Heard that it was about the drivers striking and how they are not getting paid fairly...How is this going to impact IPO?
- Uber / DatabYxS45No Impact, they can strike all they want. The problem is they are asking for full time jobs as Uber drivers with benefits and they want a union so they want to be like the monopoly of taxi companies that we solved with Uber
- The whole term “a living wage” is a load of horseshit. It’s not specific. It’s not measurable.
Does it mean a wage that lets a worker live alone without roommates?
Does it mean a wage that allows a worker to raise a child? Two children? More?
Does it mean a wage where a worker can afford to live within 10 minutes of their place of work? 30 minutes? 1 hour? More?
Does it mean a wage to afford an SRO? A studio? A one bedroom?
- SAP ksYR03Ok. So fist thing- Amazon was not unprofitable. Pls learn to read a B/S. Amazon always have operating cash flow. No company of last 10 years which went IPO has that.
Second, I am with Uber in one point. The drivers use Uber because they want to be their own boss. They liked the flexibility it offered. The left taxi business because here they got be their own boss. You can’t be your own boss , decide to drive when u want and when u don’t and still demand full time benefits, healthcare etc. that’s not how life works. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I agree, Uber due to Lyft, cut the price, brought more drivers for better consumer convenience which lowered their pay. It’s a difficult problem to solve. Some where I get drivers are pissed. But trust me there are many who no doubt work long hours but in the end it is getting food on their plates. I talk to many such drivers when I take one. They all are able to survive. Not having a job and being able to have one which can feed your family is not something one can disagree upon.
- Username, that’s exactly what Oracle kept saying about the cloud: Cloud for enterprise is not a “thing”....and here we are. Everyone on enterprise moving to the cloud and our cloud is a baby.
The future is here. Self-driving cars will be on the roads soon. Get onboard or sink.
- The striking drivers are welcome to create another Uber-like company and hire themselves with better benefits. I am sure the remaining Uber drivers will migrate to them, bankrupting Uber.
Oh they can’t? Then they should shut up and drive.
- Nope. Unions today tend to promote tenure-based pay and block extra pay for hard workers. That results in worse working conditions for workers, lower revenue for their employers, less budget for labor, and fewer jobs. Some unions do help some members, but as a whole they make their members' lives worse.
* minimum wage (lowers wages, increases inflation)
* rent control (increases rent prices, causes homelessness)
* occupational licensing (kills jobs in that occupation)
* college tuition subsidies (make college more expensive)
* child tax credits (causes poor single family homes)May 132
- @sinkinship nope I didn’t qualify for income based assistance because all through high school I worked multiple part time jobs so my income + 4 parents income (combined household incomes after parents divorced/remarried) disqualified me for any income based financial assistance.
Government assistance should be reserved for those who legit can’t work due to serious injury, a real disability (not merely being a lazy fatass that pops out kids), etc. If you’re able bodied, there’s never a reason you should get handouts, you just need to work harder.
There was no social safety net for all the hard working immigrants that came over and helped make America great originally. They worked their a$$es off and achieved much.
- That’s rich 🤣 because we believed in hard work, we weren’t in poverty 🤣 By every economic standard we were but my family including myself believed in hard work that didn’t stop at 40 hrs/wk. We qualified for assistance numerous times in my life but didn’t take it because we believed as long as you were able bodied, it was shameful to do so.
You forget modern welfare didn’t exist until the late 1930s. Before that, there was no welfare system. Since introducing the govt teat, people have gotten lazy and forgot what hard work is and would rather just b*tch and moan while claiming they deserve more yet they don’t demonstrate value that justifies more. If you don’t make enough money you have two options, get an additional job or get one that pays better which might require bettering yourself first.
- Blind is a great reminder that most people in tech are pieces of shit with overinflated egos. This thread is a prime example.
- Apparently this person was triggered. There’s a safe room on the third floor of the LinkedIn building. There’s lots of teddy bears and animal crackers there for you. Wait I forgot we can’t have animal crackers anymore because it was deemed too insensitive and it promotes beheading and eating lions. So it’s just cheerios in little baggies. Ha
Flagged by the community.
- Uber is already subsidizing about 30-40% of the cost of rides, for one thing. Prices have to rise one way or the other; it’s inevitable since economies of scale don’t apply to either the user base or the fixed costs inherent in any car-based transit company.
For another thing, “drivers would then give fewer rides over the same period of time” assumes a completely symmetric level of growth in terms of both supply and demand across the board.
Investors who believe in the business model are the rubes here. What’s funny is *they* think the drivers are idiots.
- If someone is doing a service for you that is worth the price, you pay the fair price. Fair price means that a living wage for the folks serving your coffee and chauffeuring your entitled ass around, enough to cover fundamental health care and enough to live with a <3 hr 1 way commute. It’s basic human decency. Otherwise, give up these luxuries and conveniences of your life.May 89
- Equifax / EngdiDP08more^^This. People don't realize that a lot of people hailing this car service are low income people who can't afford cars. I drove for uber for a while, and I picked up a lot of customers who just had finished their last shift at a fast food restaurant, or single mothers going to work early in the mornings. Raising prices will affect their pockets much more then few rich millennials who are going for drinks (or don't know how to drive).
Bdw, I think dissatisfied drivers are a minority. Most of the drivers did not participate in the protests. I saw a news reporting that, that a reporter who was going to cove the uber driver protest in NYC was able to hail uber ride only in 3 minutes :DMay 86
- You know things are F-ed when an Amazon guy is talking about empathy towards workers
- No impact. ETAs and pricing are the same today as any other day. The supposed “strike” has had no effect as is the case with most strikes.
- Amazon zXno30They can get a higher cut. One condition. Ban the prius and make them drive real cars
- Let the company prove itself more and I will. That's also part of being actually conservative. I want to be sure my car lasts long enough to offset the carbon and monetary cost + can be properly maintained by the manufacturer. 10 years since their first vehicle is almost enough.
Honestly, though, I'm betting car ownership is going to start being less trendy in the next decade. "The American Dream" was a marketing scam to begin with, and the idea of being "sexy" with a car is just plain stupid if you stop for a moment to think about it. We even make fun of middle-aged men over it.
The irony that this weirdo is calling people pussies over a Prius when we say the metaphorical same over people with powerful cars. 🤣 it's all so primitive and literally small-minded. Grow the fuck up with that, kids.
- https://www2.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-cost-guide “replacements are rare. Most Prius will not need a new battery ever. Warranties are 100k miles”
- For all the idiots who are asking the drivers to go find a skilled occupation, please realize that if all drivers were to learn programming or medicine then those jobs would be minimum wage jobs as well. Capitalism is designed to have only few rich people at the top. 1% of the rich own more wealth than the bottom 92%. The reason we techies enjoy high paying jobs is because of the average joe who makes $30,000 and not because of the few snooty bayarea coders.
In the age of cloud, machine learning and AI, most Americans will eventually be replaced by machines. Now the question is what are those middle aged jobless people supposed to do?
- From Wiki-freaking-pedia: “False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two *completely opposing* arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not.” [emphasis mine]
Regardless - what’s the false equivalence? Care to share, or leave it as a bare assertion?
- Yes. Saying “the job market”, which involves the supply of and demand for labour across many industries, and “the housing market”, which is small segment of the economy and involves the sale of a limited type of high-priced commodity, are exactly the same would be dumb.
That’s why I didn’t say it - what I tried to point out is that claiming any and all technological changes will yield deterministic (and positive) outcomes is myopic. Just because economic trends led to certain outcomes in the past, even over long stretches of time, is no justification for claiming those trends will continue indefinitely. That’s a facile and potentially problematic viewpoint.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
- Hey Samurai wassup. You sound exactly like a child telling his parents that Newton laws might just stop working because why not?
Market works in the same way because people stay the same. As soon as you get more of something its price goes down, and as soon as price goes down people find other ways to use the thing.
Automation frees up people? Good. Labor becomes more available, and humans are seriously adaptable. More labor means more opportunities for new businesses to hire. As a result, economy grows. Those who had to adapt grumble a bit but people grumble all the time so nothing to see here.
There’s only one thing that will make things worse: government messing with market via regulations, UBI, welfare programs and rest of stuff that prevents labor from entering the market.
- Lol... economics is not science ... hypothetically let’s say it is, hasn’t always old science replaced by new science? Even Newton’s law of gravity found its limitations when scientists tried to use it on sub atomic particles.
As a person of science, always question the status quo and always question the data sample size and the quality of data when someone says - “my argument is backed by data.”
- Top of HN right now: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-08/the-mighty-u-s-consumer-is-struggling
Nope no problem here, the poors are just complaining. It’ll pass.
- Minimum wage is a politically convenient solution but it’s market distortive. I’m in favor of up-zoning most areas to reduce housing cost and yes also increasing capital gain and inheritance taxes. Ultimately the question is why do we have a large number of unskilled workforce in the first place who have to resort to working McJobs? The education system is broken and higher education costs way too much.
- A lot of Uber drivers are ex cab drivers. They used to have unions to protect them from competition ..... and unfair practices.... although this is what capitalism looks like. Cab companies refused to hold their drivers to a standard and became a crappy experience and they were forced out of the market. The Uber drivers (many ex cabs) now want to go back to the same system they had before. It’s not going to happen.
It will affect their IPO imo. Which will be good because they are probably valued too high anyway (look at lyft).
I will agree I think Lyft USED to treat their drivers better and gave them a higher rate but now they are tied together like all sorts of other industries because they’ve both come to understand what they need to make to make a profit to keep shareholders happy.
If Lyft came out right now with a price war strategy and offered a temporary rate hike for ex Uber drivers to switch over it could hurt Uber even more.
For the record I think 25% cut from every ride is a bit much by both companies to take. If they cut it to 18 or 20, I think that might satisfy them enough and force Lyft to do the same thing. But as for making them ft employees with benefits is a crock of sh*t.
- “Cab companies refused to hold their drivers to a standard...” Not quite. Cab companies are held to standards like labor laws and local regulations; those are the standards Uber and Lyft specifically want (and need, frankly, if they want to compete) to get around in order to success.
- Uber has labor laws it abides to for its employees. Drivers are not employees. Uber and a Lyft have lots of regulations they are held to.
I was talking about standards for the actual driver as an employee, like not being a freaking assh*le to their passengers, having a clean car, not reeking of BO, not excessively unsafe driving and most annoyingly being on the god damn phone while screaming and honking at everyone.
That’s the standard I was talking about. Uber and lyft changed that. And guess what, I’ve been taking a cab a lot more lately and I think it might have had a spill over effect on the cab companies.
- Lyft FwUh10The only impact is journalists scrambling to report on a story that isn't manifesting itself like they thought it would.
- Adobe xzez56It looks like the barrier of entry for drivers is getting lower and lower, which has a negative impact on the service I get: “no speak English” drivers, unpredictable ETA, missing appointments, waiting 4mins to be connected to a driver to then get a timeout of the request. If there’s something to be worried about the business model, in my opinion, the quality of the service, the experience customers get, is what I worry most... and drivers are key
- Uber lost a $BI love all the negative impact you listed. Before Uber, people pray for that level of services. 4 minutes to be connected to a driver is godspeed even in NYC back then. See how much our life has changed now that we are actually complaining about it. The drivers want to go back to the old days.
- Juniper / DatablueironIt is not about protesting low pay. It is about protesting unfair pay. Protesting low pay is what Uber wants you to believe. The major problem is with Uber Pool. Uber takes a 30% cut from regular rides. You can argue about it but that’s reasonable. The problem with Uber Pool is that it doesn’t work the same way. Uber has some skewed (in their favor of course) way to calculate how much drivers get and that is hurting them badly. I heard multiple complaints from multiple Uber drivers how Pool pays them very low. They want Uber to have a reasonable, fair, transparent and easy to understand fare sharing mechanism and I don’t think that’s a big ask. Yes, they expect to see an increase in their income too but it is because they believe Uber’s policies are flawed.
- When the f will people understand some jobs are not worth $25/hr. Its not the company or the govt jobs to ensure they get a certain amount of money. It's the individual's responsibility. I mean isn't that what everyone here does, if underpaid, git gud and get paid more. It's economics. If enough people leave, suddenly market factors force companies to pay more. Also, to be frank if everyone earns at least earns 25/hr, suddenly 25/hr is worthless. Just like 100k is shite in Bay area.
- Uber (currently) is a bad business model. They are losing billions, despite their scale. Their IPO filings does not indicate an easy or quick path to profitability. Drivers are commodities in the Uber or Lyft ecosystem, something to bear until automated cars can make their models viable. These protests are more likely symbolic, not likely to affect the IPO premium. Worst case it affects customers, who look at other options to commute during morning commute hours. This is a lose-lose business, and when Uber and Lyft raise prices, the customers will lose too.
- Facebook Omzh16Lol I almost forgot how shitty tech is about paying people a living wage and valuing workers.
Literally Uber/Lyft wouldn’t exist without having a huge workforce of people Uber/Lyft have conveniently decided aren’t actually employees. So not only do they get paid for shit, but then Lyft/Uber is such a shitty business that even with cutting their backbone’s pay they STILL have to subsidize every ride to a wild degree. And they’re trying to hard to ride the wave until driverless cars get here, which will likely not happen in any meaningful way for who knows how long. Uber/Lyft are gonna leave a bunch of workers in the dust because some Silicon Valley dorks were like “what if cabs but different and also we were the only game in town”
I hope this works out for the drivers. I don’t think it will, just like the walkouts didn’t do much at Google, and I doubt the walkouts at Riot did anything either, but I hope this comes to a tipping point soon.
- Don’t get their logic. Not happy with pay? Find another job? Why is it the responsibility of the marketplace to provide higher pay assuming the minimal wage have been satisfied?
- @readyTo that’s nonsense. There’s plenty of people who have achieved the American dream through blood, sweat, and tears. People willing to do whatever it takes will always have the opportunity to achieve. The problem is people have gotten lazy and dependent on the government, often repeatedly making bad choices.
- Google / EngMagagagamoreDrivers want Uber to pay like a full-time job when Uber and Lyft never advertised themselves as full time employers. The whole point of Uber and Lyft was that it would be a side hustle. Can't help it if idiots with no job skills and intelligence thought this was a alternative to buying a taxi medallion.
- New / Biz Devstarlord42Yawn. They strike, someone else boots up they app and drives in their place. The whole premise of Uber driving is that you're free to start/stop anytime. You don't owe the company anything and they don't owe you anything. Don't like that arrangement? Then don't drive for them...
- Emmm they should just get a job. If you have time to hold up picket signs, you will have time to find a job that pays.
- The type of person driving for Uber, you think they can code (currently)? I’m not saying they’re incapable. I’m saying they’d be working for a better wage if they could.
Most people driving Uber and Lyft are in financially a place you don’t want to be. It’s hardly profitable and more like borrowing from the value of your vehicle, due to the depreciation from the miles you put on while driving for ride share.
- Exactly my point readyToFire. Uber is like a cash loaning company, they should move on to something else instead of protesting to the devil. Uber will die naturally without drivers supporting them. Devil doesn’t have empathy and they are expecting the world to change for them? Go out and work multiple jobs or something, I’m not even saying they need to code, just don’t waste time picketing. Go be productive.
- New / EngSharmaGThis situation is so sad. Able bodied people who deliver value aren't able to make a living and a transformative company can't afford to pay them. Both parties have legit arguments -- the situation just blows.
- It turns out there’s an upper limit to the amount of wealth Silicon Valley can suck out of the middle class.
Well, they brought their vacuum and are going through your couch cushions. That’s basically what Uber is. A really opaque way to take money from financially fragile drivers.
- Uber 来啦老弟Took uber 4 times today, saw no differences in pickup ETA.
Where is the strike everyone keeps talking about?
- The number one thing I'm taking away from this thread is that Blind needs way more leftists
“Left, In politics, the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life. ... Socialism is the standard leftist ideology in most countries of the world; communism is a more radical leftist ideology.” - Brittanica
- @bkhfdg most leftist stances would probably say "both". But mainly I'm just reacting to all of the "so what, they should get another job. It's not meant to be a career" takes. Both of our companies would be treating us the same as their drivers of warehouse workers if the market supported it. I'm just surprised to see not that much solidarity among the people here for other workers.
- I tried Uber this morning and it kept telling me that it cannot match me to a driver even though I tried multiple times so I switched to Lyft. This shit seems real.
- New / Engna206I think depending on the area they make a killing. I drive a 16 Lexus es300h and my Uber driver picked me up in a 19 same model. Ask how much he was pulling In. Said about 70k a year. Some math from number of rides and median Uber price in Vegas checked out. Idk. It’s hard to really see if people aren’t making enough or not
- One of the big problems I see if that no journalist ever investigates the costs of the “struggling” drivers they talk to or talk about.
Are these single people with no costs other than their own? If so, their complaint might seem more valid.
Are they married with kids? Are they sending money abroad to support relatives in their home country? If either of these are true, then it means they are actually doing quite well as drivers, but complain just like every other worker including software engineers. Almost everyone wishes they were paid more.
Are they driving a fuel efficient car or a gas guzzler? If they aren’t driving a fuel efficient car and the can’t make ends meet, that’s their problem, not Uber’s. Not every vehicle should be profitable for ridesharing unless the rider is willing to pay more to get a driver with that vehicle with a higher cost of operation and ownership.
I want to see the actual finances of drivers. Until then this is all noise.
- New Gjoq36Not sure if the protests have any impact but ... Uber IPO is 3 times oversubscribed as of now, whereas Lyft IPO was 20 times oversubscribed. Investors are realizing that even with the driverless cars, they (or someone) has to spend a lot to maintain fleets of cars like the rental car companies. Let's see where this cheaper than cost price of rides business go in the long run. In the meantime make some money by shorting these stocks and/or save some money by using their services subsidized by VCs.