Why India has crazy GC wait time compared to China?

Facebook Imagine0
Dec 20, 2018 111 Comments

India and China have around the same population. Almost equal number of people from both countries come to the US for studying.

Then how come for Chinese people the employ based GC wait time is just 4 years, while for India it’s forever. 🤣

I have a feeling that the Indian body shop companies are the root cause. Body shop managers get EB1 visas for being international managers, even though they make peanuts.

Other body shop employees spam the system with EB2 and EB3 applications. Though they mostly file for EB3 they are able to convert that to EB2 after 5 years of wait time. They make peanuts as well and most of their visa/gc application might be fraudulent.

I guess if those people are thrown out of the queue, wait time for India will drop to 4-5 years like China I believe. As the only difference between India and China seems to be that China has no body shop IT companies.

So my Indian people why don’t you push for sanitizing your green card queue instead of pushing hard for hr 392 which is unlikely to pass.

PS: I am Chinese

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TOP 111 Comments
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    techbeemore
    Having GC does not improve your TC by the way. Finding a job as GC holder is difficult as you get screened out in first round. Most of the FAANG PREFER H1-b only .
    Dec 20, 2018 11
    • New / Eng JohnMcPop
      If that is true, it is modern slavery. Ok ok, high TC I get it, but exploiting people to work 60+ based on fear is immoral.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Microsoft yuiopu
      If this is true then I think this is the reason why all work visas including h1b need job mobility added to them without having to do loads of paperwork and reseting of GC.

      Currently these visa are tied to employers. The law causes some class of work visa holders to be indentured forever.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Intel / Eng plebHW->SW
      ?? What’s this nonsense lol. GC opens so many doors. Having a GC won’t get you screened out; sucking during the first round will do that.
      The only (top) companies that ask about GC early on in the process ask because GC is required, not the other way around.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • New Egypt80
      Then the backlog is your friend, no? Keeping you employed..
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      @JohnMcPop I like your logical and compassionate thinking.

      Please teach some of that to @NewEgypt80 who is posting sarcastic comments and telling immigrants to stop complaining. Perhaps he is done with his GC which makes him think that he has the authority to look down on other immigrants for whom the current system isn’t so fair.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Google tick tock
    The posters here seem to suggest that all Indians have a central authority and are asking Indians to self-govern themselves. This is as crazy idea as it can get.

    No we don't coordinate among ourselves and yes, there are smart and not so smart folks among Indians just like others.
    Dec 20, 2018 18
    • Microsoft ramare
      Then why is every EU country citizen allowed to work in other EU countries with nearly no barriers? Just by being part of that group, they receive the benefits without being evaluated individually. People outside EU countries don't receive this benefit.

      Same thing happens with negative consequences too eg H1b abuse. Because members of our group committed fraud, so we share the associated negative perception and increased scrutiny.

      Individual evaluation is ideal, however it won't happen anytime soon due to lot of practical reasons.
      Dec 23, 2018
    • Google tick tock
      How would you compare EU countries with India? This is bizarre at best. EU has same currency. Their leaders spent years trying to come up with common trade policies among them. If India and US were part of ttp, some version of this could have happened.

      Again these are country's actions. Why US doesnt have a pact with India is a foreign policy discussion. Nothing to do with all the stuff that you said above. Only when free labor movement comes into picture you could have even made you argument (which again I disagree with). You know foreigner policies and even in trade deal, labor movement is just one part of the discussion.

      You are basically telling me:
      It's okay to do group evaluations with individual petitions, since you have seen issues with abuse. If this was true, most h1 petitions (75%) should be revoked, no one should be granted asylum requests and no marriages to non citizen would ensue the spouse getting a green card.

      I am glad this country has bunch of laws that ensures such biases don't exist and that people can't be targeted for their race or color or gender.

      Btw, that black person example I gave you above, do you know that not only is it racism, it's pure illegal? Equal employment laws simply make it illegal.

      Again, if the government applies bias based on country on h1 petitions, it is an easy lawsuit. Fortunately for US, what you said as ideal is the law 🙂

      Tell me your team and company - Next time when you conduct interview, I want to be your interviewee - I can use your arguments here to sue you and make lots of money 😁

      You are lucky blind is anonymous, otherwise you would have put yourself in legal trouble.

      (I am not a lawyer - nothing here constitutes any relationship based on my opinions above 🤪)

      Btw - before you say someone that they don't understand what PR is, or aren't PR material, consider reading laws of the land where you live. 🙂
      Dec 23, 2018
    • Microsoft ramare
      I'm not sure why you're not getting it.

      I never said this group bias is the right thing, I'm just saying that's how the world works currently and will continue to for a long time. Yes there are laws against it in certain situations eg employment but even there for all practical purposes, there is bias eg much easier to get referred at Google if you know someone inside, or if you currently work with a top competitor.
      After getting an offer, your H1b application will be less scrutinized if you're not from middle East, but probably denied if you're from Iran.
      After you join, your network (group) matter a lot in getting good career advise eg for picking projects, promotions etc.
      Dec 23, 2018
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      I'm not sure why he's not getting it either. How hard is it to understand that owning responsibility is basic humanity and not something written in the law. All we want is for everyone to do good and help shape a better society and this guy is going off about how that's not his job and we're racially stereotyping him.
      Dec 27, 2018
    • Microsoft ramare
      Right, once you're part of an group it's your responsibility to shape it for the better.

      In some places, people are aware of this and take steps to continuously improve the group as it happens in many Western countries. Over time, word and actions by such groups get high credibility and members enjoy the benefits. Eg imagine how a Western citizen is treated vs Indian citizen is treated wrt visas.

      In other places and cases, they are forced by the govt eg social score by China and various bans by Indian govt. This happens when people don't want to take responsibility, but some folks in govt are either forced to or have a vision to improve the group.

      In rest of the cases where members don't care and there's no one to force, the group spirals down and gets all sorts of negative stereotypes and external bans associated with it and all group members have to suffer. Many politically incorrect to mention examples exist here.

      Now it's upto us which category we want to land in.
      Dec 27, 2018
  • Bose JustMeHa
    You are right , i am Indian and I think we should fix the system so body shops aren’t able to abuse it . It gives us all a bad name
    Dec 20, 2018 0
  • Netflix / Eng
    model

    Netflix Eng

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    modelmore
    Why do good tech companies hire these body shop employees?? All the companies I have worked at, I have seen these folks who came onsite from TCS, Infosys, Accenture and then simply moved to good tech companies- yeah lots of these folks at Netflix too. It sucks to see these incompetent idiots climbing leadership ranks because they came few years earlier.

    Microsoft and Amazon is full these people
    Dec 20, 2018 4
    • BlackBerry
      GrumpYVet

      BlackBerry

      BIO
      Putin is my bitch
      GrumpYVetmore
      The body shop employees are treated like slaves by the body shop and the US government doesn’t address their servitude.
      Have compassion for the body shop employees and keep your daggers out for the owners/execs of the body shop
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Netflix / Eng
      model

      Netflix Eng

      PRE
      Google, Amazon
      modelmore
      Have compassion but watch out for these people who are trying to game the system. They come in the US through shitty companies and then find friends/relatives in top tech companies- who then play favorites to get these folks in. Heard to Telugu (natives of a province) managers hiring Telugu people?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Microsoft trthhhheee
      Totally agreed to Netflix guy. They are mastermind at politics and gaming the system. Of course not all of them are like that particularly when they are at low level. The issue starts when they get promoted to managerial position and somehow gets it at big tech companies. I had to deal with many such folks and so did my colleagues. We all complain about their incompetency and bringing toxic culture but we can’t really say that in public. So they keep going up the ladder based on what ICs have done and those ICs eventually leave bacause of this. Those managers move the team or hire from other outsourcing companies as FTE and the bad cycle starts which excludes Americans and other nationalities. I am pretty sure the projects they owned tend to collapse and ultimately hurt business than helps. Outsourcing should be kept at their home country which is beneficial for both countries..
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Somebody explain that to our wipro guy please. Cc: @techbee
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    Devops and big data. 15+ yrs exp
    techbeemore
    It’s pathetic that FAANG managers are begging us for 100s of consultants every year. Face the Reality
    Dec 20, 2018 5
    • Microsoft ScubyDuBDu
      Every menial tech job doesn't deserve a regular 200k TC. So consultants and contractors are always gonna be in demand but not at the expense of genuine Full time employees. Come, work, leave. That's how it was intended. Don't abuse it by coming through a third tier company and sneaking in by hook or crook.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Wipro / Eng
      techbee

      Wipro Eng

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      techbeemore
      No offense. Any job in FAANG could be off- shores or contracted out in few years unless employees are doing innovative work. Look at past 10 years..
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Microsoft ScubyDuBDu
      I don't really think so. There are services that need constant maintenance and new development. You can't contract or outsource it. Outsourced/Contracted work is defined with a timeline and usually when it's over, the contract is terminated. This is the basic difference between work that is outsourced and work that full time devs do. Or at least that's the correct usage of the two resources and how it was meant to be used.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Oracle Leadpaint
      @techbee if that is the case why are FAANG so selective? I'm not sure what the hiring bar is for consultants but it's pretty high for full timers
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Wipro / Eng
      techbee

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      techbeemore
      Not getting my point. Usually once the product is developed by ‘innovative ‘ employees, Knowledge will be transferred for maintenance and enhancements which can be done less expensive way. The time lag is about 2 years for offshore folks to pickup.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Apple not wasis
    Or they can always go back to India
    Dec 20, 2018 6
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      I heard living condition in India is really bad.

      Lot of people, corruption, traffic, pollution, etc. that’s why people don’t wanna leave
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Apple not wasis
      Ok how do you see them throwing body shop people out of queue?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      I am curious, they can push for a rule to have their queue vetted.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Apple not wasis
      It requires government oversight and it doesn’t look like government wants to do that.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • New / Mgmt Fv¢|<
      Which breed spoken?
      Dec 20, 2018
  • New Egypt80
    Because apparently only high skilled, high salaried workers come from India. Haven't you heard or seen the Blind posts citing tc and such? Lol!
    Dec 20, 2018 14
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Yes, are you aware of any better way?

      At least in software industry TC ~= skill level
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Haven’t you heard the infamous blind phrase “TC or GTFO “

      If so, why are you acting naive?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • New Egypt80
      Who invented the phrase?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Blind full of TC posts, just do a search of that phrase and you will get a ton of hits. So it’s not only Indians who are posting their TCS ?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • New Egypt80
      Ok. I assumed it was a high skilled Indian thing here in the US... I stand corrected.
      Anyways I was only trying to make a joke.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Microsoft UMbR31
    I can't believe getting Indians to hate other Indians still works in 2018. We learnt nothing from the history books, did we?

    Can you all take a minute and understand how stupid this sounds: "My own brethren are preventing me from getting a green card." No wonder so many of us are stuck in such junior positions despite being some of the most qualified and hard working in the tech business.
    Dec 20, 2018 1
    • Microsoft trthhhheee
      I disagree. Indians are promoted faster than Americans at Microsoft. There are so many bad ones at Principal level that were promoted by other Indians. Some are good but average is the worst amongst all. Partially because many came in when getting a job was easy during dotcom boom. Indians come to US easily because of information and network effect plus many opportunities for transfer and via outsourcing companies. Others usually come via schools and have to go though much more filter. Younger Indians seem educated better though.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Apple rndEuler
    Because Indians use 80% quotas of H1b by abusing the system. They have much more people in the queue so the waiting time is much longer.
    Dec 20, 2018 0
  • Uber tomkha
    Bad for India. We have people who are happy to contribute to Chinese economy and not crazy for living in the US. - fellow Chinese brother
    Dec 20, 2018 0
  • LinkedIn Bike
    Dude, any form of immigration reform helps all educated/legal immigrants.

    And the burden of sanitizing the queue or the immigration reform lies on the US citizens, not on ppl waiting in that line. Ppl waiting in line can’t vote!

    Any US immigration system is broken and is accepted by politicians as broken for about 2 decades now and yet they cannot agree on a fix.

    Stop blaming the victims. Indians or other immigrants are not responsible for what other ppl from their country do in US. US needs to fix its laws
    Dec 20, 2018 0
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      But that has nothing to do with the question in this post
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Airbnb
      jim.hodlen

      Airbnb

      BIO
      kindly doing the needful
      jim.hodlenmore
      vir das said in his show, the 80% of Indians who aren’t smart, they don’t even get a passport
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Intel gmoore
      Umm you watching vir das shows how smart you are 😝
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Airbnb
      jim.hodlen

      Airbnb

      BIO
      kindly doing the needful
      jim.hodlenmore
      I’m definitely the 80%😂
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Microsoft ramare
    I think Chinese people actually like their country and think they can make it equal to US over time. So they go back, work in Chinese companies and create startups.

    Indians (other than few) on the other hand have no such feelings.
    Dec 20, 2018 2
    • Microsoft yuiopu
      Is it? Why are Chinese buying properties in all cash and applying EB5 s in huge numbers then?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Microsoft ramare
      China Eb5 is still no where close to 150k applications from India every year.

      Property is wealth transfer that they do for their kids. Land holds a special place in Chinese culture too and they can't get permanent ownership in China.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

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    techbeemore
    @Leadpaint, how come you are concluding that I am ‘half’ qualified. Actually I came to US in 1990s did my MS in US and worked for top companies over last 20 years. Got my GC after after working on H1b for 10 years. Now fresh H1bs are not having patience and being arrogant just because there are making high TC and looking down fellow Indians working as contractors. This learned Snobbishness which is bad for Indian community as whole. That’s why immigrants abuse other less fortunate immigrants.
    Now I work with both fresh H1bs and FAANG employees, the snobbery getting unpleasant.
    Dec 20, 2018 2
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Why are you still at Wipro though?
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Oracle Leadpaint
      I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about people I actually know who came as body shop consultants and were able to game the system and get into the EB1 queue while people like me are left pounding sand. As far as "fresh H1s not having patience" goes, would you have patience if you were asked to wait 30 years for a greencard?
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Microsoft yuiopu
    OP your assumption that only those who come to US for higher education should get in GC queue is wrong.

    India has way more software and services companies compared to China. The reason is demographics and command is English language compared to China.

    Just like China is way ahead of India and any other country in manufacturing.
    Dec 20, 2018 0
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    techbeemore
    Very true. I am shocked at how newer H1bs are hating each other now. I have not noticed during my GC process back in early 2000. Well, at that time there is not much queue for GC. Every immigrant deserves better life in US irrelevant of TC.
    Dec 20, 2018 4
    • Oracle Leadpaint
      "Every immigrant deserves a better life in US irrelevant of TC".
      This statement reeks of entitlement and I can't agree with it. You need to earn the better life through merit. If less meritorious people are undercutting the more meritorious ones then there is a serious flaw in the immigration system.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      Exactly. Can’t agree more.
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Wipro / Eng
      techbee

      Wipro Eng

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      techbeemore
      "Every immigrant deserves a better life in US irrelevant of TC".
      That’s my slogan that I believe living in US for so long.

      P.s. US citizen and registered Democrat
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Oracle Leadpaint
      I'm not against immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself. Please don't straw man me. All I'm saying is its not fair when you spend thousands on a masters degree, work hard to get a full time position at a top tech company (I'm moving to FANG next month. Have multiple offers) and then still get cut off by people from body shop consultancies with mediocre skills for a green card. Again I'm not targeting you because I know nothing about your skills and experience but I know other such people.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • New / Eng NPcomplete
    What is body shop?
    Dec 20, 2018 3
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    techbeemore
    Seems that my efforts of making you feel less frustrated about GC process not helping. GC does not get you everything and world remains same after you got GC as well. Right now I am US citizen after going thru all the phases. Still life goes on more or less similar.. it’s just mindset
    Dec 20, 2018 2
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      But with GC you get rid of the stress of worrying about losing your status and getting deported overnight? Isn’t it?

      That’s the only real benefit I can think of
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Netflix / Eng
      model

      Netflix Eng

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      @Wipro
      There are many in my friend circle who are not starting tech companies because of this GC issue. Super smart and hard working people, who can contribute a lot more to economy, create job and improve society. Not everyone likes to rest and vest after getting GC
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    techbeemore
    Well I am GC holder.. work at FAANG
    Dec 20, 2018 1
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      BS. I am sure you don’t work at FANG. You work at wipro or some other body shop companies and steal green cards away from fellow Indians.
      Dec 20, 2018
  • Wipro / Eng
    techbee

    Wipro Eng

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    Devops and big data. 15+ yrs exp
    techbeemore
    Learning the business of offshore and onsite model
    Dec 20, 2018 3
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      So you confess that you lied about being at FANG 🤣
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Wipro / Eng
      techbee

      Wipro Eng

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      Devops and big data. 15+ yrs exp
      techbeemore
      I works as consultant / delivery manager for FAANG customers
      Dec 20, 2018
    • Facebook Imagine0
      OP
      I see so you’re still a contractor at FANG
      Dec 20, 2018