd rather just save the state income tax and extra rent money if I had to choose between them.

      Btw guys, I'd be choosing between either the Communications or UFO PA/team. I get the impression they're not the most sought-after teams at Google, but do you think being there would hurt me in terms of learning/growth or the ability to transfer to other teams in the future?
      Nov 22, 2018
  • RackWare Dreamlight
    Google is a no brainer considering your requirement.
    Nov 22, 2018 0
  • Google / Eng cerulean
    Google hits all those and is building a new big NY office. If location is really important though then 2S.
    Nov 22, 2018 2
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Do you know if the expansion will be completed soon and whether they'll hire right away or do it slowly over a longer period?
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Google / Eng cerulean
      It’ll be 1-2 years.
      Nov 22, 2018
  • Flowcast lulll
    If single, nyc
    Nov 22, 2018 0
  • Google alumnius
    Tell your recruiter you want to be based in NYC. Plenty of teams hiring there.
    Nov 22, 2018 6
    • Google alumnius
      Ahhhhh, right. Believe them, then. My team would take a new grad there but we're out of head count. You'd have to wait a few months.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Darn, thanks anyways. Do you know if it would be easy for a L3 to internal transfer to the NYC office? Or is there usually limited headcount for L3?
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Google alumnius
      You'll probably need to wait a while. It'd probably happen via team transfer, and ~1year is fair for that.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      That sounds fair. But do you know if there's limited L3 headcount specifically for the NYC office?

      I think I read a comment somewhere about needing to at least be L4 to have a decent chance at finding a NYC team to accept me
      Nov 23, 2018
    • Google alumnius
      Not sure about that. I know a fair few L3s in NYC but I think they all were converted interns
      Nov 23, 2018
  • Facebook / Eng
    fb2017

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Google, Oracle
    BIO
    worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
    fb2017more
    I have friend worked at Two Sigma and Citadel, but later he joined Google. So I believe he feels Google is better.
    Nov 23, 2018 4
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Do you know if it was WLB, stress reasons for leaving Two Sigma?
      Nov 23, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      I didn't ask. I think if he choose to leave 2s to join Google it should means he feels Google is better.
      Nov 23, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Can you ask about the WLB if it's not too much trouble? 😊
      Nov 23, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng Carmine
      Help the kid out and call your friend
      Nov 24, 2018
  • New / Eng LaQuicaa
    TC breakdown pls.
    Nov 22, 2018 2
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      TC is at the bottom of the post. Don't want to break it down to maintain at least a little privacy.
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Uber Uber|
      You are just a L3, show him the breakdown.
      Nov 22, 2018
  • Microsoft ergodic
    What product area did you get at Google? That should also play a role in your decision.
    Nov 22, 2018 4
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Communications in Kirkland or UFO in Seattle
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Google Segsigv
      UFO is a horrible org, stay away if joining Google
      Nov 22, 2018
    • Facebook Zx4790
      OP
      Could you elaborate on why UFO is horrible?
      Nov 23, 2018
    • Amazon despamz
      Yeah also want to hear about why it is horrible
      5d
  • Two Sigma / Eng
    TwvJ62

    Two Sigma Eng

    PRE
    Google
    TwvJ62more
    I average 10-6 plus a hour for lunch. But also my team is pretty chill. I think most teams are 9-6 with lunch. What team are you joining?
    Nov 27, 2018 1
    • Uber Uber?
      10~6, how many hours you are actually doing the real shits
      Nov 28, 2018
  • Microsoft FEBx80
    Go for two sigma
    Nov 28, 2018 0