Why are there so many bad PMs? 🤦‍♂️

Esri / Eng dorp
Apr 12 29 Comments

I've been supporting different teams for the past few months, and the leadership and management styles vary widely.

There are a lot of PMs that vary from being a a glorified assistant or just kind of existing. On these projects, usually the tech lead is directing both technically and logistically.

To be fair, I've worked with PMs who seem to be very on top of leading a project and coordinating the technical teams with the client, but that seems to be the minority.

What are the standards for a PM and why does it seem to be so low?

#ProjectManagement

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TOP 29 Comments
  • Because PM is mainly a very simple job that is all soft skilled based. It is stressful because the PM is the face of the feature, but the complexity of the job is very low.
    Also remember that most PM were bad engineers that couldn't keep up with the game and decided to exit early and switch to PM in order to keep up.

    PM jobs also seen to attract ego centric personalities that want to be managers.

    Then Iet some amazing PMs but it's rather an exception
    Apr 12 1
    • Microsoft /More/$$$$
      ^ this. lmaooo. “Most” is too strong. Not everyone really likes writing code and solving leetcode after work lol
      Apr 12
  • Microsoft lMQO62
    All PMs that do not know any engineering have been absolutely incompetent. This is my experience, and I doubt it will ever change.

    CS degree, engineering hobby, even things like these makes a world of a difference. PMs without any engineering experience have trouble prioritizing... Which is basic task for a PM. How these people manage to be bad at their core responsibility boggles my mind. Why do people put up with incompetence like this?
    Apr 12 0
  • > On these projects, usually the tech lead is directing both technically and logistically.

    Perhaps it is about expectations ?

    Assuming Agile Development, Product Mgmt are about the "What" and the Dev team is about the "How".

    So when it comes to execution, the Dev Lead (and/or Scrum Master) have most of the heavy lifting at that point. The PM is just there for priority management. The majority of the PM work should have been done before the release, defining the "What" .

    Now, if it's not clear what the team is supposed to be doing. Aka the "What" is not clear. Then you have a problem with the PM. If the "How" is not clear, then it's on the Dev Lead. If the team is blocked, unorganized or not adhering to the team processes, this is where the Scrum Master/Dev Manager comes in.
    Apr 12 2
  • Uber Stampy
    Australia's has way more terrible PMs.
    Apr 12 0
  • Nutanix Kasparov39
    Same way there are many bad engineers there are many bad pms. What’s really the question?
    Apr 12 0
  • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
    They’re all on Blind, asking what to expect in an interview.
    Apr 12 0
  • Facebook gEKd54
    False generalization...
    PMs are just more visible which makes bad PMs noticed.
    Similar to the "terrible managers" fallacy - more people are negatively influenced by their bad quality work...
    Apr 13 6
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      Not a false generalization. You could make the same conclusion about PM’s just by reading Blind
      Apr 13
    • Facebook gEKd54
      Not sure I understand your counter argument?

      Did you just refer to blind as a reliable source of information about things 😅
      Apr 13
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      Only reliable in that everyone wants to be a PM now. Those who can’t do, PM.
      Apr 13
    • Facebook gEKd54
      People wanting to be PMs does not make them PMs. Just looking for a way to avoid losing the tech salary - people of that kind dont make much progress in any track - eng, pm, etc
      Apr 13
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      No, but unfortunately many of them get hired because they share interview questions and know what to say. Have you seen the posts asking for the questions? We need to stop enabling them.
      Apr 13
    • Facebook gEKd54
      With that I can agree.
      We have no argument that bad PMs are terrible for the people that interact with.
      Apr 13
  • New / IT
    strcoder

    New IT

    PRE
    500 Startups
    strcodermore
    Yesterday's bad programmers are today's project managers.
    Apr 13 1
  • I have a really good PM, he was a lead swe, cs background, and army officer before. I think there’s been a influx of b-school grads flooding into these new roles which is why.
    Apr 12 0
  • Salesforce ABCez123
    Seriously people...read. This is about PROJECT MANAGERS. It says so right in the OP.

    Why are you talking about Product Managers?
    Apr 12 4
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      PM’s don’t read
      Apr 12
    • Salesforce ABCez123
      Neither do engineers apparently.
      Apr 12
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      Found the PM.....
      Apr 13
    • Salesforce ABCez123
      Not even close...
      Apr 13
  • Uber Stampy
    But seriously, are you all even talking about the same PMs? Project Management is mentioned in the question, and I already see things that imply it's been interpreted at Product Management.
    Apr 12 3
    • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay2
      Both are horrible and unneeded
      Apr 12
    • Uber Stampy
      My team has a program manager doing lots of the project management work.
      I'm grateful for it, because I'm the EM, and I'm weak at that stuff.
      Apr 12
    • Esri / Eng HR Karen
      Ah, sorry for the confusion - I was referring to project managers
      Apr 12
  • Amazon mUwn3e
    The bros of business school.

    If you've ever been on a forum full of these types (wallstreetbets, TotalFratMove, Futurology, Dropshipping related motivational "tutorials" etc) you'll see how utterly vapid and useless they are. It's pretty well connected to a lot of white Americans who think they are entitled to these high paying tech jobs because "I grew up here, I'm an American and this American company should hire me and give me a high paying salary"
    Apr 12 0

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