IMO stay at FB, mainly because the food is better.
Got an offer from Uber last week as l5.
Initial equity: 16k (~$42 per share?)
Cash bonus: 21k
TC: ~315k if excludes initial equity
Current TC: ~380k (E5 with continuously exceed rating)
YOE: ml/ai PhD + 6 YOE
Excluding initial equity, the Uber offer comp is obviously lower than my current comp, with less base, less cash bonus and less refresher (e5 meet is 120k/year, exceed would be close to 150k/year).
1. Didn’t expect the base is even lower than my current base. Recruiter said it is impossible to increase due to equal pay policy (?). Is that true? Can I ask for more equity to compensate the base drop?
2. He also mentioned max signing is 35k and needs VP approval. However, I saw someone got >50k sign on so this is definitely false info. How much should I trust recruiters? Do they have the incentives to make more people accept the offer?
3. Is it possible to get 20k RSU? (Recruiter said no for any negotiating). I got offers from all companies (1st tier and preipo) I interviewed except Twitter. I don’t have the number yet, but I would expect at least google can have similar or even more stock. My friend recently got 800k from google.
4. I saw someone post 120k refresher for the Sam level. Is the refresher highly personalized even at the same level?
5. What is the general tactics of negotiating with recruiters? Actually I don’t want to waste time on negotiating. I will accept immediate if the offer is really good.
6. I like the team and the HM really like me to join. Should I contact HM for this?
- Uber TheRealBagThe “equal pay” policy is true sadly. Uber no longer negotiates. I think it means we lose out on a lot of great candidates. I’m lucky that I joined before this policy, I was able to get an increase in salary and RSU, but this is no longer possible.
IMO stay at FB, mainly because the food is better.
- Don't take it. Did the same mistake. U will come in and see that every 5b is a 5 year old who has no idea what he/she is doing. Push for 5b. That's the only way to increase ur TC. Also promo process is impossible...
- Even now the promo process is around the same lines. People run after new projects trying to show impact. No one gives a shit about what they build will scale or sustain tomorrow. Coz that is not encouraged. Don't expect any encouragement if u want to build things right. Conectrate on building something fastMar 1415
- Snapchat BigCoinWait. To clarify, do u mean $21k? Or 21k shares? Because that equity seems very low. To shed some light - most L5A will get at least 3,000+ shares vesting a year, which equivilates to about $120k at your stated 409A price. So unless they completely dropped the preIPO kind of equity packages, I think something is not adding up
- Give them an ultimatum that they need to give you at least 100k more tc than what you are currently making at fb or fuck off. You have top tier offers from other companies. Milk that like no tomorrow and profit. Life is too short man. Go get your money and enjoy life!
- The Uber offer (considering initial grant) is still like 100k+ more than what OP is making at Facebook.
And that’s the current preferred stock price, $42/share. If the company does really well (entirely speculative), it could go up to $100/share. Of course I’m slightly biased.
But regarding the offer, OP — you need to have competing offers and very, very politely tell them what these competing offers are and that you need a little more time to think about it. The recruiter WILL fight for you and try to get VP level approval to raise comp.
Welcome to Uber :-)
- Google aIfty25I don't understand what "equal pay" is (equal to what?) but it sounds like they simply don't want you enough. The offer of employment to you is only bound by law. If they wanted you bad enough they would simply offer more. Sorry to hear that because it's sounds like you like the team and manager but your BATNA here is just to walk away or take an offer at another company.
- Groupon / Engsleepy4 I think you saw a L5b offer. If I were in your situation, I would probably have asked for L5b.
- If the team really likes you, I believe there is room for more equity given the current 16k. Base is quite strict so I don't think it is worth negotiating. 190k is definitely on the higher end. The Amazon's one definitely includes the equity grant in the calculation but your isn't. If you like to be extra conservative, I would value Uber stock at $33 ( Softbank's tender offer), which gives you 315k + 33×40 = 447k .
Fyi, at $33 per share, Uber is at roughly 2x Lyft's IPO valuation.
- I just took your 315k without recalculating it. If that is the case then, you should discount it depending on how long you plan to stay.
If the negotiation is professional, Uber won't revoke it. There is nothing to gain by revoking an offer. They can just say no TC increase but try to sweet talk you into accepting it.
- Equal pay is a effort to normalize TC within level bands. In the past offers could go way out of band after negotiating. Now they got rid of all negotiating to prevent that.
- I was making similar decision as you a couple of months back. Uber TC at 60b valuation was one of the lowest offers I had. Even though I had multiple significantly better offers, they refused to negotiate much. I still joined because I think Uber stock is undervalued at 60b. If you care about absolute TC numbers on illiquid stocks, Airbnb offers the highest. Lyft was a close second. You should consider joining Uber only if you believe the company and stock will do better or you liked the opportunity on the team so much that you couldn’t pass on it. I know it is very vague and subjective, but that’s the reality. No one can predict the ipo would go and most of your tc deltas would depend on it
- This offer is different depending on how you value Uber’s shares. If 60b valuation, then TC is $380k (~$42/share). If 72b, then TC is $410k (~$49/share). If 120b, then $$$. I have no idea why you excluded your new hire grant equity in your calculation. The Uber offer looks equal, if not a bit better than your current TC if you see upside in the company. If you don’t, stay at FB.
You also have to discount stock appreciation. A decent E5 new higher offer today at FB is 190 base, 600k RSUs. Not sure what to tell you if you’re not doing an apples to apples comparison.
- Uber GxRT17That's probably about as high L5a goes, youd need 5b to be significantly higher. Bonus and refresher numbers are targets, can be up to 2x (avg is supposedly 1.2x). At $50 preferred value, I count 190+200+21=411, plus whatever sign on you get. It's a very good 5a offer, but obvi not the big step up you were looking for.
- Keep in mind that RSU refreshers now are based on how much you already own and what's the target TC for someone with your level (performance factored in). You could receive very small refreshers if your initial RSU grant is larg. People in the same level with the same performance will in the end receive similar TC.
These are the latest comp changes implemented by Joerg Heilig, our next in line CTO.
- Uber on3pmoreyou can definitely get a higher signing bonus
I got $50k as L4 with 3 YoE. also initially received the VP line and am ex-FB
- Definitely push for the bonus. Yes requires VP approval but so what. Your RSUs technically require board approval :) Have seen signing bonus of 25k a few weeks ago for L5. He had to show forgone comp (if you are taking lower cash or are losing on an upcoming bonus). Turnaround is a few days. Don't let it scare you from asking.
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- Uber nzgF45Equal pay policy is what every stable company has join Uber, and grow to 5B in a couple of years and you’ll be happy. I had my review today, numbers differ based on perf. Multipliers go to 1.5x easily. equal pay policy applies but the range of pay for each level is huge and bands at Uber are wide. So 😉😉
- Google zOKe30FYI, Uber does actually negotiate offers if you push hard enough (the recruiter just has to push your case up the chain and maybe provide some numbers to back it up). I’ve had two offers from Uber in the last year and was able to negotiate both times. Neither time was the number raised enough to win, though since they try to keep you close to “fair”
- "equal pay policy" is bollocks. Equal to who? It is not a real thing and probably means "you are at x percentile of in the band for this level. And why only e5? Was it "oh you need to be a contortionist at Google to be an E6"? How badly do you wanna join Uber?
- So Uber has given you a particular level (l5a if I am not mistaken) and is using that to limit your comp. That plus how if you do really well you grow faster than a SpaceX rocket. Sounds about right?
But on the other hand you are at a company that values you more (based on comp and rating). So why do you feel you are not good enough at the l5b or above at Uber and are feeling compelled to take a pay cut?
- Uber bag123Most L5’s we didn’t get sign on last year and you got a pretty good offer for your years of experience. If you care so much about pay and stocks than the actual work then please don’t come to Uber go somewhere else. I have worked with enough PhD folks who sit on big pay packages and do jack shit at work. First join prove your work and then demand. If pay matters to you then go to tier 1 and tier 0 companies. We all took pay cut in base for total comp.
- Over four years ago at Uber when RSUs started being offered, I believe L4 was 18k RSUs, L5 27k.
Also, I believe L5 offers returned to 18k RSUs in mid-2017.
So, you’re getting a deal, relatively speaking.
- Sounds like they are being more stingy now that IPO is close. We aren’t. I sent you a DM in case you want a referral.
- Nvidia bdei51Tell them what you are telling us, that you love the team and such but pay is a little lower than what you expect. If they don't increase, then either accept if you think it is worth it or walk away, they might increase if you walk away. In several occasions when I rejected an offer, they came to me with a higher offer within the next hour. Of course it is possible that they don't , so make sure you don't bluff.
- Refresher amount is inconsistent and changes year to year. I can tell from experience. The new comp policy also handicaps the recruiter to be able to get any higher on the offer. The offer itself is on the high end of ic5. Sign on wasn’t there when I was there so their may be some flexibility if you give them a hard line saying I’ll accept at 50k sign but I also heard it’s not payed lump sum . Did you ask to be considered for 5b? They can usually make that determination based on the strength or weakness of your onsite.
- Recruiter is mostly right. Base is determined by experience a within band. I think 195 is top end for l5. Target Bonus is fixed at level. So are Refreshers. RSUs I'm not sure if there's flex but you're on high end (I've seen 17k recently). Your best bet is signing bonus (ask for sure); have them escalate because you have rare ML/AI skills (this is considered of it's in fact true) and that might get you more RSUs. All that said re-leveling to 5b Trump's everything. Best way to get that is to turn it down probably... You shouldn't leave 380k TC for the same at Uber.
- Airbnb i18n123This base is quite low for L5 considering many companies are hiring more people and preparing for IPO. The market of hiring is getting hot this year. Seeing peer companies offering 200k+ base for L5 easily, and some even gave 190k base for L4 candidates (rare, but not unreachable).
- New MegaageMDoes Uber have an ageism problem ? I see that it’s normal for young people to get to 5A/5B levels . If so, what would senior engineers go in for - let’s say those with 15+ YOE ?
- Uber's age distribution is almost identical to FAANG, maybe not with the same long tail due to the difficulty of competing for the high-end experienced hire.
What level a 15+ YoE engineer will come in depends on what they did during that 15 years. It is usually around the same +/-1 level at their current level.
- Facebook SuchATripWhat's the difference between 5a and 5b? Are those equivalent to IC5 and IC6? Is the interview loop different or just based on performance during the interviews + total experience?
- Magic Leap sunday3“Equal pay” here means the comp at Uber for that level is lagging behind compared to the market.
They can get away with that because right now people are waiting for the IPO anyway, so the difference is not big enough to cause morale issues.
Also the public expectation of an upcoming IPO improves the hiring pipeline, so if *you* decline their offer, it won’t be much of a hit.