Misc.

Why folks at Facebook defend their company too much?

Amazon alcoholic
Jan 31

We all know Facebook is a cancer to society. They are just evil scumbag. They don't have any moral or ethical values. They just treat their customers are mere products. They don't see them as humans. For them we are just a piece of data.

Recently Apple revoked their enterprise certificate. If I comment anything in support of Apple bunch of FB employees come and bash me. I can't understand this. Just because you work for a company you don't need to support their evil things. Does Zuck give them any kind of additional bonus for defending the company ?

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  • Uber yTzY24
    Facebook is pretty innocuous compared to e.g. tobacco companies whose products literally do cause cancer, or PG&E who periodically incinerate folks’ houses.

    The defensiveness of FB employees seems proportional to the level of ludicrous hyperbole in posts such as yours.
    Jan 316
    • Amazon ya!
      The Rohinga people might not agree
      Jan 31
    • Microsoft CykaBlyat
      Oh look, Uber, the company that spies on its customers almost as much as FB
      Jan 31
    • Tobacco companies are pretty innocuous compared to BP and friends which are literally destroying the habitability of the planets for the next tens of thousands of years via the production of fossil fuels
      Jan 31
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      Just because someone else is worse doesn’t mean you are good. Stop the whatablutism and aim to fix these problems.
      Jan 31
    • New truther
      pretty innocuous?! so affecting the lives of millions through data manipulation is no big deal? sure, its not as shocking and blunt as cancer but please do not downplay facebooks actions that affect us all in some form. We are talking about a company that has billions of users that can be mind controlled through a simple algorithm change.
      Jan 31
    • Oracle Kirby123
      Suicide rates for teen girls tripled as social media usage soared. Thanks, Cuckerberg!

      http://www.businessinsider.com/us-suicide-rate-increased-since-2000-2018-6
      Jan 31
  • Apple
    niXC18

    Apple

    BIO
    Hello, my name is
    niXC18more
    Nobody seems to see the value FB brings to the world. For starters, Facebook is enabling 80M small businesses feed themselves and hire more jobs due to more business that’s being driven through ads. WhatsApp is the only end-to-end encrypted messaging app that’s available on all platforms that developing countries are living on. Facebook is the only company that helps you stay in touch with and get updates on friends that you don’t see everyday but care about. I agree Facebook is not perfect and it makes mistakes but a privacy leak that exposes your cat photos is nowhere as serious as Equifax or Cathay Pacific leaking your SSN, credit history or passport info. No one seems to care about that!
    Jan 3111
    • Facebook / Eng
      Ô ptimist

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Facebook
      Ô ptimistmore
      Yeah right... because all these atrocities never happened before the internet? Sure fb is a tool and maybe it didn't do its best to ensure everyone's safety but child porn, human trafficking, global extremism, seriously... Like do you blame Google for each offending webpage on the web?
      Jan 31
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      They existed before but Facebook made it substantially easier. As for rohinga genocide that’s certainly a Facebook specific problem
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      But the obvious violation of Facebook’s agreement with Apple’s grant of an enterprise developer certificate says something. It was an evil move. If it wasn’t evil, then it was incompetent, but my money is on evil. Much like similarly evil moves that got Uber in trouble with Apple a few years back when they were geo-fencing the campus to disable location tracking features for the app review process.

      Stop being evil like this, and people’s opinion might swing in a favorable direction.
      Jan 31
    • Facebook / Eng
      Ô ptimist

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Facebook
      Ô ptimistmore
      Ask anyone around what they think of apple's dick move. 🤔
      Apple limits what can be done on their phones for the 'safety' of their users? Yeah you believe that? Then why is it not the same on laptops or imacs? Apple knew all too well wHat was happening in these apps, and picked that opportunity to deflect all the bad press about the facetime bug. Don't believe everything you see in the press.
      I wouldn't be surprised if they outted Facebook themselves!
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      Dick move? Why didn’t you send that app to the App Store? Oh, that’s right, because you wanted to circumvent the process and use your enterprise certificate because you knew they’d never let it on in a million years.

      It sounds like FB made the dick move and you’re just pissed that Apple enforced the rules that FB agreed to abide by.

      Cry me a river 🎻
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      @Apple Park: I agree with FB that this is clearly a dick move by Apple. They could’ve just blocked that research app or given a notice period for FB to fix their shit, but no, Apple had to waste half of FB’s and Google’s productivity.

      I agree that it was incompetency on FB’s for using the enterprise certificate for a fully legit and consented activity, but do you realize the gravity of Apple’s security blunders with the FaceTime and admin login bugs? The FaceTime bug gives complete remote access to somebody’s video chat and the other gives full root privileges to macs (which can contain billions worth of confidential data)
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      @FUPayMe: these things existed long before Facebook and exist on many other platforms. Craigslist has sex trafficking problems, Google search makes it insanely easy to find bad content.

      Problem is bad people find a way to use every tool maliciously. That does not mean Facebook is super evil and must die. In fact, Facebook has literally spent the last year doubling in size to build counter-systems most companies can’t even dream of. If this continues to happen at an uncontrolled rate even after a few years, users will automatically leave and Facebook will fizzle out.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      @niXC18 - This app wasn’t distributed through the App Store. How was Apple supposed to block a single enterprise app that never hits their platform without revoking the certificate?

      I’m just not sure how this is the same as a security bug or two. The problem was the public distribution of enterprise-signed “in-house” apps, which is a circumvention of the App Store process and a violation of the license they agreed to when the certificate is issued. That certificate is a signal of trust, which FB blatantly violated.

      But it certainly doesn’t help when they violated that trust with a shitty data mining app. 🙄
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      @niXC18. You can't keep bug and international mining of kids data in same sentence. The two Apple bugs you mentioned, Apple did their best and handled the situations brilliantly. Bugs are a part of software life cycle.
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      @alcoholic: if you have to build apps for the next generation of people, you have to learn about them and you do that by conducting user-studies. Using a certificate outside of policy without checking with legal or reading the fine print due to ignorance is a bug/complacency, even if not a software bug. This is where FB made a mistake.
      Jan 31
  • Compass / Eng
    FUPayMe

    CompassEng

    PRE
    Google
    FUPayMemore
    Stockholm syndrome
    Jan 310
  • Facebook XDPH45123
    We defend the company because employees are treated like human beings and because the platform has done a lot of good. See giving tuesday as one small example. The better question is why aren’t more amazon, Microsoft, intuit, compass company employees proud of where they work and why do so many of them attack other companies out of insecurity? And why do they apply in mass to Facebook?
    Jan 315
    • Facebook ecWQ72
      Exactly. If the company treats you well, you will be much more likely to defend them.

      If your company overworks you and only gives you bananas or asks you to vote with your feet, of course you are not only not going to defend it but join in the bashing.
      Jan 31
    • New @(^_^)@
      Ok, giving Tuesday is fantastic. Do you just bury your head in the sand with respect to pretty much everything else your company does?

      See, from an outsiders perspective Facebook does a lot of horrible shit. Not trying to troll, just being honest.
      Jan 31
    • Amazon spdnv
      I don’t like Amazon’s lack of values, arrogant CEO or lack of true philanthropy and don’t defend them. That said, I’d love to work at FB and yet, I know they do not care about privacy and Sandberg/Zuck are not nearly as awesome as people think. Does that make FB employees feel better that I not only am not defending my company and I want to work at yours but also know it’s shady?

      I’d check my soul at the door 5 days a week to make mine and get out of the game. Is what it is.
      Jan 31
    • Microsoft / EngMissingNo.
      Who needs values or ethics when you have free food
      Feb 1
  • Facebook XDPH45123
    OP’s name checks out
    Jan 318
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      Okay. How can you defend Facebook for releasing an app that mines the data of kids?
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      And Facebook doesn't even remove the app from Play Store yet. This shows how much Facebook values privacy.
      Jan 31
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      Facebook is a serious problem and anyone working there is working in support of this problem.
      Jan 31
    • Facebook public2
      Research is not something you generally need to defend, especially with clear (and where needed parental consent).How do you defend any company who doesn't work to understand and better serve their constituents? Do you want google or msft or amazon to defend themselves for doing the exact same thing? How about the publicly traded companies who do nothing but panel research? Googles research app was also banned by apple the same day, for the same thing, but the press put their focus on fb obviously. I'm sorry you think fb is a problem and doesn't care about privacy. Companies like fb and google wouldn't make any money if they didn't care about privacy so even if you think tech lacks any morality at all at least know that the business would fail if either company actually sold data. You may not trust tech but most people can at least trust that a business wants to stay in business.
      Jan 31
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      Compass, all the FAANG companies are problematic in some way or another. I'm here to do interesting work and provide for my family - I prioritize this over posturing since I am not a white liberal. Also, as long as I have this job, the right thing to do is to give it 100%, which I do.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook / Other
      XKLa50

      FacebookOther

      BIO
      Data scientist
      XKLa50more
      Public2, I understand the impulse to defend the company, but our sense of right and wrong shouldn't be colored by what pays our paycheck. The Onavo business, for example, didn't sit well with me.
      Feb 1
    • Compass / Eng
      FUPayMe

      CompassEng

      PRE
      Google
      FUPayMemore
      Please explain how compass is problematic.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook public2
      Not sure I was defensive? I was pointing out there is no need to be defensive.
      Feb 1
  • Apple HumanDoing
    It’s not about the money/stock price. It’s about the blatant invasion of privacy and psychological damage (both mostly unbeknownst to its users) which is what makes it so deplorable.
    Feb 151
    • Apple HumanDoing
      Please speak coherently, you’re barely making any sense.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook hUoT40
      You sound like the OP, delusions of grandeur that you’re winning any sort of an argument
      Feb 1
    • Apple HumanDoing
      The “argument” was won when Facebook decided that “moving fast and breaking things” was more of a priority then their users.
      Feb 1
    • Apple HumanDoing
      Why is almost every successful feature or product Facebook has had since inception either blatantly stolen (stories, lenses) or M&A (Instagram, WhatsApp)?
      Feb 1
    • Facebook dollahbill
      Targeting ads on behalf of an ad buyer without exposing the targeting data to the buyer is not the same thing as selling the targeting data. If you can’t see the difference, I guess I’m not sure what to say.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook hUoT40
      Humandoin, I’m genuinely concerned about you. You’re all over the place buddy
      Feb 1
    • Apple HumanDoing
      It’s *indirectly* selling data. Quit dodging the principle. That’s all you’ve done here today. You bob and weave often.
      Feb 1
    • Apple HumanDoing
      hUoT40 get back in your playpen the adults are talking
      Feb 1
    • Facebook dollahbill
      I fundamentally disagree with you that it’s the same principle and so do hundreds of millions of Facebook users who would quit the site if we actually sold information instead of ad targeting.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook dollahbill
      And it’s worth noting Apple did the exact same fucking thing with iAd. You collected user data and used it to target ads. Well, not the same thing because you sucked at it and shut it down, but the same principle.
      Feb 1
  • Cult mentality
    Jan 315
    • Facebook XDPH45123
      It’s called company pride. If you worked for a top place to work, you would know what it is.
      Jan 31
    • Dude PlayStation is waaay cooler than FB. Come on even you can’t argue that. Equal brand recognition also, maybe even more so overseas.
      Jan 31
    • Facebook XDPH45123
      Only dude
      Jan 31
    • Puppet pqXV61
      working at fb being a point of pride for someone is a huge red flag tbh
      Jan 31
    • Microsoft / EngMissingNo.
      Jerking off to a picture of Mark Zuckerberg every day to demonstrate my pride
      Feb 1
  • Facebook / Eng
    fb2017

    FacebookEng

    PRE
    Google, Oracle
    BIO
    worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
    fb2017more
    As long as I get paid double as you, who cares.
    Jan 3111
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      The fake news media keep shitting on fb, what can we do? So as long as we want money and get paid well, who care those fake media.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      So you’re telling me that FB didn’t use their Apple-issued enterprise certificate in order to circumvent the App Store review process? That’s fake news? Are you serious?
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      Wrong. FB wanted to distribute a private user-study app to very very few people (in few thousands) on a need basis (which is why it didn’t want to put it on the App Store which would otherwise automatically invite a million people) and some idiot PM/engineer thought it’d be clever to reuse the enterprise certificate to do this and got into trouble.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      “User study” != “in-house”.

      And TestFlight is an option too. Or hell, hand them jail broken iPhones if harvesting their data is so important.

      All I see here is circumvention galore. They knew that the app wouldn’t pass muster, so they resorted to tactics that had consequences. They need to own it and move on. Google was man enough to do it (and didn’t lose a whole day of productivity because of it), so what’s the matter with you guys at FB?
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      Facebook doesn’t do TestFlight anymore since it’s too huge for that (> 10k employees). Even if it did for this specific case, it would still be public and therefore the first 10k people will be reporters and early adopters who don’t give the signal that FB wants from the research. Therefore FB needed to think of a way to distribute a user-research app that would not blow up in the media. This kind of user research is standard practice and everyone in the industry does it, including Apple.

      Also, would you rather prefer Facebook not use enterprise certificate but hand out jailbroken iPhones which is clearly illegal?

      FYI, Google also had its certificates revoked by Apple for doing something similar. Please catch up on your news.
      Jan 31
    • Handing out jailbroken iPhones isn’t illegal.
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      Fine, definitely more shady then.
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      @niXC18 I'll make you some points clear. Facebook released that VPN app previously in App store. Then Apple called Facebook to remove the app because it collects data even when you don't use your facebook app. Then only Facebook began to distribute using enterprise certificate. And we all know what happened after.

      Now tell me why they are desperatly after user data this much. Isn't it morally wrong? And still they have not removed the VPN in Play Store.

      https://arstechnica.com/civis/ucp.php?mode=login&return_to=%2Ftech-policy%2F2018%2F08%2Ffacebook-violates-apples-data-gathering-rules-pulls-vpn-from-app-store%2F
      Jan 31
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      @alcoholic: please read some other articles for a clear timeline. The research app has been released off-app store since 2016, long before the VPN app Onavo was asked to be removed from the App Store.

      They have not removed it from the Play Store since Google is still ok with it as it sees nothing wrong with users choosing to download and use it.
      Jan 31
    • Microsoft / EngMissingNo.
      This is the only honest answer. Everyone else is doing mental gymnastics.
      Feb 1
  • Amazon alcoholic
    OP
    So you guys don't care about ethics? I think you guys care just about money. Money is not always important. Someday you guys will realize. Really Facebook guys are arrogant and care only about TC.
    Jan 316
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      We care. We just don't care fake news media. At least those fake news journalist earn peanuts.
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      Lol. Facebook talking about fake news media.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      😂 Oh, you care about the fake news media, FB. You’re being continually roasted over it! Someday you will realize...
      Jan 31
    • Apple hMWF54
      Ethics in corporate America??? That’s new
      Jan 31
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      Facebook is just a platform where anyone can post news or opinions. The fake news media are different. They intentionally twist facts and report fake news.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      Wait. So let me guess - the only fake news is negative news about FB.

      Keep going, this is rich... 😆
      Jan 31
  • Qualtrics / Engcodetastic
    As usual, The Onion puts it best: “Facebook Employees Explain Daily Struggle Of Trying To Care About Company's Unethical Practices When Gig So Cushy”

    https://youtu.be/-DiBc1vkTig
    Jan 310
  • Facebook dollahbill
    It’s because FB is pretty transparent internally, so we often see bullshit stories about FB for what they are. A lot of what I read in the news about FB doesn’t reflect what I see every day at work. I’m not talking about internal propaganda from leadership, I’m talking about engineering initiatives I actually see happening.
    Jan 319
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      Okay. Please give me a binary answer. Don't you think it is morally wrong to release an app that mines the data of kids?
      Jan 31
    • Uber yTzY24
      No, it is not clear that it is morally wrong. The internet and apps built upon it are too new for a robust model of morality to have emerged and become widely accepted. All that exists now are opinions, which are fickle, easily manipulated, and largely worthless.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      Uber measuring morality 😂
      Jan 31
    • Uber yTzY24
      Do you think it’s morally wrong to build obsolescence into your products?

      No, everyone has forgotten about that now, and nobody really gives a fuck.
      Jan 31
    • Apple / EngApple Park
      That’s the best you’ve got? Your iPhone 3G is slow in 2019? 🙄
      Jan 31
    • Uber yTzY24
      Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?
      Jan 31
    • Facebook dollahbill
      I think there is a way to collect anonymized data from teens phones that is moral. It would, at a minimum, involve compensation, a knowledge of what is being collected and by whom, and parental consent. I have no first-hand knowledge of this particular project so I can’t really speak to it. I do have first-hand knowledge of our engineering work on other issues mentioned in comments in this post (e.g. child porn detection) and I’ve lost faith in the media to report accurately on FB due to stories covering issues I do know about. And that skepticism doesn’t end at stories about FB. I’m not labeling everything fake news, but do take everything with a grain of salt and try to figure out what the reporter isn’t telling you.
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      @dollahbill. I'll make you some points clear. Facebook released that VPN app previously in App store. Then Apple called Facebook to remove the app because it collects data even when you don't use your facebook app. Then only Facebook began to distribute using enterprise certificate. And we all know what happened after.

      Now tell me why they are desperatly after user data this much. Isn't it morally wrong? And still they have not removed the VPN in Play Store.

      https://arstechnica.com/civis/ucp.php?mode=login&return_to=%2Ftech-policy%2F2018%2F08%2Ffacebook-violates-apples-data-gathering-rules-pulls-vpn-from-app-store%2F
      Jan 31
    • Facebook dollahbill
      I’m not taking a position on whether we violated the tos but I definitely don’t derive morality from apple’s tos. There are plenty of moral things that apple doesn’t allow in their store.
      Jan 31
  • They are masters of manipulating the dialogue of social networks. Maybe it’s their HR and they created a bunch of company accounts via an unlimited supply of email addresses. Any actor, fuck even the poor nation of Russia, can create an effective online narrative. Because it only takes a team of a few dozen working full time.
    Jan 310
  • Google lbrtyblle
    I think that behavior is rampant across Blind, whether people are defending their company, or lifestyle, or values they don't want to grapple with the fact that their situation is anything but noble
    Jan 313
    • I point out the limits of my company when I see it’s fit. It’s healthy to have as objective of perspectives as you can. You drink the koolaid too much, and you might harm yourself (e.g., have a bunch of company stock, view things through the rose colored glasses, company stock rapidly declines, you end up a bagholder)
      Jan 31
    • Apple oMIK41
      One word: Sandberg
      Jan 31
    • Amazon dock this
      Intuit, watch Adam ruins the economy
      Jan 31
  • AMD / R&Dbimbilika
    I think a lot of the Facebook hate has motivations elsewhere... In many cases it almost feels like the knife maker is jailed because someone use a knife he sold to do a murder...
    Jan 312
    • Facebook makes terrible decisions often and handles the fall out poorly over and over. At some point you have to point a finger at the culture.
      Jan 31
    • AMD / R&Dbimbilika
      I completely agree with "handle the fallout" part. But being a multi billion dollar company, its the only way to handle without burning shareholder money - hide, deny, delay, mild admission in the end if nothing works.
      Jan 31
  • Facebook hUoT40
    It honestly is interesting that no FB employee ever really starts a thread attacking others. Maybe it’s because we haven’t lowered the bar or have a low bar like others. We’re not as insecure - no reason to be. If you’re lucky enough to get an on-site here, you can find out for yourself.

    The only way I will leave Facebook is if we start attracting lower talent. Every single day we have people from google (I’m xoogler), Netflix, and ironically enough apple clamoring and applying to get in. Facebook is filled with smart people who went to top schools (Stanford, Princeton, MIT, Harvard, etc etc) and are genuinely awesome people. My coworkers make and break this place. We’re smart enough to make decisions for ourselves and have better options than to stay here if we felt we were being brainwashed. We spent so much money on abuse prevention last year to the detriment of stock - and yet attrition was a record low. It is because we see internally the actions being taken. Of course, being happy at your work this is going to breed jealously by others outside. If you think all of us are easily brainwashed, think again. We have the ability to ask management tough questions every week and we do - how many times do you meet with your ceo?

    OP is breathing heavily trying to incite an angry response but can’t even get his timelines right, let alone be coherent. As others have stated, this enterprise app study has been going on since 2016 as was google’s.

    For the hate on here, users don’t view the platform in the same way as others. If you would have believed blind posters from other companies, you would have thought the stock was at $0 and we lost all users already.

    https://slate.com/technology/2019/01/facebook-research-vpn-app-teens-paid-data-collection-project-atlas.html

    But of course the above article is not mainstream because it doesn’t fit the narrative
    Feb 19
    • Microsoft / EngMissingNo.
      What are all these brilliant people doing if Facebook can't seem to make a decent chat app and the platform leaks data left and right. FB is the SharePoint of social media.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook hUoT40
      Have you not heard of messenger?
      Feb 1
    • Microsoft / EngMissingNo.
      Yeah it sucks ass
      Feb 1
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      I'm not taking about intelligence or pay. You want me to accept that you guys are intelligent than me, I accept it. I am not having any problem.

      The problem I'm talking is why you guys not criticizing things which are morally wrong. You're doing your job and get paid. Thats all the relationship between the company and you. But you're going to next level by defending your company in balant data breach, scandals and spying.

      How come everyone except Facebook employees acknowledges that the VPN app used to mine data of kids is nasty?
      Feb 1
    • Facebook hUoT40
      You can’t even get the timeline right, give it a rest
      Feb 1
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      The timeline is irrelevant here. I need a binary answer.

      Don't you think it is morally wrong to harvest data of kids? Forget about Apple TOS.
      Feb 1
    • Amazon you do you
      Feb 1
    • Amazon you do you
      Super high bar
      Feb 1
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      @alcoholic If Amazon wants to adapt Alexa to work well for kids and wants to understand what kids like and don’t (example: games, movies etc), they have to do some research since adults can’t magically tell wat most kids like. Same goes for Facebook. If Facebook wants to make safer products for kids like Messenger Kids, FB needs to understand what they like and dislike. If understanding what kids need and like is morally wrong, are all toy companies doing morally wrong stuff?
      Feb 3
  • Apple hMWF54
    I am not on Facebook but your post is naive at the best, particularly coming from Amazon.

    The new currency is user data and most companies, FB, Google, Amazon live on that. But then look at insurance and banking companies and you will have the same behavior.

    Do the question is, why there is no serious privacy legislation?

    Well the answer is simple and clear, just watch the government investigations. A total joke.
    Jan 313
    • New @(^_^)@
      Someone that works at Amazon can't have an opinion on Facebook?
      Jan 31
    • Apple hMWF54
      I did not say they can’t have an opinion, I stated the opinion was naive
      Jan 31
    • Dropbox / Eng100k🔗🐼
      User data is the new currency, yes, but I swear Facebook mines it and distributes this data in a shady way. I know Google and Amazon collects my user data to improve their products (ads for websites and ads to improve sales). For Facebook, the use case and purpose behind the data collection is not very clear and there is no transparency externally. Let’s start with the fact that Facebook is an ad selling company but no one at Facebook will admit that’s what keeps FB running. They always feed you some sunshine and rainbow BS about connecting people together and making the world a better place. You know that’s not the true purpose of FB because the ads are so invasive and aggressive now and the “connecting people” part is depression inducing at best because of how toxic and fake social media is. If FB were honest about its users being the product then maybe people would trust them more but they keep on trying to brush it under the rug and make it seem like they care about users when they really don’t. All the new features FB has only exist to keep people addicted so FB can profit more off of them. An engineer working on such a feature might feel like he’s making impact and making the world a better place but you have to look at the whole forest instead of the trees.
      Feb 1
  • Oracle while(1);
    Op Does Amazon have moral or ethical value? Why do employees work there.
    Jan 313
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      But I don't always defend Amazon. The point here is bunch of Facebook employees defended Facebook when Apple revoked their certificate. Also they defended for an app that collects data of kids. I will definitely not defend Amazon if Amazon does something like this.
      Jan 31
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      Additional note. That VPN app is still available in Play Store. That shows how much Facebook values privacy.
      Jan 31
    • Dropbox / Eng100k🔗🐼
      Amazon at least has a great public image as a retailer and cloud provider and treats its product users/customers like gold. Facebook still denies to this day their product users are actually their money generating hamsters and has been treating them like crap. Amazon employees are replaceable and they are getting paid at least but idk about the fb user-base. I think they are probably worried about user retention at this point. All these privacy and trust concerns from their users and FB still won’t take responsibility or even admit it’s a problem. They still ignore the elephant in the room and say it’s all fake news, just shut up and keep on running on the hamster wheel don’t worry about what goes behind the scenes.
      Feb 1
  • Procore oxlkspi
    I mean if someone admits Facebook is terrible, then by their own lights they’re kinda terrible for helping it unless they can’t leave for some reason. But programmers can jump from Facebook to other bigtech pretty easily, so the “gotta pay bills” excuse doesn’t hold water.

    People will do a lot of mental gymnastics when their self-image is on the line
    Jan 311
  • LinkedIn
    !_9)5?11'|

    LinkedIn

    PRE
    Amazon, Google
    !_9)5?11'|more
    So think about this. You go to a person who is seemingly different from you. Instead of a positive thing like a "hi" you start with an attack and a generalization. This person who is already stressed out and/or possibly a victim of circumstance has two options. 1. Validate your attack or 2. Fight back. What do you think this person is going to do when cornered?
    Jan 311
    • Apple HumanDoing
      Cornered? This is the internet. Close the browser.
      Feb 1
  • Puppet pqXV61
    they don't want to feel bad about having sold their souls for tc
    Jan 311
    • Facebook / Eng
      Ô ptimist

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Facebook
      Ô ptimistmore
      Tc or gtfo!
      Jan 31
  • AMD / R&Dbimbilika
    Look at how amazon makes states compete for opening a fulfillment centre. That is just using clout for special treatment. How is that ethical ?
    Jan 311
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      Sure we need to criticize Amazon. I'm okay with it. The point I'm trying to convey is just because I'm working for Amazon I shouldn't have to defend Amazon all time.
      Jan 31
  • AMD / R&Dbimbilika
    I am not sure why people expect companies to be ethical - companies are here to make money within the confines of law - usually operating on the edges of it. Governments are there to.make the laws for the companies - in the best interests of its citizens. Problems start in countries like the US where the government is in bed with the companies...
    Jan 313
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      See these big corporations anyway find a loophole in laws. So it is the duty of common man to criticize morally wrong things done by these corporations.
      Jan 31
    • Dropbox / Eng100k🔗🐼
      I think the pickle FB is in is that they are dealing with people’s personal data and misusing it and people are taking it “personally”. Other companies can be corrupt for whatever reason but their evil actions are not so personal and not so covert either and don’t effect people on a uniquely individual level.
      Feb 1
    • Facebook
      Narnia

      Facebook

      BIO
      that would be telling
      Narniamore
      They expect companies to behave ethically when the companies present themselves as something other than purely profit-driven enterprises. Facebook doesn’t describe itself as an ad-sales-entertainment platform, and MZ et al very specifically refer to “our community” vs user base/clients/market etc.
      Feb 5
  • Facebook mensa
    I think most Facebook devs realize FB is trash and are just here for a paycheck.
    Feb 11
    • New @(^_^)@
      Great answer. Is there anything FB could do from an ethics standpoint that would cause you to quit?
      Feb 7
  • Credit Karma ndjjjsbfmk
    At least, they treat employees better than Amazon does. LoL
    Jan 310
  • Apple HumanDoing
    I find it baffling anyone can try and defend such abhorrent and damaging behavior such as that of FB. Disputably the most psychologically destructive platform in history when considering its virility.
    Feb 11
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      Some prepared for GRE!
      Feb 1
  • Facebook / Eng
    Ô ptimist

    FacebookEng

    PRE
    Facebook
    Ô ptimistmore
    I understand that when all you know about a company is what is visible from the outside via press and or products, you have a partial understanding. We're all subject to that about all the other companies we don't work for. I hear Amazon is a sweat shop and apple is so siloed that PMs can't talk about their work with other PMs... Netflix randomly fires people all the time. There is much worse out there. Is any of that true? Probably to some degree. But you don't know. None of us do.
    Jan 313
    • Apple Watch
      True but the fight that you are putting up to defend would be better won if you remain silent - specially with the above wisdom.
      Jan 31
    • Facebook / Eng
      Ô ptimist

      FacebookEng

      PRE
      Facebook
      Ô ptimistmore
      But... Where would be the fun of that?
      Jan 31
    • Apple Watch
      Well if you do that you expose yourself to the same duplicity you are getting accused for..
      Jan 31
  • Facebook Solais
    Lot's of money and 3 meals a day
    Feb 12
    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      So you will defend the action of harvesting the data of kids?

      By same analogy, if Russia gives you loads of money, you will spy country ?
      Feb 1
    • Netflix NULLL
      If there wasn’t a risk of going to jail I’m sure many would.
      Feb 1
  • Apple EXQB54
    I'm personally a lot happier after deleting my Facebook account.
    Feb 41
    • Apple
      niXC18

      Apple

      BIO
      Hello, my name is
      niXC18more
      Good for you
      Feb 4
  • Facebook cocobandit
    A lot of the vocal people who defend Facebook actually love the product and the "good" the company does. When I first see these people, they feel like a cult, but how can you explain to someone in a cult that they're in a cult. As long as they can post their food and get some likes, they feel good about themselves.
    Jan 311
    • New @(^_^)@
      Do you think Facebook is a net positive for humanity?
      Jan 31
  • Tektronix / Sales
    BlueBerd

    TektronixSales

    PRE
    Oracle
    BlueBerdmore
    Drinking the koolaid
    Feb 11
    • Tektronix / Sales
      BlueBerd

      TektronixSales

      PRE
      Oracle
      BlueBerdmore
      Companies are very cultish these days.
      Feb 2
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Amazon alcoholic
      OP
      It is morally wrong to harvest the kids data even with parental consent.
      Feb 1
  • Square / Engd4jex6
    I've seen so much on Blind of this, from employees not only at FB, but also Amazon, LinkedIn ... You name it.
    Jan 310
  • Facebook / EngFreeWilly
    Because we are constantly being attacked? Are you that dumb?
    Feb 23
    • Apple HumanDoing
      There’s a fine line between valid criticism of a company and you as a person. That line gets blurred when you begin defending the inexcusable behavior of your employer.
      Feb 2
    • Facebook / EngFreeWilly
      I am not defending or attacking my employer. But when I am personally attacked because I work for FB, that's when the stupid line has been crossed. Whether I work for FB or not, FB will continue to exist. I am not enabling anything. I am here to make a living. I find it hilarious when people here claim "their" company is doing a good/bad deed for the world. Your company? You're a peon that could be easily replaced.
      Feb 2
    • Amazon you do you
      You're going to be judged by your association. Happens in Seattle with Amazon just as much. It's not an excuse at all.
      Feb 2
  • Or else piped?
    Jan 310

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