Upgrade from Microsoft L67 Engineering Manager

Microsoft WdIC38
Apr 10 16 Comments

I am L67 Engineering manager in Microsoft. Solid performer and comp is 500K ballpark. Let’s call it baseline. With stock appreciation it’s even higher. In the current role I manage ICs.

I am in early stages of talking to Seattle area big tech companies like FB, G, Amazon, Oracle cloud. For them to beat the baseline comp comfortably, I would need to land L7 or higher offer. It seems such external hires are rare. In their staff, L7 or higher is usually < 5% people. On the other hand, they can match the comp at L6.

I have few questions:
Can any MS L67 share experiences of upgrading their baseline comp when moving to these companies?

Did you land such jobs by going thru a strong referral or simply connecting with a recruiter?

If you didn’t upgrade baseline comp, what other factors made you switch? I generally feel new job needs to have enough pull, as opposed to push from current job.

Is my analysis generally correct?

Ps: please don’t ask me specific questions about team, comp breakdown etc to respect anonymity. I have provided enough context for a discussion

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TOP 16 Comments
  • VMware / Eng zxzam
    A high L6 (at fb, goog) is not a bad move at all - get your feet wet, get 1-2 exceeds ratings and you can jump to L7 safely. How many ICs do you presently manage?
    Apr 10 0
  • Microsoft DevEnv
    Don't go Amazon L6
    Apr 10 0
  • Lyft lyft123.
    You don’t need L7 for that comp. just L6 will do. That’s also base level for an external EM hire.
    Apr 11 0
  • Microsoft WdIC38
    OP
    Like I mentioned earlier, please don’t ask probing questions about my current role to respect anonymity. It’s a small connected world.

    All feedback is welcome. Another thing I noticed is that L67 can be EM in MICROSOFT and mange ICs. In other companies with similar comp, managers may be managing other managers plus ICs - they are partly M2. M2 in MICROSOFT is usually L68+. So that puts L67 EM at a relative disadvantage in the industry
    Apr 10 3
    • Microsoft DevEnv
      M2s at Microsoft are not usually L68+
      Apr 10
    • Facebook hohoyoyo
      Few years ago L65 could be M2 at MS.
      Apr 10
    • Salesforce / Eng
      Cron1

      Salesforce Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      Cron1more
      My previous manager is m2 at 66.
      Apr 11
  • Amazon Jvxyshdn
    Agree, don’t take L6 offer
    Apr 10 1
    • Amazon Jvxyshdn
      I meant Amazon L6 which is in the same level as Google and Facebook L5
      Apr 10
  • Uber
    2muchblind

    Uber

    PRE
    Apple, Microsoft
    2muchblindmore
    What’s your YOE approximately?
    Apr 10 0
  • Microsoft WdIC38
    OP
    Nuffsaid2 - when I talk to Oracle recruiter before even agreeing to a loop, should I explicitly state that I am looking for Sr Director or higher role? Or lead with saying current comp is x, and looking for upgrade from there. Looking for ideas on strategy
    Apr 11 1
    • Castlight Health whaaaaaat
      If you manage ICs in your current role then why would you look for a Sr. Director role? Reports are all managers. This is a big jump.
      Apr 11
  • Microsoft WdIC38
    OP
    What is the hiring bar of Google L7 vs L6?
    Apr 17 0
  • Microsoft / Eng VP_of_Eng
    Better bet is to stick around for a promotion, as you know the system and people.
    Apr 11 0
  • Oracle nuffsaid2
    I left MSFT last year as L67 M2. Most L67s are M2s unless your org was recently flattened. The challenge with your comparison is that although you can easily beat your current salary, bonus plus stock will be different for each company you mentioned. As an illustrative example - Oracle rarely pays their annual bonus so you should negotiate that expected amount into your base, whereas Google would have a riot on there hands if they don't pay their annual bonus.

    One other thing to consider: MSFT annual stock grants are some of the most generous in the industry (93plus% of the company get their full allocation each year), that's why MSFt had been able to underpay you from a salary perspective.
    Apr 11 0
  • Facebook YMVM33
    Fb Seattle E6 / M1 can probably beat 500k tc
    Apr 11 0