HR Issues

Why hire new grads when experienced NON-FANG engrs are cheaper?

Dec 28, 2018

The 220k+ a typical new grad gets at a FANG is way more what the vast majority of senior engrs/leads get at lower tier cos.

So why aren't these job opportunities open to all these experienced/seasoned engrs out there? Yeah the top 1% of their new grads hires may deserve it, but not sold that the rest them are any better.

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  • Lyft stnic
    Because in 1-2 years they have the potential to outperform those other senior engineers you mention. They can mold these new grads to tailor fit the team/company. Cut bad habits, instill company values etc.
    Dec 28, 20185
    • Symantec O (1)
      And lose new grads in two years to next highest bidder.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Reddit pzqf14
      Further, the firm might not get another chance to hire them again if they become rockstar engineers somewhere else.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • One year.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Booking.com B.Zoo
      One day.

      Lol, what are you talking about? One year? You can learn a language/platform on a decent level if you only have 3 years of experience with it.

      And you know what? Knowing only one language makes you a really crappy engineer.

      New grads are so naive.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • B.Zoo
      That's the difference buddy. :)
      Dec 29, 2018
  • LinkedIn Akzx
    Because they have potential
    Dec 28, 201813
    • Intel plebHW->SW
      @sap Do you want someone who can’t leave cause they’re complacent or just stuck in their mediocrity, or do you want someone whose skillset is valuable enough to make them mobile?
      Dec 28, 2018
    • For you all is white or black, nothing in between?. You are implying that if somebody is not in fang is because he/she is mediocre? I'm sure more than half of ppl in your family is not in fang and you call them mediocre?
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Goldman Sachs XzxU53
      Are you serious upset that you couldn’t make it to fang?
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Intel plebHW->SW
      @sap The conversation is specifically about hiring *senior* engineers into new grad roles. I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that if someone has many years of experience but is taking new grad roles/pay, they’re mediocre (or complacent/comfortable)
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon sde3
      Wow lalala, go and take some chill pill dude. It cant fix your stupidity though.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Spotify KXAo87
      I'd be that mad all the time if I worked at SAP too
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Unity UnityTech
      Wow SAP why you so mad bro?
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Wow ppl making stupid websites and feel they are incredible.. no documentation, fucking buggy software, zero processes and they feel they are super engineers.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon sde3
      Wha
      Dec 29, 2018
    • Facebook eqfH07
      Apply some 💧to your 🔥
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Amazon JSnowflake
    Before you ask why, ask if. New grads don't get 220k. At Google, Apple or Amazon. And at Facebook only if they were top performers during their internship.
    Dec 28, 20185
    • Seriously not even masters or PhD can expect 200 as new grads. 160? Sure.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Apple cho Chang
      Doesn’t google sometimes offer 350k RSUs to non-PhD new grads?
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon JSnowflake
      RSUs... over 4 years. Not TC.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Apple cho Chang
      Correct, but 350k RSUs over 4 years would put TC in the ~220k ballpark.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Amazon JSnowflake
      That would be for a PhD or a top tier masters in ML or similar. That is not a normal new grad offer. Not saying it doesn't happen "sometimes", but not frequently.
      Dec 28, 2018
  • Google VgYn36
    Typical new grad gets $160k and some modest signing.
    Dec 28, 20180
  • Facebook public2
    No one wants "cheaper" employees for designer roles. Unlike manufacturing where a body is a body in tech a good employee can be worth ten mediocre employees in terms of output.
    Dec 28, 20183
    • Like if designer was rocket science job. most of them don't even have a degree on that.
      Dec 28, 2018
    • WordStream uvaM26
      lol he isn't talking about literal design roles.....
      Dec 28, 2018
    • Facebook public2
      Rocket science is a design (as opposed to a operational) job :)
      Dec 28, 2018
  • Facebook Whateverrs
    Right or wrong, they want to hire the best, brightest, hardest working people. If you've been working for 10 years and don't meet the bar of L5, you are probably not the best, brightest, or hardest working.

    Many new grads will leave, but the ones who remain will become senior engineers leading important projects. They aren't looking for people who will join them to be an L3 for the next ten years. A smart hard working junior engineer who grows into a bigger role will also become an expert at some things. An "experienced" junior engineer who has demonstrated an inability to grow, learn, or take a lead isn't nearly as useful.

    This is why I would often advise young engineers to front load their efforts. Companies look at trajectories. Your early hard work and experience is highly valuable. Trying to find a way to coast in a first job will set you back substantially for the rest of your career.

    It's also a numbers game though. it's harder to scale up experienced hires. There are only so many small startups and other companies from which to poach sufficiently qualified, experienced cheaper engineers. Some of them are building companies that will be your customers, and you want a healthy market to exist. There needs to be a pipeline, and the top firms play a big part in creating that pipeline. There are only a couple million software engineers in all of the United States, about 50 thousand computer science graduates graduating every year, and Google has about 20k software engineers. It's more convenient to show up at a bunch of top schools and hire a significant percentage of the graduating class each year than to understand the specific limitations of thousands of individual experienced low-performing cheaper engineers who have not otherwise progressed.

    Finally though, when/if you do get hired as an experienced engineer in fang, shoot for an appropriate experience level and seek to perform at that level. A junior role might offer an enticing pay increase vs your current terrible job, and that might seem easier to get, but it isn't. be ambitious. You're not going to seem like a good fit selling yourself short. Just because you didn't go to a top school or weren't coming from a fang company doesn't mean you can't catch up (I didn't go to a top school and certainly wouldn't have got hired by any of these companies straight out of school). I've know experienced non-fang engineers who more than doubled their TC when moving to fang. Some of these companies have demonstrated a willingness to pay for your value on a pretty consistent scale, regardless of what your prior compensation happened to be.
    Dec 28, 20180
  • Benefitfocus dMOf15
    I love the arrogance of west coast engineers.
    Dec 28, 20181
    • Intel plebHW->SW
      Even if true, relevance to thread?
      Dec 28, 2018
  • SAP OIva73
    A mediocre employee is lost opportunity of time and money for the company. Not worth hiring mediocre experience when you can hire new graduates with no baggage and no ego (often cheaper).

    If you think you’re worth as much as $220k/year compared with those Ivy League fresh grads, then by all means prove it - go make the monies.

    I am a hiring manager. I get more productivity from my career-shifting adults (fresh to engineering, life experience else-wise) than I do from the “senior talent” on loan to my team. Whenever I get offered someone as an internal transfer, I ask: can I have the headcount and hire someone else instead? Often, the answer is no, I either take the person for “free” (no headcount burn for me) or they get laid off. 90% of the time, they’re simply not worth the management overhead to keep around...
    Dec 28, 20181
  • Applied Material VtKJ67
    220k+ for new grads? holy moley I need to get out of HW.
    Dec 28, 20182
    • Amazon djsjsjsj
      Well. Amazon new phd grad easily get 280k at seattle..
      Dec 29, 2018
    • Amazon JSnowflake
      PhD is not a "new grad". That is an L5 applied scientist role you are talking about, generally only open to top tier PhDs in ML and related fields.
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Amazon anonomon
    If you have years of experience but can only meet the entry level bar at a FANG that means your growth rate is terrible and you don’t have that potential
    Dec 29, 20181
    • Amazon anonomon
      I can’t respect someone who was a senior engineer or tech leader that we can only trust with feature work (Entry level bar). Something is wrong with that picture. Think about it
      Dec 29, 2018
  • Credit Karma uivhjnwnh
    Why are the top picks in the NBA draft usually 80-90% college freshman?
    Dec 28, 20181
    • Credit Karma uivhjnwnh
      Talent in swe is distributed similarly. People who failed FNG/HFT interviews out of undergrad are by definition not the best.
      Dec 28, 2018
  • Citrix Systems XDOa40
    We all should be happy that there are companies out there paying 200k. This is a very healthy competition. Don't complaint about this.
    Dec 28, 20181
    • New DvVM00
      they only pay that because col is so high. i personally don’t recommend anyone move to bay area where you can get these high salaries. very hard to buy a house here and you still have to deal with the shitty traffic, hipster city or bland suburbs.
      Jan 4
  • LinkedIn youNme
    More potential? Easier to mold? No baggage?
    Dec 28, 20180

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