WTF - “economic security for those unwilling to work”

Microsoft WhiteMail
Feb 7 152 Comments

The Left goes straight up communist.

These people are nut jobs. Not only would they subsidize freeloaders they have no clue how much GND would cost or the impact to the society they claim to be saving. Check Page 4 of the Green New Deal FAQ.

“The level of investment required is massive. Even if every billionaire and company came together and were willing to pour all the resources at their disposal into this investment, the aggregate value of the investments they could make would not be sufficient.”
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5729035-Green-New-Deal-FAQ

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TOP 152 Comments
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    sounds like it’s a good plan. Jobs, support and investment in communities currently based around fossil fuel work.

    Too bad it’s a non-binding resolution. People would have to mobilize in order to pressure the Democrats to actually do any of this. Left to their own, the Democrats would probably pass a few unimportant parts while preserving fossil fuel-heavy production. That’s what Obama did... some environmental reforms... but a lot more fuel and pipeline building.

    Also, the OP misquoted: “Economic security for those unable or unwilling to work”
    Feb 777
    • Match / EngulcM52
      You keep coming back to workers should run the economy democratically. This is chaos. It would quickly transition to authoritarian rule. You are denying the intrinsic hierarchies that are part of human existence. Equality of outcomes should not be a goal. No two people are equal. Even you yourself are not equal to yourself 5 years ago. Its not better or worse, people have strengths and weaknesses as individuals.
      Feb 12
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Wtf are you talking about. Equality of outcomes - what does that have to do with democracy?

      And again we return to “human nature”... the “God’s will” for modern people. Hierarchies are part of human history, and they have been destroyed before because hierarchy is a structure, not biology. Hierarchy is part of human experience but so is upending hierarchy. Humans live 95% of their history (until about 10k years ago) in small bands with no place for hierarchy.

      Yes.. yes... chaos - maybe call it anarchy/small-c communism. How could society ever function without a king? How would the Southern economy function without slaves?
      Feb 12
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      @ulcM52 is right. Stupid Ellis is dumb enough to reply "Wtf are you talking about. Equality of outcomes - what does that have to do with democracy?"
      Use your brain, Ellis, you'll see. @ulcM52 said no two people are equal - they're different. Everyone getting an equal vote on every economic process in the nation will lead to equality of outcome. Because everyone will feel entitled to the fruits of the labor of the most productive members. They'll call it "equitable distribution" - the unproductive oppressed guy should get a share in lieu of his sad life situation. Right? No, idiot. It's obvious. You can't give everyone equal vote. The more productive members need to be rewarded with greater control, or you'll rapidly lose wealth creation ability in the country. You'll end up dying of starvation.

      On Labor: Wrong, labor is not inherently valuable, as will be made obvious when automation obviates it. The enterprise - idea AND execution is what generates wealth. Labor is a necessary expense that is being rapidly eliminated (there's a business idea for you 😉). I'll repeat the essence once more so it sinks into ignorant minds:

      Wealth comes from the process envisioned by the capitalist who put their skin in the game and took risk (e.g. loans risking bankruptcy) to run the enterprise. Labor by itself is much less valuable (useless) without the process that brings the right kind of synchronization to the work, brings capital, credit, customers of the right fit, suppliers of the right fit, office space and other capital expenses. It also includes strategy, production techniques, sales and marketing strategy, adaptation to changes in the market etc. You can think of that process as either a business plan or an intellectual property (ever heard of a patent? That's basically a protection instrument for a process or design) Feudal monk eh? Try learning and getting educated for once. For example without the right process for farming, a fool might as well start planting seeds on the sands of a beach and demand fair wages for their dumb labor despite producing nothing.

      In the future vision there'd be no employment yes. But you're free to be enterprising and pursue a new idea that might have merit. Who knows, you may even generate wealth for yourself and others eh? Think about how today you have free Google Search and Maps and Messaging and Snaps based on clever enterprising ideas. Maybe a clever enterprise in the future can start offering free food, shelter, clothing etc. Wouldn't that be wealth for the poor? Actually it'll be less risky and easier to be enterprising in the future because robot labor will be dirt cheap. You can try a 100 different business ideas quickly and cheaply. Have you thought of that? Or is your head stuck down in the dirty muddle of trying to steal money for redistribution?
      Feb 12
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Ok, you’re against democracy altogether. That’s a whole other discussion.

      The equality is in equality of power - no one can directly coerce someone else. It has nothing to do with people all having the same ideas. It actually would be more like a meritocracy because all stake-holders would get a vote and so the best plans for everyone would get a better hearing and get more support.

      Now, if someone’s dad gave them millions of dollars they have lot of “voting” power for no reason but chance.

      Fundamentally you are just an elitist - you think low-pay = unintelligent and you can’t discuss things without attempting to insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees... oh and empty appeals to authority and “human nature” ...and you seem to think that everyone need to be controlled or else we’d have “chaos”. I guess you probably get paid well and need to feel like this is the natural order of the world and justified. But frankly is a small minded, petty, and intellectually lazy way of thinking.

      That’s right Prof Pangloss “This is the best of all possible worlds and it’s all God’s plan”.
      Feb 12
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      I'm actually against inheritance - but you wouldn't get that would you? I'd prefer more of a meritocratic world.

      Equality of power is mob rule - have you seen how mobs behave in Africa or the middle East? You should find out😉 Mobs aren't meritocratic because there are more unproductive folks than productive folks, and the policy they'll vote for would inevitably be to redistribute (read: steal) wealth from the productive to the unproductive - thereby killing all productive endeavor. Have you heard of the story of what happens when you put crabs in a tall jar? You can't give everyone equal vote on economic endeavors. The more productive members need to be rewarded with greater control, proportional to their productivity, or you'll rapidly lose wealth creation ability in the country. You'll end up dying of starvation. Please go learn economics 101.

      "If you actually wanted labor to freely choose to sell labor, then the only practical way to do that would be for everyone to have UBI that was comfortable enough to take or leave a job. Ironically, this is when logic returns to most defenders of capitalism who then realize no one would work or no companies would be able to profit as they do today because people would hold out for better deals before agreeing to work.."

      NO: free market capitalists are fine with UBI. I'd love to have it. In fact that's what'll happen after robots take over labor. Let people choose. That's freedom! In fact it'll open the doors to more creative business ideas involving human creative labor that can't exist now since human labor is cheap. If you notice, I'm for freedom, not slavery. BUT: don't steal my money to fund UBI.
      Feb 12
    • Match / EngulcM52
      MrGlass where would money for UBI come from a tax on robot productivity?
      Feb 12
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      That's a separate discussion - let's keep it out of this. There are ways to do it: the government could invest part of its budget in highly productive automation enterprises (think: Alphabet, Next gen Uber, etc), and the returns from that could fund it. Remember, the Nordic countries today are reaping rewards of the sovereign oil fund that they invested into decades ago. There are several other proposals by economists that are interesting.
      Feb 12
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      “On Labor: Wrong, labor is not inherently valuable, as will be made obvious when automation obviates it.”

      Ok, but in the real world that exists - what value is created by bosses and shareholders during a general strike?

      If labor isn’t important why is labor law designed to prevent labor stoppages? How productive are well paid workers when the “biologically inferior” transportation workers shut down airports or subways? How productive would anyone be if electrical workers shut down power?

      It seems like without labor, capitalism ceases to function at all.

      Which of the following scenarios would lead to rapid starvation:

      A) all bank boards and CEOs and investors magically disappear. Would workers just forget how to do their jobs... or would they find people to take the place of delegators and organizers based on merits and qualities they find valuable and useful?

      B) all workers magically vanished? Would your CEO know how to do your job and do it along with all your co-worker’s jobs? Would Bill Gates drive a big rig and run a logistics crane? Would they know how to be air traffic controllers? Could they keep electricity and phones and so on running by themselves?
      Feb 12
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Stop dodging - it exposes how brittle the foundation of your arguments are.

      There are bosses strikes and there are labor strikes... historically both can and have shut down production, but only one can potentially continue production unilaterally: labor strikes and general strikes where workers create their own management and logistics to distribute food, fuel, and so on.
      Feb 12
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      Stop trolling. Re-read my response. Don't change the topic. You think "bosses and shareholders" have no value compared to labor? Smarty-pants, why don't those same striking laborers open another plant and run it after quitting their jobs? Why the strike for handouts? Too scared of taking a risk to run an enterprise, so chicken out to trade time for money? And then claim the bosses are oppressors looting us? That's a troll argument. The reality is that if the enterprising folks disappear, and the workers who have no competence when it comes to the enterprise decide to elect "delegators", they'll very quickly run the company to the ground and bankrupt the operations. That's literally the objective function of a successfully run company that generates wealth. Actually that's exactly the kind of company that Warren Buffet used to lookout for (worker delegations taken over after the founders lost controlling interest), purchase those companies at cheap valuations due to pathetic top line numbers and then fire the workers to liquidate assets for much more value than the previous valuation of the company. The math literally shows that worker run companies devalued the company. The problem is that worker-led 20th century horse carriage manufacturing company would continue trying to produce horse carriages due to the lack of their enterprising skills and because "it's our jeeerbs!!! Families to feed! No risk tolerance for disruption!". That's why flow of capital by merit of productivity is important. Folks like Buffet can then buy and liquidate such bleeding companies to invest in new ones like Ford. Markets change, technologies change, customers change, regulations change, the landscape of supplies and the labor skills in the markets change. The risk of running an enterprise is all about the skill of perceiving these changes correctly and charting a process and strategy in response. The right strategy wins the market, the wrong loses - in a free market economy it's pure unadulterated merit. Your worker delegators can't do this, otherwise they wouldn't be laborer workers - they'd be running their Enterprises.

      Remember: Equality of power is mob rule - have you seen how mobs behave in Africa or the middle East? You should find out😉 Mobs aren't meritocratic because there are more unproductive folks than productive folks, and the policy they'll vote for would inevitably be to redistribute (read: steal) wealth from the productive to the unproductive - thereby killing all productive endeavor. Have you heard of the story of what happens when you put crabs in a tall jar? You can't give everyone equal vote on economic endeavors. The more productive members need to be rewarded with greater control, proportional to their productivity, or you'll rapidly lose wealth creation ability in the country. You'll end up dying of starvation. Please go learn economics 101.

      "If you actually wanted labor to freely choose to sell labor, then the only practical way to do that would be for everyone to have UBI that was comfortable enough to take or leave a job. Ironically, this is when logic returns to most defenders of capitalism who then realize no one would work or no companies would be able to profit as they do today because people would hold out for better deals before agreeing to work.."

      NO: free market capitalists are fine with UBI. I'd love to have it. In fact that's what'll happen after robots take over labor. Let people choose. That's freedom! In fact it'll open the doors to more creative business ideas involving human creative labor that can't exist now since human labor is cheap. If you notice, I'm for freedom, not slavery. BUT: don't steal my money to fund UBI.
      Feb 12
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    It’s funny how the dogma of this country claims that wage-working is a free and mutually beneficial arrangement for workers...

    but as soon as you start to talk about people having access to decent welfare or public housing, the op-eds and talking heads scream: “but no one will be motivated to work anymore!”
    Feb 720
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      Man I didn’t think I’d run into actual marxists on here. I incorrectly believed that being in the tech industry would be a high enough intelligence bar to keep you people out.

      It’s so naive to think that somehow we could democratically control such a behemoth of a system which is the sole owner and distributor of property. You guys complain about how the corporations exploit when we we have the ability to spend whatever money on whatever products we want, but somehow you think there will be a benevolent, incorruptible class of people who will listen to the people’s democratic vote and govern a system which they wholly control at the will of the people. This is just complete utopianism.

      It is morally superior to have a distributed free market system where people can take self interested risks that may or may not payout to continuously advance society. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a separate governmental system that takes care of the critical regulations, laws, and monopolizes force. Capitalism has lifted more people from poverty across the world than ever, you people are just idealists in denial.
      Feb 7
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      Respect @MemeMagic - you have a deeper understanding of the tyrannical tilt of totalitarian regimes than most people. The bigger the state the more totalitarian and tyrannical it will eventually become. This is so fundamentally true that it should be an axiom taught in schools.

      "Controlled by the workers" my ass lol. Remember, democracy is no way to run a successful economy. As they say - it's like two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Sigh.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      @Mr Glass I have family who escaped a socialist hell hole, so I made sure I was educated as to why it was one.
      Feb 7
    • Microsoft DangerRngr
      Typical. The ignorant believing someone who read Marx is a Marxist.

      This thread is a glaring example of informed and critical thinking vs. indoctrinated and poisoned minds.

      Good luck for the coming years, drones.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      It’s ironic because you’re right but not about who’s who
      Feb 7
    • Microsoft DangerRngr
      Given your aptitude at getting the definition of words right I would not put my money on you.
      Feb 7
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      You're the ignorant one here, @DangerRngr. Better incorporate some humility and learn. @MemeMagic has much to teach you. You're the type who won't end up with any money let alone consider putting or betting it on someone.
      Feb 7
    • Microsoft DangerRngr
      😂 oh I wish I could tell you why you couldn’t be more wrong...
      Feb 7
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      @MemMagic,

      “You guys complain about how the corporations exploit when we we have the ability to spend whatever money on whatever products we want, but somehow you think there will be a benevolent, incorruptible class of people who will listen to the people’s democratic vote and govern a system which they wholly control at the will of the people. This is just complete utopianism.”

      Who do you mean by incorruptible class of people who will do the people’s Democratic vote? Do you mean a “class” of political or bureaucratic elites? Because I’m talking about democracy- so I don’t understand why “the people” would not want to carry out a democratic decision of “the people”. If you are saying accountable representatives are an impossibility and democracy can never work - that’s a whole bigger argument.

      As far as “how could workers possibly manage the economy - no one can” argument - this is just not true. Right now a much smaller number of people control decisions about major investment and economic priorities. These private organizations have a great deal of power over our lives and yet there is no accountability to us - only maybe the ability to sue companies after our water supplies are poisoned or our lives are harmed. Rather than corporate and financial fiefdoms making these decisions, it should be directly democratically accountable.

      Also... did you find the quote where Marx said that forced-labor was necessary for socialism?
      Feb 8
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      @Mr. Glass

      “Feel free to run an organization or a business structured in a way that shares ownership with all workers - all power to you. We can see if your project succeeds - my hypothesis is that it'll fail miserably but we'll find out, won't we? Just don't steal my money to fund it.”

      This is fairly common already - it’s not socialism, it’s just running a capitalist business collectively. There are certainly benefits of this for workers, but it’s still more or less the same as a family owned and operated business.

      But the argument is also in bad faith. Telling socialist to go build model communities or co-opts is like telling an environmentalist to buy fancy environmental lightbulbs for their apartment rather than try and stop companies from polluting.
      Feb 8
  • Google / EngMr Glass
    Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is just dumb and stupid. This proposal is a bunch of crap written in a feel good way. Don't take her seriously, just ignore the idiots
    Feb 77
    • Microsoft aai617vaL
      Ok. You are ignored.
      Feb 7
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      Ignoring the truth? Ok, then.
      Feb 7
    • Microsoft aai617vaL
      You equate yourself to the truth? 😂
      Big ego little man
      Feb 7
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      I equate myself to just the messenger of truth, bro
      Feb 7
    • New / Eng
      Sqrtof-1

      NewEng

      PRE
      Amazon, Facebook, Google
      Sqrtof-1more
      Mr Glass whats your ldap
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft DangerRngr
      I can understand why you are so afraid of AOC. You have good reasons to.

      🍄

      https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1093680562424836096?s=21
      Feb 10
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      ^ Edited video with cherrypicked cut-out words from the senators. They didn't agree with AOC's flawed fantasy. You should be ashamed. 🍄 🍄
      Feb 14
  • There is no such thing as the “unwilling to work”. Everyone wants to feel appreciated and be a productive member of a community.

    Subtitle of your post: “Armchair masturbator loses his shit when catching himself fantasizing about AOC”
    Feb 79
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      Haven’t taken a walk around downtown Seattle lately I see
      Feb 7
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      I guess, in order to attract people, low-wage jobs should be made to be slightly better options than living in your car or on the street in freezing rain then.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      I mean they are already, evidenced by the fact that we have a whole working class in this country that work and have homes
      Feb 7
    • @MemeMagic you need to get out of your golden bubble. The middle class has been decimated. 66% of Americans earn less than $20 an hour, or about $40,000 a year if they are working full time. You should be extremely concerned about this because it will come a time when heads will be rolling if this perdures.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      I think you’ll find that I am concerned about the shrinking middle class but that my prescription is not welfare and socialism. Welfare and unfettered immigration encourage companies to pay less to their workers because the value of labor decreases. Look at California, basically the most leftist state, there is no middle class, it’s just ultra rich and the underclass.
      Feb 7
    • “(...) the shrinking middle class but that my prescription is not welfare and socialism. Welfare and unfettered immigration (...)”
      Does that mean that the causes for the disappearing middle-class is — wait for it — immigration, as well as the “leftist” and “socialist” policies from California.

      Is that what you are saying? Really?
      Feb 7
    • I sincerely hope you will overcome your cognitive dissonance and understand we are living the montrous late stage capitalism.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      I’m pretty sure the Bolsheviks thought they were in “late stage capitalism” (or whatever popular term was used for it) then as well. I sincerely hope you overcome your ignorance and see through the naive, utopian propaganda and realize these moronic systems are fundamentally flawed.
      Feb 7
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      The Bolsheviks were living at a time when there was a tsar and serfdom still existed in Russia in their parent’s lifetime. WWI May have seemed like the end of the world, but the bolsheviks were very clear that Russia was an “under developed” (in our terms) country where there was a mix between a feudal political order and new capitalists. They were dealing with capitalist modernization and that was the big local question of their day.

      However now, aside from some remote places, capitalism is world-wide and “normalized”. The expansion period and overcoming feudalism are over for capitalism, so that’s why the later part of the 20th century and our time is considered “late-capitalism”.
      Feb 8
  • Amazon lolwhat
    "economic security for those unwilling to work" = "a manager position at Amazon"
    Feb 71
  • Microsoft
    Tier 1

    Microsoft

    BIO
    #1 in Prestige
    Tier 1more
    This looks like something a college freshman wrote.
    Feb 70
  • Salesforce hfgnntunv
    OP grabs a paragraph and copy/paste it into every other comment. If you have not noticed, “the level of investment...” paragraph is not a call to action but instead an acknowledgement that doing things an old way (taxes and regulations) simply won’t cut it. That in order to get there, an eco-system has to be created which will fuel its own growth. See, she is smart to see that and admit that, OP too thick to grasp it.
    I love reading posts like this. This a great example of so called “top performers” working for Tier 1 companies showing virtually 0 ability to comprehend. This is a vision that sets out general targets and goals. How to get there yet to be determined. But looks like too many code monkeys here unable to take vision and figure out a path, you just so used to waiting for someone to give you all the answers aren’t you?
    Feb 97
    • Microsoft WhiteMail
      OP
      That I’m forced to live with the likes of you under the same social contract is the leading problem with America today.
      Feb 9
    • Salesforce hfgnntunv
      I know. I wish there would be “naked and afraid” show on the nationwide scale, where likes of you put into pure market economy for a year. I bet you will change your tune in a matter of days
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft WhiteMail
      OP
      Actually I was thinking we should end the Republic because it’s a joke we are citizens of the same nation.
      Feb 9
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      Salesforce idiot - we obviously understand that part. The part we have an issue with is the language being used is too naive, it's like how a kindergarten student would write an essay to "make the world better, yay!" Kind of reeks of incompetence.

      She hasn't thought of second order effects of the spending she's proposing, managing the debt burden. It shows she doesn't understand the system and it's moving parts. How will we handle the resulting inflation when the government suddenly spends trillions on climate change? That inflation will affect the poor more than the rich btw. Your bananas will cost $10 a pop. We don't need idiots in Congress thank you.
      Feb 9
    • Oath / MgmtAtinlay
      But she’s just like us! She cooks in an instant pot! 🙄
      Feb 9
    • Microsoft DangerRngr
      Those last two yellow secretions from brownshirt WhiteMail tell a lot about his way of thinking.

      I suggest you read them again and let them sink in...

      @WhiteMail you are a dangerous stinking fascist, nevertheless we will do everything we can to keep you included in the society. Until you break the law, which considering your mindset is something bound to happen.
      Feb 9
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      AOC is literally talking about nationalizing large portions of the private industry and somehow the person criticizing this is the fascist.

      What many leftists will come to realize, in the near future I hope, will be that their current policy arguments paint them as the fascists — while they go around attempting to project that upon others in order to stir up the necessary political will to implement it themselves.
      Feb 9
  • Amazon MemeMagic
    Don’t forget the fact that the proponents are now claiming that money is basically a social construct that we can just keep printing to pay for it all, lmfao. All aboard the express train (that we replaced all the cars and planes with) to Venezuela style hyperinflation!!

    What I really want to know is how the fuck Boston college allowed her to be credentialed with an economics degree.
    Feb 73
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Interesting example considering that Venezuela’s economic crisis was due to a petrol-based economy tanking when the price of fuel dropped... and this proposal is to replace fossil-fuel based production.
      Feb 7
    • Amazon MemeMagic
      Total non-sequitur, the path to not having the money has nothing to do with policy enacted when you don’t have the money. Yeah the drop of gas prices was what caused Venezuela to not have the money, but once they didn’t have it they tried to inflate their way out of it. This proposal is starting without the money, and trying to inflate out immediately.
      Feb 7
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      So the US had billions and billions for the war on terror? Tax cuts don’t flood the economy with additional capital... or does this cause inflation too? Or - like always - the budget was spent not based on existing tax revenue but expected revenue.

      As far as inflation, the difference between the many financial stimulus packages regularly done in the US and a green new deal is Keynesian economics vs neoliberal. Freeing up financial industry or capital for investment is standard now - the danger there is bubble because more money is going into production than is really needed. But spending that is for new jobs, new infrastructure, new products like cheaper solar panels and whatnot don’t have that kind of dynamic and while inflation is a pretty low risk for most established economies (deflation is more of the current economic risk - and impacts workers living standards more.)

      So really it’s not an economic question in the sense of “knowing economics” - it’s a question of political priorities. For the Democrats and Republicans of the last two generations the priority has been freeing up investment capital at the expense of the general population. AOC and other moderate socialist or more leftish progressives think something like this will “fix” this imbalance in priorities and create a stimulus based on jobs and actual value, rather than investment “potential” value.

      But personally I don’t think capitalism can be “fixed” - workers will just have to try democratically running the economy instead.
      Feb 7
  • New b37
    Having received a quality education for cheap overseas, I was a big Berner who championed his ideas about subsidizing college, but AOC is just nuts. We got one step closer to Idiocracy putting her in Congress.
    Feb 83
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      I'm constantly amazed by the utter stupidity of her supporters. Damn!
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft *cW2x91p
      Have reached Idiocracy.
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft
      Tier 1

      Microsoft

      BIO
      #1 in Prestige
      Tier 1more
      Yeah I disagree with Bernie a lot, but he’s actually a smart honest man.

      Bernie doesn’t even mind clapping for Trump when Trump does something Bernie likes, such as the lowest unemployment for African Americans ever, or releasing non violent prisoners.

      ...As opposed to AOC who wouldn’t clap for anything Trump did
      Feb 9
  • Microsoft TrumpWins
    AOC is the congressional manifestation of the BLM and Kshama Sawant goon squad socialist types who are out blocking traffic on a work day over “institutionalization racism” and rioting over communist holidays like May Day. They do just fine at making themselves look brain dead.
    Feb 71
  • Twitter Oomnj
    The government prints money. How can it not pay for things? Why should people who don’t want to work have a lower standards than say startup founders?

    Do what Sweden does, tax 80% to 90% on any yearly income above 75000. Take care of your own people.
    Feb 104
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      Ignorant idiot - if the government prints money unrestricted, it causes inflation by devaluing or reducing the value of money. Inflation affects the poor more than the rich btw. Your bananas are going to cost $10 a pop.

      Next: without additional revenue, the govt can only print money by borrowing money - they do this by selling bonds or treasury bills, which means a higher debt burden that the govt has to pay premiums for every year.

      You wanna bankrupt the US government and cause massive inflation and turn us into Venezuela, fool? Why blabber nonsense proposals? Folks like you have gotten idiots like AOC elected. Remember, Nordic countries subsist on Oli&Gas/Natural Resources investments done by the government decades ago, and are reaping the rewards now, they would collapse like all socialist regimes if they had to fund their welfare only on taxes.
      Feb 10
    • Oath / MgmtAtinlay
      ^This
      Feb 10
    • Twitter Oomnj
      /s ✈️ 👨
      Feb 10
    • Google / EngMr Glass
      lol
      Feb 10
  • Google dyr3aq
    What kind of 💩 "green" energy deal is anti-nuclear?

    France has less than 1/3rd of the CO2 emission per capita compared to the US for a reason.
    Feb 82
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Many environmentalists are against nuclear because it still creates long term waste that needs to be dealt with... and probably also fears of plant failures.

      But other than that nuclear is expensive for its output and renewable technologies have either caught up to the price of nuclear or become cheaper - and that trend would likely continue as these alternatives are further developed. Attempts to lower nuclear costs have not been effective and this tech is already more developed.
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft
      Tier 1

      Microsoft

      BIO
      #1 in Prestige
      Tier 1more
      “Renewables” aren’t cheaper as they still need base load, which needs to be running on standby 24/7.

      Nuclear (fission or if we ever can, fusion) is the only long term option that makes economic sense. It also just so happens to be incredibly clean.
      Feb 9
  • Microsoft DangerRngr
    😂 OP: How did you end up on NPR in the first place?
    Feb 71
    • Bossa Nova Robotics Pjjq85
      His name is White Mail. He goes there to trigger himself.
      Feb 7
  • Microsoft *cW2x91p
    idiocy
    Feb 70
  • Microsoft DangerRngr
    😂 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-28/another-year-another-1-trillion-in-new-debt-for-u-s-to-raise

    The USD is a bitcoin level scam that only exists because China does not get rid of their US bond and the petrodollar trick.
    Feb 100
  • AOC click-baited :-D
    Feb 70
  • Bossa Nova Robotics Pjjq85
    OK Bro.
    Feb 70

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