Uber most recent l5 comp

Facebook xxkw86
Mar 14 152 Comments

Got an offer from Uber last week as l5.

Base: 190k
Initial equity: 16k (~$42 per share?)
Cash bonus: 21k
Refresher: ~100k.
TC: ~315k if excludes initial equity

Current TC: ~380k (E5 with continuously exceed rating)
YOE: ml/ai PhD + 6 YOE

Excluding initial equity, the Uber offer comp is obviously lower than my current comp, with less base, less cash bonus and less refresher (e5 meet is 120k/year, exceed would be close to 150k/year).

Some questions:
1. Didn’t expect the base is even lower than my current base. Recruiter said it is impossible to increase due to equal pay policy (?). Is that true? Can I ask for more equity to compensate the base drop?

2. He also mentioned max signing is 35k and needs VP approval. However, I saw someone got >50k sign on so this is definitely false info. How much should I trust recruiters? Do they have the incentives to make more people accept the offer?

3. Is it possible to get 20k RSU? (Recruiter said no for any negotiating). I got offers from all companies (1st tier and preipo) I interviewed except Twitter. I don’t have the number yet, but I would expect at least google can have similar or even more stock. My friend recently got 800k from google.

4. I saw someone post 120k refresher for the Sam level. Is the refresher highly personalized even at the same level?

5. What is the general tactics of negotiating with recruiters? Actually I don’t want to waste time on negotiating. I will accept immediate if the offer is really good.

6. I like the team and the HM really like me to join. Should I contact HM for this?

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TOP 152 Comments
  • The “equal pay” policy is true sadly. Uber no longer negotiates. I think it means we lose out on a lot of great candidates. I’m lucky that I joined before this policy, I was able to get an increase in salary and RSU, but this is no longer possible.

    IMO stay at FB, mainly because the food is better.
    Mar 14 15
    • New
      poly

      New

      PRE
      Harvard Business Publishing, Dick's Sporting Goods
      BIO
      sex on the beach
      polymore
      Equal pay just so they can retain more women engineers and pay everyone a standard salary regardless of however well you negotiate
      Mar 17
    • Retain more women engineers by equal pay? Wow. They need to know ppl still DGAF about sexual harassment at Uber, according to at least two of my female friends, one intern and one FTE.
      Mar 17
    • Amazon hsysysvsbh
      That would be very expensive food in long run!
      Mar 17
    • Amazon DynamoDB
      Can confirm with @Brazuka. Recent college grad and I'd say aside from rent, all my money just goes to food. Amazon doesn't provide much 😕
      Mar 18
    • Microsoft interesti
      Eating food is significant part of life. It is entertaining for many people. How frequently do you use Uber and much time do you spend on Facebook?
      Mar 18
  • Don't take it. Did the same mistake. U will come in and see that every 5b is a 5 year old who has no idea what he/she is doing. Push for 5b. That's the only way to increase ur TC. Also promo process is impossible...
    Mar 14 9
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Pretty fb style or essentially the same for most companies. Basically the one who joined early got higher level.
      Mar 14
    • True. But given the size of Uber, u have to deal with this all the time. FB and Google probably part this as most of them are up high or left
      Mar 14
    • Uber nickki
      You won't get 5b with 6 YoE.
      Mar 17
    • Lyft steampunk
      How do you guys prevent this sort of incentives at companies? Or is it inevitable? And from a personal pov, is this a case of having to play the game to change it?
      Mar 17
    • Airbnb namytterp
      Nobody cares till 737 crashed and killed 300 ppl
      Mar 17
  • Roku kkUA10
    How did you come up with 315k ?
    Mar 14 12
    • eBay devindend
      Should refreshers vest with a 3 year schedule your TC may only include 34k of that. Actually you'll earn less of that in the first year.
      TC is the combined cash in your pocket and IRS pocket.
      Mar 17
    • Uber ihnfhijj
      4 year vest
      Mar 18
    • Lyft NLsf06
      ^ seconded. They changed to a four year vest this year
      Mar 18
    • Spotify / Eng qbeforeu
      i think this is misuse of the term “refresher”
      Mar 18
    • Uber ihnfhijj
      Huh?
      Mar 18
  • Amadeus Trick2g
    Give them an ultimatum that they need to give you at least 100k more tc than what you are currently making at fb or fuck off. You have top tier offers from other companies. Milk that like no tomorrow and profit. Life is too short man. Go get your money and enjoy life!
    Mar 14 6
    • Amadeus Trick2g
      If they revoke, then they lose out on an awesome candidate like you. You have other offers paying big tc to go to anyways. You have insane leverage here.
      Mar 14
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      I bet their equal pay policy already made them lose many talents much better than me. So probably they just don’t care.
      Mar 14
    • LinkedIn / Eng sane17
      I crushed their interviews and they said the same thing to me. Didn't increase my offer and I will up accepting it. I had offers from Pinterest, coinbase, open door and Airbnb to negotiate.
      Mar 17
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Sane17, why do you accept it given that they won’t increase the comp and you have better compete offers?
      Mar 17
    • Uber / Eng
      AywB51

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Apple, Microsoft
      AywB51more
      The Uber offer (considering initial grant) is still like 100k+ more than what OP is making at Facebook.

      And that’s the current preferred stock price, $42/share. If the company does really well (entirely speculative), it could go up to $100/share. Of course I’m slightly biased.

      But regarding the offer, OP — you need to have competing offers and very, very politely tell them what these competing offers are and that you need a little more time to think about it. The recruiter WILL fight for you and try to get VP level approval to raise comp.

      Welcome to Uber :-)
      Mar 17
  • Google aIfty25
    I don't understand what "equal pay" is (equal to what?) but it sounds like they simply don't want you enough. The offer of employment to you is only bound by law. If they wanted you bad enough they would simply offer more. Sorry to hear that because it's sounds like you like the team and manager but your BATNA here is just to walk away or take an offer at another company.
    Mar 14 3
    • Tinder rool
      "equal pay" meaning they won't make big offers that end up giving more comp than current employees. So equal to your peers (similar YoE, title, etc).
      Mar 17
    • So much bullshit. Don't believe that, if they want you they will give more
      Mar 17
    • Tinder rool
      It really depends. Tinder has an equal pay policy and I know we've let candidates that we wanted walk over it. The idea is to make sure pay is fair within the org. Has its pros and cons.
      Mar 17
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    4 I think you saw a L5b offer. If I were in your situation, I would probably have asked for L5b.
    Mar 14 8
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      nickki, thanks for your advice. Do you mean it is negotiable even under equal pay policy? My offer seems lower than 420k TC. What’s your formula of calculating TC?
      Mar 17
    • Uber nickki
      If the team really likes you, I believe there is room for more equity given the current 16k. Base is quite strict so I don't think it is worth negotiating. 190k is definitely on the higher end. The Amazon's one definitely includes the equity grant in the calculation but your isn't. If you like to be extra conservative, I would value Uber stock at $33 ( Softbank's tender offer), which gives you 315k + 33×40 = 447k .

      Fyi, at $33 per share, Uber is at roughly 2x Lyft's IPO valuation.
      Mar 17
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Nickki, thanks a lot for your calculation. It takes 3 years for refresher to accumulate to 100k/year, so probably this TC can be achieved on year 4.

      I heard several cases that the offer was revoked after negotiating. Seems very unprofessional but it happened.
      Mar 17
    • Uber nickki
      I just took your 315k without recalculating it. If that is the case then, you should discount it depending on how long you plan to stay.

      If the negotiation is professional, Uber won't revoke it. There is nothing to gain by revoking an offer. They can just say no TC increase but try to sweet talk you into accepting it.
      Mar 17
    • New / HR
      jesaisrien

      New HR

      PRE
      Snapchat
      jesaisrienmore
      There can be wiggle room (negotiations) in the offer process, but it depends on how well you interviewed. They might be willing to increase offer for someone they really want. If your interview was ‘good enough’ they might not be willing to offer more.
      Mar 20
  • Equal pay is a effort to normalize TC within level bands. In the past offers could go way out of band after negotiating. Now they got rid of all negotiating to prevent that.
    Mar 14 7
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Thanks for the explanation by the way. Do you know when did the equal pay policy come out?
      Mar 14
    • I don’t have an exact date, sometime in mid 2018 though.
      Mar 14
    • Indeed / Eng gdgy57776g
      So everyone at same level gets same base, RSU, bonus, sign on now?
      Mar 15
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      Probably not the exact same, just within a narrow band
      Mar 17
    • Facebook LavarBall1
      A year ago
      Mar 18
  • Uber kvTo06
    I was making similar decision as you a couple of months back. Uber TC at 60b valuation was one of the lowest offers I had. Even though I had multiple significantly better offers, they refused to negotiate much. I still joined because I think Uber stock is undervalued at 60b. If you care about absolute TC numbers on illiquid stocks, Airbnb offers the highest. Lyft was a close second. You should consider joining Uber only if you believe the company and stock will do better or you liked the opportunity on the team so much that you couldn’t pass on it. I know it is very vague and subjective, but that’s the reality. No one can predict the ipo would go and most of your tc deltas would depend on it
    Mar 14 3
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      I think now the equity is based on 65B. Do you mind share or pm me some numbers of your previous offers as a reference? Thanks a lot!
      Mar 14
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Yes, I like the team. That’s why I come to ask.
      Mar 14
    • Uber kvTo06
      My offer was for L5b. Feel free to DM me if you want details
      Mar 14
  • Uber cosmoo
    This offer is different depending on how you value Uber’s shares. If 60b valuation, then TC is $380k (~$42/share). If 72b, then TC is $410k (~$49/share). If 120b, then $$$. I have no idea why you excluded your new hire grant equity in your calculation. The Uber offer looks equal, if not a bit better than your current TC if you see upside in the company. If you don’t, stay at FB.

    You also have to discount stock appreciation. A decent E5 new higher offer today at FB is 190 base, 600k RSUs. Not sure what to tell you if you’re not doing an apples to apples comparison.
    Mar 14 1
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Thanks for your comments. I’m not counting the stock appreciation. Given my base is close to 200k, and my past 4 halves are exceeding so 125% bonus (with ~37k cash, 150k stock), my TC is ~380k. Actually my w2 this year is more than that due to stock appreciation.
      Mar 14
  • Uber bag123
    Most L5’s we didn’t get sign on last year and you got a pretty good offer for your years of experience. If you care so much about pay and stocks than the actual work then please don’t come to Uber go somewhere else. I have worked with enough PhD folks who sit on big pay packages and do jack shit at work. First join prove your work and then demand. If pay matters to you then go to tier 1 and tier 0 companies. We all took pay cut in base for total comp.
    Mar 18 8
    • Uber bag123
      Pay is subjective in the grand scheme of things 5K-10K doesn’t matter. But some folks have this comp discussion all the time and it takes away focus from day to day. I am telling him he got a good package for a L5 than what I would give/gave for L5 in engg function. Managers have a job to keep all L5A with similar packages. There are folks with 15 years experience and whom we down leveled 2 years back. Yes that was a mistake but it’s not easy to course correct when you have 20K employees. This person is not on my team but if a candidate goes back and forth on negotiation actually it’s a negative sign. I will recess the offer as he seems to be interested only in money.
      Mar 24
    • Amadeus Trick2g
      It does matter. That 5-10k compounded over multiple years becomes hundreds of thousands of dollars. Life is too short. Got to make the max money as fast as possible. If you are giving lesser package than him to your l5’s, then you are going to lose out on candidates who have multiple offers. People have multiple options to go to.
      Mar 24
    • Uber bag123
      If he was getting a bad package I would have said negotiate it better but in this case he is getting the top of the line package. Work is not just about package it’s beyond that. Stocks are a gamble and I repeat myself if he proves himself trust me he can get a good multiple on his bonus, a good refresh and who knows he can promoted too. Secondly, if he likes the team and hiring manager you don’t want to go too much back and forth with negotiation. You don’t want to start the job on a wrong foot.
      Mar 24
    • Amadeus Trick2g
      Well why bother about potential future benefits which might never be given because of “low budget” as compared to shopping around big time offers from multiple companies and making bank right now. Once that’s taken care, he can work hard and provide value to the company. But first, the company needs to do him a solid and pay him like they mean it.
      Mar 24
    • Uber bag123
      The company is doing right by paying more than what 80% of L5A make currently. I am not saying not to negotiate but over negotiation will not leave a good taste
      Mar 24
  • Uber GxRT17
    That's probably about as high L5a goes, youd need 5b to be significantly higher. Bonus and refresher numbers are targets, can be up to 2x (avg is supposedly 1.2x). At $50 preferred value, I count 190+200+21=411, plus whatever sign on you get. It's a very good 5a offer, but obvi not the big step up you were looking for.
    Mar 14 0
  • BlackRock becauseof
    Can someone explain what is equal pay
    Mar 14 3
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Uber / Eng
      AywB51

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Apple, Microsoft
      AywB51more
      Gender, not genital. Genitals are like, pen*s and vag*na. Genders are male and female.
      Mar 17
    • Walmart.com / Eng QTFP86
      I told you they will flag my comment for just telling truth. Because truth hurts....
      Mar 24
  • New WmjF76
    I am curious why are you not considering new hire grant into considerations? Otherwise, it seems that at 42$ a share the TC comes close to 360k.
    Mar 14 0
  • Which team/role is this for?
    Mar 14 4
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      A ML relevant team. Sorry for not be able to disclose more.
      Mar 14
    • Facebook / Eng _Ethereal_
      Michaelangelo
      Mar 14
    • Airbnb nGgM74
      Every team in uber claims to be "ml relevant". Do your homework before joining.
      Mar 18
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      nGgM74, thanks for the advice. I know the HM for years and know the team scope. I mentioned ml relevant in this thread because I don’t want to expose too much info to be identified :)
      Mar 18
  • Uber
    on3p

    Uber

    PRE
    Google, Facebook
    on3pmore
    you can definitely get a higher signing bonus

    I got $50k as L4 with 3 YoE. also initially received the VP line and am ex-FB
    Mar 17 3
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Was it ver recently? The equal pay policy was just out end of last year. How long it would take for VP approval?
      Mar 17
    • Uber kettle
      Definitely push for the bonus. Yes requires VP approval but so what. Your RSUs technically require board approval :) Have seen signing bonus of 25k a few weeks ago for L5. He had to show forgone comp (if you are taking lower cash or are losing on an upcoming bonus). Turnaround is a few days. Don't let it scare you from asking.
      Mar 17
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Thanks kettle, I was thinking push for more initial equity.
      Mar 17
  • Uber / Eng Joerg
    Keep in mind that RSU refreshers now are based on how much you already own and what's the target TC for someone with your level (performance factored in). You could receive very small refreshers if your initial RSU grant is larg. People in the same level with the same performance will in the end receive similar TC.
    These are the latest comp changes implemented by Joerg Heilig, our next in line CTO.
    Mar 17 7
    • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
      They're not screwing anyone. If you perform top of band, you still get paid top of band. Over the long term. But it's better to get high in band from the start because they won't decrease your pay even if you underperform.
      Mar 17
    • Uber / Eng Joerg
      You can still be screwed, if under perform, you will get a very small refresh.
      In practice, all FAANGs do it similar one way or another.
      This puts more emphasis on performance than leetcode skills.
      Mar 17
    • Apple okbffvn
      So you will get below target refreshers even if you meet expectations? That sucks..
      btw Apple is also starting to do this..
      Mar 17
    • Facebook kbtbes
      If two engineers getting different ratings are still getting the same refreshers (because both hit their Target TC ceiling due to stock appreciation), then the higher performer is getting screwed.
      Mar 17
    • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
      I'm not sure there is a target TC ceiling
      Mar 18
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Uber cosmoo
      Flagged for publicly calling out an IC. You also can’t really compare someone who has been at Uber for several years and got a promo vs a new hire. Plus, no one cares about your degree after your first job anyway.
      Mar 17
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      I saw multiple cases that LinkedIn l5 got l5 in other companies like Pinterest or Uber. Fb almost only gave e4 for LinkedIn l5 and fb E5s almost only go to LinkedIn for l6
      (My recent colleague did that last month).
      Mar 17
  • Uber nzgF45
    Equal pay policy is what every stable company has join Uber, and grow to 5B in a couple of years and you’ll be happy. I had my review today, numbers differ based on perf. Multipliers go to 1.5x easily. equal pay policy applies but the range of pay for each level is huge and bands at Uber are wide. So 😉😉
    Mar 14 2
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      I guess 1.5 multiplayer is for greatly exceed (~top 10%)? You should be a rockstar if you can easily get 1.5.

      Can you be promoted if you were get consecutive 1.5 multiplayer?
      Mar 14
    • Addepar nAeb35
      What did you do that others didn’t do to get 1.5?
      Mar 17
  • Google zOKe30
    FYI, Uber does actually negotiate offers if you push hard enough (the recruiter just has to push your case up the chain and maybe provide some numbers to back it up). I’ve had two offers from Uber in the last year and was able to negotiate both times. Neither time was the number raised enough to win, though since they try to keep you close to “fair”
    Mar 14 1
    • Facebook xxkw86
      OP
      Thanks, I heard the equal pay policy was out mid 2018 or later. Probably you interviewed before that?
      Mar 14
  • Even if you get better deal now, you won't get great hike and bonus next year at you are in top range of your level, unless you perform just too good.
    Mar 14 0

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