Housing

Why is everyone obsessed about housing?

New / EngDerek last
Nov 30

Why is everyone on blind so maniacal about buying a house?

Especially in the Bay, you lock in hundreds of thousands of dollars for down payment and you ensure yourself a life of slavery by paying an insanely fat mortgage every month that puts so much stress on you, then 3 years from now you change job and your commute now becomes twice as long just because you can’t move closer to work because of your house.

Why can’t you just rent a smaller place close to work and invest everything somewhere else? (E.g. rental real estate where it actually makes sense and reasonable price/rent ratio, or stock market index funds).

Is it because you have big families and many kids?

Age: 32
TC: 400k
NW: 1.2M (all in vanguard)

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  • Microsoft / EngKennyH
    Because Bay Area housing has had incredible double digit returns over the last bull market. Oakland has done 70% or something. You won’t get that kind of ROI in vanguard unless you’re an options genius.
    Nov 306
    • Microsoft / EngKennyH
      Beyond just speculation, if you like the Area and want to stay here it makes sense to lock in a mortgage before they go higher. Though maybe not this year.
      Nov 30
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Is that true? Total stock market has more than doubled in the last bull market.

      Perhaps you are referring to the fact that by owning a house you can get leverage much easier?
      Nov 30
    • Google / Eng
      zss

      GoogleEng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      12 yrs engineer in tech
      zssmore
      Yes, you put 20% and if home doubles, your 20% inc 5 times.
      Nov 30
    • Google FYlH08
      Idiot OP is ignorant af. Do you know housing returns are tax deferred or exempt? If you live in a house more than 2 years your taxes are waived. That's a 15 - 40% jump in returns right there compared to vanguard or S&P500. Get the logic, idiot? And I haven't even talked about rental income in case you move and how that can be offset against depreciation, and the 1031 rule. Once a slave, always a slave - stay there and stop wondering why people but houses. Otherwise grow an owners mentality and buy one and learn.
      Dec 2
    • Amazon / Engbuffdude
      Wait what?! 2+ years makes tax waived? Where can I read more about it?
      6d
    • Google FYlH08
      Google for California 2/5 capital gains tax waiver. If you live in your house for 2 years you can claim capital gains tax exemption on it. But you can use this benefit only once every 5 years. Better get started!
      6d
  • New Pppoop
    I am up 1.2 million on my 2 houses. House is the best way to build equity. Rent is a waste.
    Nov 303
    • Microsoft twkh55
      I read in another thread someone was responding to why invest in real estate because the ROI in the stock market for the same time period was higher and they should have invested in stocks to get a higher ROI :facepalm:

      Most people on blind don't understand leveraging.
      Nov 30
    • Accenture Shabuzen
      I mean, you can leverage in the stock market as well to some degree. But you’re right, you won’t be able to borrow $1 million to put into stocks. Otherwise, everyone will be putting money in REITs
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      You can’t leverage the same way in stock market.

      With rental properties you can put 25% to 30% down and have the rent cover the PITI and other expenses. Thus as long as rent doesn’t decrease year by year you will never face a ‘margin call’.

      With stocks, you get margin call when its price goes down (which is much more likely than rent going down yoy). And I honestly can’t find any stock that pays enough dividends to cover a hypothetical 30-year mortgage on itself.
      Dec 1
  • Facebook public2
    Rent is unstable and unpredictable; mortgages are the same for decades with a max yearly increase of 2% propery tax. Interest rates have been insanely low for over the past decade which made leveraging money almost free. People enjoy owning property as it is theirs improve or do what they want without any permission needed. Finally people are hopeful that appreciation continues to outpace the norm and real estate is a pretty low risk leverage leading to wealth. Not for everyone of course.
    Nov 302
    • Rent is much more predictable than housing prices.
      Nov 30
    • Facebook public2
      Incorrect. A mortgage payment is locked for 30 years. Rent changes anytime the owner wants and market allows. Buy a house today and your payment in year 1 and 25 is exactly the same (less property taxes). Rent on the other hand is likely to change every year. Even if housing values drop 50% one year over 30 it's likely to beat renting.
      Nov 30
  • IBM gösser
    Because Blind is full of Asians (both East and South) and Asians tend to overinvest in real estate. I fully agree with OP. If 80-90% of your wealth is in one asset class, hell, just one particular asset, then it's not a very diversified portfolio. Don't buy property for the sake of buying property.
    Nov 3019
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      Depreciation, property tax, insurance, interest, repairs, property manager, travel, home office, equipment. With that combined I am paying very little tax. Confused why this would be different for you.
      Dec 1
    • New DuQvV7x
      So, your net revenue is limited.

      I derive significant net-income from mine so it works a bit differently.
      Dec 1
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      @DuQvV7x Where are your properties? I don’t think you can get much net profit in the Bay Area unless you bought a long time ago.
      Dec 1
    • New DuQvV7x
      I’m Midwest based.

      My first property was 19 years ago (when rates were 11%)

      25% of the portfolio was purchased between 2008 & 2011

      I’m just coasting now.
      Dec 1
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      Sorry why is my net revenue limited. Each property is cash flowing around 500, around 12% cash on cash . Each property individually shows little tax to the IRS. You are using an accountant right?
      Dec 1
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      What are your thoughts on real estate syndications? For someone who still wants to be passive.
      Dec 1
    • New DuQvV7x
      Limited is relative.

      Not trying to diminish your accomplishments but 75% of my rentals are paid off and I’m getting 6 figure post expense income. No accountant can disappear that cash without IRS scrutiny.

      Cheers.
      Dec 1
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      So you would claim everything I claim except mortgage interest. Should be minor. Tax rate should still be low. Whatevs. I believe you. At a bare minimum I really hope you are claiming depreciation.

      @op syndications are great. Just go with guys who have a proven track record. Returns should beat s&p500, and passive. Good way of diversifying. Returns are usually in the 12-14% range.
      Dec 1
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Thanks. The question is: where would you find reasonable ones? As I said earlier, bigger pockets seems just full of marketers, everyone is seemingly trying to help but when you google their name they are usually paid promoters for whatever they pitch...
      Dec 1
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      Lookup Joe Fairless and Thompson investing. Usually 50k minimum investment. Must be an accredited investor.
      Dec 1
  • LinkedIn / Eng
    goldbug

    LinkedInEng

    PRE
    Google
    BIO
    Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
    goldbugmore
    Why are you so obsessed with Vanguard?
    Nov 309
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      By vanguard I mean index funds. I’m heavily diversified in domestic and international index funds, vanguard is just one of the cheapest options to obtain the exposure. I don’t give af about vanguard itself.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      I don’t believe in index funds or equities in general. What should I buy?

      Plus real estates have favorable tax treatment.($500K tax free appreciation for primary residence. Depreciation deduction for rentals and 1031 exchange to defer capital gains indefinitely)

      And massive leverage for real estates.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      And why is everybody so obsessed with index fund?
      Nov 30
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      I’m not obsessed with index funds. I just don’t want to buy a house in the Bay because price/rent ratio is ridiculously low so there’s no way I would even break even after accounting for all the PITI expenses and maintenance. So I was wondering how people justify such a big expense to them, especially at the top of the market like now.

      And I don’t have the stomach/education to invest out of state in places where real estate is instead a good cash flow source.

      Since I happen to believe that the stock market is not a scam but it’s actually tied to the productivity of the underlying companies and entitles me to get a real share of their profits (minus the short term volatility, just like real estate), its my best option.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      OK, but you got your entire net worth in index funds even though you are not obsessed with them.

      A house is something you can live in and it is a basic necessity. I can understand why ppl put all their money in it or be ‘obsessed’ about it.

      If you are talking about investment returns, then Bay Area real estate still did very well even with no leverage compared to S&P index. And I mentioned there are tax advantages.
      Nov 30
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      So you would recommend to a person like me to sell 400k+ of my index funds now (~30%) and go get a mortgage for a 1.5M (minus 400k down payment) house in SF? Curious.

      And what if next year I decide to take a job in the Deep South Bay, meaning that I either move away from my house and rent it for less than my mortgage, or handle a terrible commute of 4 hours a day just because I have to live there?

      I’m just honestly asking for your point of view if you were me, no sarcasm.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      That really depends on whether you want to own and whether you want to be a landlord. I hate renting and I don’t move too much so I own. I am already a landlord so adding another property is OK for me.

      If I had 1.2M and TC 400K in SF I would be looking to buy some multi-units with good numbers in SF and probably live in one unit myself.
      Nov 30
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Well I envy you then. I work too hard and thus have very little time to build an education in real estate and roam around to evaluate properties. If I were to go out and buy a multi family in SF I would for sure buy a lemon, lose my down payment and then get sued by some tenant who breaks his leg inside my unit. It’s really more like a business, in the sense that you have to know what you’re doing. It’s more like putting 400k on a single stock, you really have to evaluate the fundamentals of your property, you can’t just bank on “oh well, the economy will go up and so will my property”.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      It is a business. And stock trading is also a business. There is no easy way to generate a good return on your 1.2M capital. And I don’t think passive ETFs are the answer.

      I wish my job could motivate me more so I work harder and make more. But it looks like I will be my own boss at some point in the future and get rid of this job.

      Owning a SFH is still a good idea financially if you are staying in SF longterm. SFHs are mediocre investments but they are still better than index funds if you don’t trade it too often.
      Nov 30
  • Intel / Engpleb
    You guys talk about housing as investment because you're already wealthy and you have options. But most people can barely scrape some downpayment for a residence to give them some peace of mind that they won't have to struggle to keep pace with increasing rents or asshole landlords. Bring kids into the picture and it makes a lot of sense to try to grow roots in whichever place you can afford.

    You have to consider that not many jobs have such big opportunities as tech. Those people wouldn't think about commute and relocation that much. There are also self employed people for whom driving around is part of the job.

    I didn't grow up here but when I was a kid the perspective of moving even in a different part of town was the scariest thought ever. Not all people are very adaptable. I still don't like moving around and I wouldn't exclude foregoing a job if it's too far.

    I bought a small condo this year. Not ideal but I had no financial perspectives for the near future. I wasn't able to save much every year, far less than the appreciation in the last few years. Basically half of my income was going on rent. So when I got a one-off bigger chunk of money I preferred to put it into a downpayment. If I were to invest it, it would have taken many years of big gains to afford more. And then my salary still wouldn't be able to cover a bigger loan.

    Sometimes I feel you guys are living in a bubble, totally disconnected from the rest of the society. It's not all roses and 300-400k TC.
    Nov 304
    • Facebook public2
      Exactly, 300-400k tc was so last year. 400+ or bust.
      Nov 30
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      While there is truth to what you say, you can save more by spending less. Even if you make 80k a year, you can live cheap and invest often. The longer your money is in the market the higher appreciation you should see. Read the book rich dad poor dad it may change your perspective.
      Nov 30
    • Intel / Engpleb
      I kept hearing about that book from people into personal development and since I believe that's a scam I never considered to read it. But I've seen it recommended here too so I'm adding it to the list.

      The thing is I've been neting 4-5k with rent climbing to 2.5k, add utilities, gas, insurance, food, I'm barely left with a couple of hundred at the end of the month. I haven't eaten in a restaurant for months. Recently bought a pair of shoes for $15. Electronics are 5-6 years old. I'm really not a big spender. The only way I could have saved a little more was to move with roommates which is the only thing I don't want to compromise on.

      The more money you have, the easier it gets to make more money.
      Nov 30
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      Where do you live. Can you house hack (google it)
      Nov 30
  • Pandora tIbk87
    The thing about real estate as an investment that I never hear anyone talk about is the kind of leverage you get. Where else can you get 5x leverage for 30 years? If you have a margin account, you can get 4x, but you can't even hold that overnight.
    Nov 305
    • Microsoft twkh55
      Ditto, plus you are at a higher risk on margin to be margin-called vs. going underwater on a mortgage (unless you practice buy high sell low).
      Nov 30
    • New Pppoop
      What about the money wasted on rent? In 10 years the mortgage payment will be less than half of the rent. In 20 it will be peanuts.
      Nov 30
    • Microsoft Bywffqvdv
      Forex or options way more leverage
      Nov 30
    • Microsoft twkh55
      More risk in forex or options leveraging vs. leverage on a property and more time investment whereas real estate is true passive-income.
      Nov 30
    • Pandora tIbk87
      Tell me where you can buy a 30 year expiration option or forex contract.
      Nov 30
  • New DuQvV7x
    Food, shelter and procreation are the primary pursuits of mankind.

    Add visa issues, and you get Blind.
    Nov 304
    • Intel / Engpleb
      Don't confuse sex with procreation.
      Nov 30
    • Gen!x / Eng
      ixptl12

      Gen!xEng

      PRE
      startups, JPMorgan Chase
      BIO
      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      ixptl12more
      And don’t confuse shelter with a 4 bed, 5 bath McMansion. So what exactly is your point.
      Nov 30
    • Intel / Engpleb
      It does make sense in his logic. A lot of procreation demands a lot of food and a lot of shelter.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      You get a nice house, you get shelter and a better chance for procreation/sex.
      Dec 1
  • Pinterest adspm
    It's the "American Dream" - to have McMansion in the suburbs with a white picket fence, 2.4 kids and 0.6 pets.
    Nov 302
    • Microsoft Bywffqvdv
      It’s 2.4 kids not 1.8
      Nov 30
    • Pinterest adspm
      Thanks. Updated.
      Nov 30
  • SAP / Biz Dev
    lVgD43

    SAPBiz Dev

    BIO
    10 years @ SAP
    lVgD43more
    I could have written this! Excellent question.
    Nov 300
  • Airbnb jim.hodlen
    I think it makes more sense for people with families or thinking of starting one. would your kids have to move with you if you get a new job?
    Nov 303
    • Microsoft uss
      I moved multiple times when I was a kid and I had absolutely no problem with that.
      Nov 30
    • Airbnb jim.hodlen
      I moved multiple times when I was a kid and my commute just got worse and worse.
      Nov 30
    • Amazon / EngQGqA17
      When you buy a home then it becomes messy when you get a new job.
      Dec 2
  • Microsoft twkh55
    In previous years if you bought early you gaining money through appreciation and your housing payment was a fixed cost (outside of property tax increase) vs. rent changing depending on rental supply and demand.

    Now is not a good time as the buy vs. rent favors renting unless you need the space and have a large dog or kids and you don't want to take them to the park.
    Nov 300
  • Amazon / EngIAmJob
    Common myth: buying a house makes you stuck. It's not hard to sell a house and regain your equity. Realtor does most of the work.

    Common myth 2: stocks outperform real estate. 7% annual return on index funds. Likewise, homes appreciate around 5% in California. Except you are using a loan and put 20% down. That makes your ROI 25% excluding mortgage payment.

    Here's a thought. Buy a house, move buy a house move. Keep building equity. Ride the appreciation wave. And keep buying stock. Makes you far more diversified.
    Nov 304
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&TEng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      Wouldn’t realtor fees and the fact that all the other homes are appreciating along with your current dwelling essentially eat up any profit to speak of?

      I’m thinking buy in a slump and sell when you’re ready to move to a lower CoL area.
      Nov 30
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      You can get a cheaper seller agent and pay 3.5% commission. As long as you have had gains beyond that.

      Other homes appreciating will impact your next home as it will be more expensive. Rent would also go up though. This is equally a problem with index funds and it's not a bad problem.

      You can further hedge by buying a fixer upper and adding value to the home. This forced appreciation is not possible with stocks. Take a look at 203k loans.
      Nov 30
    • IBM gösser
      Are you subtracting mortgage interest from the home appreciation, plus a conservative opportunity cost of investing (such as a 2% savings account)?
      Nov 30
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      It's too circumstantial per market. Opportunity cost depends on rent vs mortgage, tax deductions, etc.

      I ran some numbers on biggerpockets calculator. Including mortgage, year 2 ROI is 5%. Year 5 ROI is 10%. This is assuming an upward real estate market with 5% appreciation.

      Most tech markets have far exceeded 5% btw.
      Nov 30
  • Capital One AggieDev
    The days of drawing out a mortgage for a lifetime should be done by now
    Nov 307
    • Facebook public2
      Huh, why? Do you hate money?
      Nov 30
    • Capital One AggieDev
      Lol, you either have cash in hand as you pay 2.5x the value of the house or you sacrifice short term opportunity, pay that bad boy off quick and capitalize on larger opportunities with less debt overhead.

      If I was 40-60 and buying a first house, sure pay it off slow because I’m probably not going much of anywhere with kids and prolly grand kids. But in my 20 and 30s I want to make big, drastic, risky moves that set me up for a comfy second half. So a little sacrifice now, saves a lot of wealth over the course of my life and allows me to work less over all to make more money.

      For instance, my current situation has me paying for grad school and a $370k home off in 5 years on a 2.5% 5/1 arm.

      When I get done paying it off all I need is 40k more of home value to get back all my money+ the interest I lid the bank + the selling fees when I sell. So my house works like a piggy bank.

      Then in 5 years I can’t start my own company or buy 10 homes and repeat the process since I started this one with just 30k, or become a renter or whatever. Basically, the house is now profitable and is a $400k piggy bank that grows with the property value

      All I had to choose my location wisely, which I did.

      Money isn’t everything though people.
      Nov 30
    • Facebook public2
      Your math is overly simplistic. Real estate is one of the best vehicles for wealth creation there is. Leveraged money and tax incentives make it a lucrative investment. A loan for millions can be had at 3 to 4% whereas the stock market returns 7 to 8%. You cannot think of it as paying 2.tax the value of the house, you are forgetting to include time value of money. If you had the cash to pay off a mortgage entirely it would not make sense to do so at all. Collateriazed debt is not the same as debt. In my 20s when my friends where buying cars I was buying as many houses as I could exactly so I wouldn't have to work in my 40s. Highly recommended. And yes money isnt everything but it's much easier to realize that once you have it.
      Nov 30
    • Capital One AggieDev
      You definitely can approach it my way if you don’t want to play the stock market.

      I personally am testing stock atm. However I chose to real estate instead rather than in conjunction because it’s much safer. In my situation I got my house at $330k so I gained 40k value right off the bat with a projected 50k in 5-10 years. Given everything that’s going in life, I see myself being here for 5-10 years so no big.

      But I don’t have room to come up a thousand short one month while paying for grad school. In fact, my monthly budget is maxed out on one mortgage and grad school. Once school is finished though, I’ll have 3 times the buying power I had when this all started.

      Now I could split that and buy stocks to return interest which covers the interest I pay on a second home.... or I could remove the interest completely, take my cash and buy 10 homes, out renters in them and start churning a 30-70% profit year after year.

      Stocks requires me to believe other people are going to use my money better than I can use my money and I just don’t believe that. Lol

      A case could be made for taking out a loan for grad school, but I just don’t believe in uncollateriazed debt such as school loans. Sure it helps get a job but really... I know people with 100k+ in debt that they are paying off while working retails stores with their masters degree. Not a smart move IMO
      Nov 30
    • Facebook public2
      Lol indeed, the market definately cannot beat your made up numbers that is absolutely true. Good luck!
      Nov 30
    • Capital One AggieDev
      What, am I supposed to cite sources or something? It’s observation and experience public2
      Dec 1
    • Facebook public2
      Yes, would love your source on that "30-70% yearly profit." You will be the richest person on early in no time!
      Dec 1
  • OpenTable Meliodas
    Because small places closer to work aren’t cheaper. The mortgage on a single family home in SF is about the same as what we currently pay to rent in SF.

    It is about quality of life. I don’t want to ask permission to do things and I can afford it.
    Nov 303
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Is it really though? The average price/rent ratio in SF is about 0.3, pointing at the fact that most of those properties would actually lose money if they were bought, mortgaged and rented to other people, after accounting for all expenses (maintenance, insurance, taxes, capex). It’s essentially an appreciation play.

      But by all means, if it’s a luxury one wants, it’s perfectly fine, I’m just pointing out my observations on your comment mortgage==rent
      Nov 30
    • OpenTable Meliodas
      I don’t care about averages. I care about my actual costs.
      Nov 30
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Well I’m talking about your average. Are you saying that your actual PITI (so all your house expenses, in particular mortgage, taxes and insurance) plus maintenance are on your average equal to your rent? If so, you got yourself a smoking hot deal in SF, and kudos to you.
      Nov 30
  • Google Zzyxx
    Coz past 3-4 years, everyone has been putting all they have to buy a house and then watch their house appreciate like crazy. Went very well and everyone thought they are genius as many consider housing as investment. Then came summer 2018 and let’s just say the folks who bought in April-May are not having the same genius feeing.

    Buy house to live, if buying to invest, especially in a high value market like Bay Area, be ready to digest the churn.
    Nov 302
    • Amazon / EngIAmJob
      Not a smart argument. People who bought stocks in summer 2018 also had a loss. Who cares? Why do dips matter. Long term both vehicles are good investments.
      Nov 30
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      goldbug

      LinkedInEng

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Full time coder and part time gold dealer.
      goldbugmore
      Bay Area real estate is the blue-chip of US real estate. It is IMO safer to buy in BA than in some villages in the middle of nowhere.

      Bay Area real estate didn’t crash as hard as the national average in 2008 and recovered very quickly afterwards.
      Dec 1
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      I think in my case I know I don’t want kids and my long time girlfriend is on board. So we don’t want to have a house, we have no use for it so to speak.
      Nov 30
    • Microsoft uss
      I grew up moving from place to place and it was fun experience. I still love moving to a new neighborhood or a city every 2-3 years to experience new things after I graduated from college. I don't want to be locked in the same environment for the rest of my life.
      Nov 30
  • Airbnb jim.hodlen
    are you all_in_vtsax on reddit?
    Nov 301
    • New / EngDerek last
      OP
      Haha no. I also have significant holdings in vxus and some muni bonds waiting for the next crash
      Nov 30
  • AT&T / Eng
    DDM2K

    AT&TEng

    PRE
    Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
    DDM2Kmore
    Because if you can’t afford to buy a modest house less than an hour away from where you work; why the FUCK are you even living there?
    Nov 303
    • Pandora tIbk87
      So only people with a TC of $300k+ and the cash for a down payment should work in SF?
      Nov 30
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&TEng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      You just restated the problem, with numbers.
      Nov 30
    • Pandora tIbk87
      No, I asked a question.
      Nov 30
  • Cisco randynash
    Because "housing always goes up" until it goes down and people with those smart leverage plays foreclose and lose their entire equity.

    The last recession was exactly this logic at a wider scale. This time, it'll only affect the rich overpriced houses. Bay area house prices are strongly tied to:

    1. Company stocks (declining. Nobody seriously thinks the same company stocks will keep going up forever)

    2. Highly paid Immigrants (leaving the US because we all know why)

    This story has played out in Detroit suburbs in 60s and 70s and we are none the wiser.

    Someone will be left holding the bag and that will be a brutal day. Just pray that day doesn't come in the next 30 years.
    Dec 12
    • Facebook public2
      Happy to hold the bag if anyone wants to sell me their houses!
      Dec 1
    • Microsoft twkh55
      If you want to be safe with your money, put it under your mattress.
      Dec 1
  • Capital One AggieDev
    Pay it off early and flip it.
    Nov 301
    • LinkedIn / Eng
      Gill Bates

      LinkedInEng

      BIO
      [Insert epic sax here]
      Gill Batesmore
      What's the advantage of paying the mortgage early? You can flip it even if there's a balance left on the mortgage
      Nov 30
  • Google QmTN21
    Price to rent ratio isn’t the right metric. It’s expected appreciation of Bay Area real estate vs stock market returns.
    Dec 10

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