Will you name and shame your manager and org if you're categorized as non-regrettable attrition..ie put in PIP.

T-Mobile fun)))
Aug 24 44 Comments

I was thinking there is nothing to lose. Why not expose the management for whatever goes on in the org. I have personally seen some incompetent managers and PMs who turned into managers that are bad at people skills.

Post inspired from another thread regarding PIP in FB.

TC 160 - my tc sucks and I am working on it.
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TOP 44 Comments
  • Facebook / Eng
    dividebyz

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Facebook
    dividebyzmore
    I wish there was a website/app where we could anonymously rate managers we've worked with. Like Glassdoor, but for managers.
    Aug 24 14
    • Amazon uaqh79
      At least with Amazon you’re assuming they got the paperwork in order which is a big assumption. I didn’t sign a lot of stuff...
      Aug 24
    • Facebook / Eng
      dividebyz

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      dividebyzmore
      You should be able to rate managers on a 5-point scale on different axes. If there's nothing written about the manager, little chance of defamation
      Aug 24
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      I don’t see how managers can give critical, objective feedback...but it’s defamation the other way around?
      Aug 25
    • Amazon uaqh79
      That’s the thing subjective feedback isn’t defamation
      Aug 25
    • Amazon / Eng
      weeeeeeee

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      AWS
      weeeeeeeemore
      I’ll actually look into creating a design for this and starting work. Seems like a cool project to work on
      Aug 25
  • Google / Eng batmobile
    PIPs are always the management's fault, no way the engineer did anything wrong ever 🤪
    Aug 24 7
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      Dividebyz is right..performance/engagement help should have been there long before a PIP
      Aug 25
    • Microsoft omgrly
      We are talking of the few people who end up in pip, presumably because they are resistant to feedback and change, or do not match role expectations, or both. Those people are not going to be “vast majority of engineers who don’t react negatively”. And with the best intent and effort in the world, there will be a few of those. Facebook below has it right, but that too is incomplete: the fact that they are understandably bitter does not also make them objective when talking about their work or manager.
      Aug 25
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      Idk about MS but I’ll say at Eventbrite PIPs are BS ways for managers to lower expensive SF headcount right now. It varies by company culture and some people just win the manager lottery
      Aug 25
    • Microsoft omgrly
      Fair enough; from secondhand news, amzn is also infamous for this. At Ms it is 6mo+ to remove an employee, waste of both company and individual time. The pip-ee would be much better off elsewhere with a better fit.
      Aug 25
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      Nah, more time the better esp for vesting. They can collect paychecks, be insured/have benefits while finding a job. Sort of like severance. Edit: I wasn’t pip’d but I got a written warning I didn’t agree with, which was my way of finding an exit. Resigning was better for me and my manager lol
      Aug 25
  • Facebook gEKd54
    The process leading up to getting fired is frustrating and stressful for most people and in some cases the manager cant do much.
    The process leading up to being let go usually includes: getting negative feedback repeatedly, being handed out goals you cant meet, overworking to meet the bar (and still getting negative feedback).

    It's not hard to see how someone will be bitter (especially in the lower levels, where many are quite young and never failed at anything in their lives becore)
    Aug 25 13
    • Facebook gEKd54
      OP- I think you are generalizing your personal experience using the term "most" without evidence (and it is also unlikely).

      In many companies, management doesnt pay more (e.g. fb, google) and has a higher degree of stress.

      PIP is the very last step in a long process and, unlike professors, that are completely unaffected by their shitty teachings (and neither are the universities), a bad manager that "manages out" the wrong people will have a low performing team and get managed out themselves.

      I have actually seen more cases in the past 6-9 months of managers getting moved aside than ICs getting PIPed (I'm not counting very junior people)
      Aug 25
    • T-Mobile fun)))
      OP
      I'm referring to those ICs who for career progression become managers. I can only speak from my experience and from talking to friends as I know I'll never have the right statistics, ever.
      Aug 25
    • T-Mobile fun)))
      OP
      Read tpms and principal tpms who become managers and fuck up things for a big team 😒
      Aug 25
    • Facebook gEKd54
      Yes - people that turn into managers for career progression are a real pain for everyone :(
      Aug 25
    • T-Mobile fun)))
      OP
      That's exactly why there needs to be checks and balances
      Aug 25
  • Eventbrite bihiselllo
    Of course spill everything at the exit interview (assuming you’re not joining again). I’ve found that eventually mean people end up being hated/disrespected no matter how senior they are.

    But DO NOT vent to HR, they’re on your managers side.
    Aug 24 4
    • Facebook / Eng
      dividebyz

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      dividebyzmore
      I've worked at so many companies, never had an exit interview.
      Aug 24
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      My manager at my last company was about to not give me one (cuz she knew I hated her) so I had to demand it from HR
      Aug 24
    • Airbnb DkuS72
      Who are you spilling to if not HR?
      Aug 24
    • Eventbrite bihiselllo
      Skip or some trusted ally who has influence over mgr that’s not HR
      Aug 25
  • American Express D.BCooper
    I got PIP and Amex for telling my boss it is impossible to explain technical concepts because she understands nothing. This is true and other people know it, but... I just sort of said it on the phone after she insulted me.

    Survived PIP and 'over-delivering' now.
    Aug 25 0
  • Google _fake_
    Name org - yes, manager - nope
    Aug 24 0