Why are places like Microsoft and Oracle considered bad places to work?

Chase / Eng
Pit18

Chase Eng

BIO
Developer
Pit18more
Feb 19, 2018 34 Comments

Microsoft has an entire OS and full fledged office suite, not to mention an entire development ecosystem in .net. Oracle, similarly, is the developer of an industrial scale rdms as well as the most popular modern programming language. Surely it takes higher calibre software engineers to create those systems than it does Snapchat and Airbnb? Someone enlighten me.

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TOP 34 Comments
  • Oracle WayneManor
    I haven't worked at Microsoft so I'll just talk about Oracle. You are absolutely right that it takes great ability to design and develop industrial strength enterprise databases. Oracle's database has a very rich code base filled with an amazing set of features. Working on augmenting that functionality with new features using state-of-the-art techniques is challenging and also very satisfying.

    Unfortunately, the CS world is trending away from such large scale enterprise systems. This means new grads are more skilled in website design, machine learning algorithms, etc. than in Operating System concepts like scalable synchronization, distributed systems principles like consensus algorithms, vector clocks, etc. Additionally, enterprise companies do not have 'successful' consumer-facing products - so it is harder for people to acknowledge the elegance of the work that goes into making those products. And in the modern world, 'coolness' is a huge factor in deciding where to work. You see Amazon Alexa in action, you take a Uber, you search on Google, you use Facebook everyday and hence, you consider them cool. Technically, Microsoft and Oracle are also present in all of your activities - but they are fairly hidden.

    Another aspect is the fact that the people who made the cool Oracle products have become older now. As a thumb rule, they like the old way of thinking and designing stuff. Young developers don't like that as they want an agile and vibrant work environment. For example, in my team, gathering interest for post-work fun activities is very hard. Most people have kids to take care of, and their work hours are very different that what I would want. Naturally, young people feel like they need a company which is young, and that plays a hand in the "The future is now, old man" style of thinking.

    The final reason is that the general practices of Oracle leave a lot to be desired. There are many people who are concerned about their own standing than working towards making a better product. This occasionally leads to a hugely selfish work environment which is not the most fun. The bureaucracy involved in getting promotions, taking vacations, picking up new projects is sometimes way too much. Having said that, if you get a good team, which has a meaningful agenda, you can do a lot of good work. Certainly, I have been okay here :)
    Feb 19, 2018 2
    • Airbnb microsvc
      to be fair, distributed systems knowledge is fairly relevant for backend web developers building cloud native apps
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Salesforce / Sales Anon guy
      Quality answer. Thanks for writing
      Feb 19, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Microsoft jdfw70
      If you want a easy in, join msit as the bar is really low. You can move around after that.
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Airbnb microsvc
      internal transfers require interviews and the bar doesn’t get lower for employees
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft jdfw70
      You get one chance to get into msft from outside, then you have to wait a year? Msit bar is so low your chances of getting in is high. Once in you can interview as many times as you want to do internal transfer, and depending on the group the process is more relaxed. So msit is the easy gateway into msft.
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Airbnb microsvc
      truedat, wouldn’t that piss off your manager though? unless they no longer get notified these days
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft msold
      Luckily this silly rule has been eliminated.
      Feb 19, 2018
  • Facebook / Eng
    dondasher

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    dondashermore
    They aren’t bad places to work but the total compensation seems to be lower in these companies than companies like amazon and Facebook. Also they are not pre-ipo. If by some reason, Microsoft shares start growing 30 % per year. People will flock to it.l regardless of politics or the notion that it does not innovates.
    Feb 19, 2018 2
    • PayPal wott
      Msft shares are up 45% in last 365 days (that's more than FB) and up by 275% in last 5 yrs. Although I get what you are trying to say
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng Harmar
      Yep, Microsoft stock is on a tear, lately. Stock grants are small enough that we don't really notice, though 😅
      Feb 19, 2018
  • F5 Networks dorian
    Haters gon' hate?
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Oracle / Eng poroi
    Toxic culture, politics..,..
    Feb 19, 2018 3
    • Chase / Eng
      Pit18

      Chase Eng

      BIO
      Developer
      Pit18more
      OP
      How is it worse than amazon
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Amazon dalejrjr
      How is OCI?
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng poroi
      Same
      Feb 19, 2018
  • Microsoft msold
    I am a Microsoft lifer and the company has done wonders for me financially. (Ignoring other aspects)

    I just don't see that happening for newer folks.

    Many interns over the years have loved the work/culture (I am in Azure and people here work crazy hours) but money always becomes an issue. If we could fix the money angle I'd say Microsoft would be a pretty hot company.
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Microsoft talespin
    I have worked in both places. Don't even compare Oracle with Microsoft! Oracle is the worstttt shit
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Accenture / Eng RimRax
    I think it’s because they’re both seen as bloated, old (both started in the 70s), slow growth rates, and don’t innovate anymore.
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Eng Patton
    MS has good and bad teams/products. Given the size of the company, that should be expected.
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Oracle wtflife
    Toxic work culture. Politics. If you want to learn and grow without dealing with politics and bureaucracy, this is not the place!
    Feb 23, 2018 0
  • Salesforce trroll
    Microsoft is ok, oracle is a horrible company with shitty salaries, culture and technologies
    Feb 19, 2018 1
    • SAP / Eng LeetGod
      Does that include BMC?
      Feb 19, 2018
  • Cisco / Eng michalscot
    Is OCI that bad?
    I have been seeing some “cool” posts by OCI employees about their teams and i also see a pattern in which they are trying to hire by making the company look cool just like Amazon recruiters do.
    Feb 19, 2018 0
  • Tinder / Eng
    hfyehb

    Tinder Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    hfyehbmore
    All about free food man
    Feb 19, 2018 7
    • Microsoft sny9
      Yup
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Yep, to normalize LinkedIn perks
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft sny9
      Yeah, thanks LinkedIn 😂
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng Harmar
      They had free food pre-LinkedIn.
      Feb 19, 2018
    • Microsoft sny9
      Nope not Sunnyvale and Mountain View, only the acquisition locations (Skype, Yammer) did
      Feb 19, 2018
  • Microsoft MS Bane
    Shit vs. MS, I choose shit!! That’s the simple answer !
    Mar 3, 2018 0
  • Microsoft seemsfastr
    I'd say cause of the politics and the sense they are too "old". There are plenty of stellar engineers but the politics and senior leadership seem to ruin everything. MS in particular just chases the latest craze and drops the ball even when they are the first in a new space (Cortana, windows mobile, etc)
    Feb 19, 2018 0

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