Working for FAANG, it's not just join and kick back

Apple apbob
Feb 13 345 Comments

I'm at a FAANG, been in them for a while.

So many people on here are fighting to work at one of them. The TC is often spectacular. The marquee name on your resume is worth its weight in gold too. But before you think it's the end-all, get a little dose of reality. You are earning that money.

Relationships are difficult to keep working for the top tier companies. Your job comes first. Always. It doesn't matter what is going on in your personal life. WIfe's family is coming to town? Kids have sporting events or getting awards at school? Piano recital? Finally got a date with that person you have always wanted? Your girlfriend having a dinner party or special event she had been planning for months for your birthday?

Sorry, something in China just blew up. United has a redeye going there tonight, run by the house and get your bag. Your wife or girlfriend doesn't understand and says to tell your management that you had previous plans this weekend and can't go. Haha. That's adorable. Not going to happen. You are going to China. That doesn't fly at FAANG.

Your friends and family will be envious of your exotic travel. Half of them don't even have passports. You fill yours and have to get extra pages. Your facebook page looks like a travel brochure. But it wears thin quickly. The resentment from home you can cut with a knife. Your kids are good sports about it all, but you feel guilty for all the stuff you missed.

On these trips, the best you can hope for is getting a couple of nice meals out. A lot of times you aren't traveling with a bunch of your bros and hitting the bars after work, you are traveling alone. The local people you work with have lives and families and go home at night. You are sitting up at midnight eating room service off the limited "night" menu, calling home to talk to the wife and kids or girlfriend. They can't completely hold back the resentment that you flake every time they make plans.

I think there is a lot of holy grail talk about working for a FAANG, but you have to accept that you are going to be putting the job in front of everything else in your life. I can give you a whole litany of things I've missed because I had to take a trip last-minute or right before a major release on an impossible timeline and everyone is working super late every night. You get home and just turn on the computer again. You go to work, and it's dark, and you come home, and it's dark.

Everyone thinks they can step up and run at that level and will swear up and down they can live like that, but it's a lot harder than you think. There will be lots of people that say "Oh, it's not like that for me" but if you are ascending through the ranks, these are the tradeoffs you need to make

I was on the road traveling or in the office working 25 weekends last year. The only downtime I get is those 13 hours flights when I can disconnect and watch mindless movies.

I have no intention of going anywhere, but I'm just sharing that it's not for everyone, even those that think they can hang at that level. Some people thrive in it. Some people get burned out. Plenty of divorces at work and a few substance abuse issues and people that after 3 or 4 years look like they have aged 10. Lots say they will do it for a few years and quit. Then you have kids. Price out college lately? Want to own a home in a good school district in the bay area? You aren't quitting any time soon.

Go for it if that is what you want, but go in eyes wide open and think about what you will trade for money.

TC: $625k

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TOP 345 Comments
  • Google VVGo72
    You just don't know how to balance work and life! I have an average of 40 hour weeks and relatively successful in terms of career progression. That is the balance I chose and I don't complain about it.

    TC: 450k
    Feb 13 14
    • Amazon UUVv22
      As someone with over 10 years of experience in various companies I find it no better or worse. I don’t work overtime and neither does any of my teammates. Mostly no one is around until 11:00 am in the morning and pretty much everyone’s gone by 6. As long as you are getting the work done no one really cares how much time you spend I the office.
      Feb 14
    • Nvidia 利用
      I am not in FAANG, but it's the same in NVIDIA, as the OP described. @UUVv22 Getting your work done timely is actually dangerous in NVIDIA. It sets up the expectations higher and higher, until you work 80 hours a week to get the work done. The only way to survive is to hide improvements in the work process you have implemented, offload your work to others as much as you can, and keep your nose brown.
      Feb 14
    • Gap oMQg68
      I don't completely understand why you are doing what you do if you know that you are missing on all those important moments of your family's life.. take a pay cut and work 40 hours a week.. what you've lost so far is much more expensive that what you are getting
      Feb 14
    • Amazon .,..,
      @UUVv22 does your team need a new PM? Also being at Amazon, do you get worried about the scope of your team while rest of the company is running around like chickens with their heads cut off? For me, I get stressed out when I actually have time to breathe because I’m so used to the opposite.
      Feb 14
    • Uber / R&D jidao
      Agree it's FANG, Amazon has nothing to do in that group
      Feb 14
    • Amazon / Ops Puffalope
      Lmao says the person at Uber.

      @jidao
      Feb 14
    • Uber / R&D jidao
      Well unlike you I know my place. I'm not pretending being a tier 1 company when I work for a tier 2...
      Feb 15
    • Amazon / Ops Puffalope
      @jidao lol.
      As far as I know, FAANG is an acronym for large cap tech companies. That’s the only definition that matters because it affects stock prices and therefore my TC. But I’ll be sure to let investors know that Blind users feel differently.
      Feb 15
    • Uber / R&D jidao
      Thank you
      Feb 15
    • Uber / R&D jidao
      It's important they know how we, blind users, feel
      Feb 15
  • Microsoft / Eng pvdhjcb
    It's not like you're at Facebook or Google, it's just Apple.
    Feb 13 13
    • New / Eng jo2305
      If your TC is 625k you can afford any car you want
      Feb 14
    • Apple pays similar to FG and has hardware products that are much better than what FG put out. I don’t get why Mr Microsoft is being so condescending about it. Must be one of the kids running after prestige
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft / Eng pvdhjcb
      Shitty company. Duh.
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft TheAnonBoy
      Wtf, how is Apple a shitty company? FB and G don't own the top tier.
      Feb 14
    • Google uYhx7
      I'd consider Apple top tier as well. Microsoft on the other hand? Eh. Wouldn't know they're still relevant if it weren't for all the Microsofties desperately trying to tell everyone.
      Feb 15
    • Apple / Eng
      iHateFruit

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Apple
      iHateFruitmore
      Apple doesn’t care for its employees. Can confirm
      Feb 15
    • Microsoft TheAnonBoy
      How so?
      Feb 15
    • Apple / Eng
      iHateFruit

      Apple Eng

      PRE
      Apple
      iHateFruitmore
      Working weekends around WWDC and September release is expected.

      Benefits are not great.
      Feb 15
    • Microsoft / Eng pvdhjcb
      Have worked for both.
      Feb 15
    • Microsoft IIeT35
      Microsoft isn’t relevant at all! Their market cap is shit! Doesn’t compare at all to GOOgLe!
      Feb 17
  • Oracle / Eng HushPuppy
    Why don't you quit??
    Feb 13 4
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Because I'm a masochist who thrives in chaos and pressure. I think I'm just feeling a little melancholy tonight reflecting while reading all of these "how do I get into FAANG" posts here. By all means, go for it, but think carefully about what job you want and what you are willing to trade.
      Feb 13
    • Shopify / Mgmt
      i28hriwjah

      Shopify Mgmt

      PRE
      Apple
      i28hriwjahmore
      Because these companies hire people with self esteem issues who have something to prove and don't tell their bosses to shove it.
      Feb 14
    • Facebook execvp
      At least you know yourself...
      Feb 15
    • Google YCloud
      I think there may be some unconscious bias at work here OP. it is not all dark/lonely/chaotic/guilt for everyone in the FAANGs, although I felt plenty in my younger days.. I work weekends a lot too and feel constant pressure to perform. However, I still manage to have a pretty good life.. and yes I’ve got kids ranging ages 10-20 y.o. + a big fat mortgage too. If you can’t achieve a good balance, you either have a shit manager, poor planning skills, a shit remit, or a combination of things u can change. Good luck folks. Try to reconfigure and redesign your life. Your kids won’t be small again! TC 450k
      Feb 15
  • Morgan Stanley death&taxe
    With 625 TC id retire after 5 years
    Feb 13 13
    • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
      @Google That still makes you a millionaire after five years. If you can live somewhere on $40k/year you can arguably retire whenever you want to after that.
      Feb 14
    • Chase OjDg47
      Some people don’t live with a FIRE mindset
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft / Ops
      Grumpy PM

      Microsoft Ops

      BIO
      Axe yo momma
      Grumpy PMmore
      Not anywhere desirable
      Feb 14
    • Google xUcq82
      Yes. You mean people that want to get laid and maybe have a kid.
      Feb 14
    • New / Eng AussieSWE
      He will have to or burn out mentally and physically. I left FANG for that very reason.
      Feb 14
    • Google / Eng Mr Glass
      $1m isn't enough to sustain a similar lifestyle. You need to save for kids college, increasing medical bills (remember, no employer sponsored insurance after retirement), higher travel budget, cost of housing in good school district, etc. Remember your expense will go up as you age. You'll want a comfortable car, decent house, and enjoy finer things in life. You'd need $5m at the very least and $8m to be comfortable. That would mean a withdrawal of $400k a year.
      Feb 14
    • Intuit tgfi
      It’s all choices, leave the Bay and the math changes. Car etc. those are priorities. Maybe not 5 but at 8-10 years with likely salary growth and maybe a second income? It depends on what you want to prioritize. He can absolutely retire from his current job and get something else that keeps the bills paid while not dropping $2M on a house.
      Feb 14
    • Morgan Stanley hotChicken
      Tbh, I agree with my Morgan Stanley friend up there. If you save 250k per year for 5 years and your wife does the same, you can go back to India and live like a god.
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft yubxsv
      Morgan Stanley, do you mean saving 250k per annum as a couple or saving 500k per annum as a couple?
      Feb 14
    • Morgan Stanley hotChicken
      500k. 250k each
      Feb 15
  • Microsoft blind1186
    Why so much of travel? Sales/Marketing?
    Feb 13 6
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Hardware.
      Feb 13
    • Amazon goal earl
      So it not about FAANG, it’s about your job and ability to balance work and life. Don’t generalize – your life suck, not everyone else’s
      Feb 14
    • Salesforce CloudSurfr
      Don't be a jerk goal...he didn't say any of that. You did. He just said think about these things.👌🙄
      Feb 14
    • Splunk smiley 😀
      But barely anyone in software flies to China at the last minute. I've known people at small start ups in hardware that they fly to SE Asia all the time. This isn't about FAANG, this is about working hardware in a world where all of the plants are a 12 hour flight away.
      Feb 14
    • Salesforce AkOj58
      Last week I was at Amazon and I asked about wlb, 4 interviewers said they usually work 40 hrs/week but it 70 hours/week happens sometimes. Amazon is fucked up too, as far as I heard
      Feb 14
    • Splunk KE94107
      Ah, the old days: when I worked on hardware projects, the factory floor was a stairwell away.
      Feb 15
  • Facebook public2
    Incorrect but sorry that has been your experience. Luckily with 625k/year you will be able to retire soon at least.
    Feb 13 12
    • Airbnb xfeftr
      120k a year post-tax is not remotely challenging outside of a few American cities
      Feb 14
    • Google YAPTRF
      Send your kids out of state is not 100k/year. More like 50k/year.

      120k post tax out of state is totally doable. Go move to Colorado
      Feb 14
    • Facebook public2
      120k at a lower tax rate as well.
      Feb 14
    • Salesforce CloudSurfr
      He's talking about $120k in SF...KEEP UP
      Feb 14
    • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
      who would try to retire early and also stay in SF??
      Feb 14
    • Uber djcxjsg
      Who would honestly retire in SF
      Feb 14
    • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
      If you're set on retiring at 67 or whatever, yeah you can probably retire in SF. Buy a house early on, probably. But a FIRE person should get the hell out when they retire. Accumulate in HCOL, retire in LCOL
      Feb 14
    • Salesforce CloudSurfr
      " You drop close to $2M for a home because you have a wife and kids and you want your kids to go to a good school district." Agreed, the most financially expedient thing would be to leave the bay area. But that's the context he gave.
      Feb 14
    • Move / Eng
      rbevdjwnd

      Move Eng

      BIO
      Heuaheuahuehauehaysuha
      rbevdjwndmore
      One of my former bosses semi retired in SF. No idea how. Has an amazing house and automated the shit out of it though lol
      Feb 14
    • Facebook public2
      Bay area retiree here. Love the area and it's where most of my family and friends are.
      Feb 14
  • AppDynamics jobhunt1ng
    What’s your role?
    Feb 13 4
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Without disclosing too much, senior hardware role.
      Feb 13
    • Square inhtsxvbhg
      That’s the difference. The vast majority of people on Blind are software not hardware. My company has roles like that too (as far as I understand), but it’s still very rare to be the person that’s so tied to production that you’d need to fly to China. Personally, my worst case scenario is I open my laptop at home, fix a bug that slipped through some how, and deploy off master to prod.
      Feb 14
    • Amazon dROL65
      Plus one, hw not equal to sw. And a in famg is for Amazon 😂
      Feb 14
    • Twitter / Eng
      EditTweet

      Twitter Eng

      BIO
      Definitely Jack Dorsey
      EditTweetmore
      The software people in Apple seem to kick back. So many things are ignored and there are so many obvious bugs Apple doesn’t give a shit about.
      Feb 15
  • Intel TrumpGod
    Yet you probably don't have a single first author publication in your whole life.

    Work so hard for engineering efforts but you have added 0.00 knowledge to the theory of computing.

    What a farce.
    Feb 14 9
    • Amazon dollabills
      Lol relax TrumpGod, you work at intel and couldn’t pass a fang interview even with all 3 of your “publications” intel paid for
      Feb 14
    • Intel TrumpGod
      I had an offer for Google. They dont ask people with PhDs the same questions they ask you. For us, it is about giving a research talk, not solving idiotic problems using a KD tree on a white board.

      I went to Intel because I can work directly with the USG customers I worked with at Argonne National Labs.

      You'll never get there.
      Feb 14
    • Amazon dollabills
      I’ll never get to intel ? Lol yeah you’re right
      Feb 14
    • Intel TrumpGod
      You'll never be a researcher.
      Feb 14
    • Amazon / R&D ATTE75
      Arrogance and stupidity always come in tge same package with Trump ;)
      Feb 14
    • Apple no signal
      Being a first author on a pub doesn’t mean shit, you really need to take a chill pill.
      Feb 14
    • Intel TrumpGod
      It means a lot more than implementing things people wrote about in papers ;-)

      That is all you do.
      Feb 14
    • Apple no signal
      Done both, sounds like you haven’t
      Feb 14
    • Airbnb / Eng hr_machine
      Obvious troll yall, please exit thread
      Feb 14
  • Deloitte chillgal
    Hold my beer, OP. I am a management consultant. Travel every week to client site and the W Times Square checkin lady always greets me with “welcome back home”. I had slept maybe 30 nights in my own bed last year 😊
    Feb 14 5
    • Intel sales_bro
      Bonvoy plat!
      Feb 14
    • Deloitte chillgal
      Yes indeed. Lifetime platinum to be precise 😊
      Feb 14
    • New CiOI38
      chillgal Is right on there. I had years at Big 4 where I flew 50 weeks a year, only home Friday - Sun.
      Feb 14
    • Salesforce ziLA83
      20 years in consulting, lived that life. Didn’t even get the 650. Settled for 300 and a couple of divorces.

      Have my consulting “pension” of lifetime AA plat and Bonvoy Titanium.

      This story isn’t a FAANG thing, it’s a shitty work life balance/job thing.

      I know lots of FAANG that don’t travel very much at D+ levels.
      Feb 14
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Yes, for all the disbelief at this lifestyle, I don't hold a candle to what management consultants and IB friends do.

      I have a McKinsey friend that does the 50 weeks of travel a year. She says that just driving past SFO makes her feel violently ill. Most people would think this was an exaggeration but with her I think she is serious.

      @chillgal - that Times Square W is much better than the one on Lexington (Midtown?) but I like the downtown (Wall Street) one too. Midtown is tiny even with plat upgrades! Don't they have a good bar in the W at TS?
      Feb 19
  • Facebook sum42pwd
    Replying from a flight right now, had a hotel dinner at 11pm last night, miss my family, my mum noticed that I’m getting a lot of grey hairs and I’m not even 35.

    That said, the opportunities are great, never thought I’d make this much from a job (still below $500k), and I could always switch roles or teams to a less travel heavy one if it was truly wearing me down.

    Appreciate you sharing your perspective though.
    Feb 13 5
    • Oracle not_larry
      What role?
      Feb 13
    • Facebook sum42pwd
      One of the non SWE engineering roles, so I have to do client stuff in different regions.
      Feb 13
    • Cerner / Eng
      icecup

      Cerner Eng

      PRE
      Cerner Corporation
      BIO
      software engineer
      icecupmore
      Grey hair is not caused by stress or any other emotional issue.
      Feb 14
    • Facebook sum42pwd
      @Cerner I read that recently too actually; I guess it’s just genes
      Feb 14
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Try to tell your mom it's not stress-related! She knows better.
      Feb 19
  • Google Mmkaay
    And please don’t expect that other at lower tier companies are cruising. Many work as hard for around $100k TC
    Feb 14 0
  • Uber / Eng nYf6sJ
    "I work at FANG" - amazon
    "I work at FAANG" - apple
    "I work at <somewhere else>" - other people
    Feb 14 5
    • Google / Eng
      LeeJaeDong

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      LeeJaeDongmore
      “I want to work at FAANG” - Microsoft
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft / Eng pvdhjcb
      Wrong
      Feb 14
    • Amazon / Eng bananas69
      I like FUBAR - Facebook Uber Bain Apple Redfin
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft Girlfriend
      It’s actually FAAMG, and I used to work for apple. You couldn’t pay me enough to work at the giant safe space for sjw’s google has become. It’s a literal daycare. Wah wah, we’re going to walk out bc our feelings are hurt over some new bullshit that literally doesn’t matter, today.
      Feb 14
    • BCG Anon778
      ^This is so dumb just felt that it needed to be explicitly acknowledged
      Feb 15
  • Airbnb xfeftr
    This is not the norm in FAANG. You just have a shitty job.
    Feb 14 0
  • Facebook nickiminaj
    There’s a difference between FANG and FAANG
    Feb 14 6
    • Google Mmkaay
      Amazon is surely worse than Apple
      Feb 14
    • Amazon UUVv22
      Amazon at L6 and above is probably the best company amongst all of FANG. L4 and L5 - maybe not.
      Feb 14
    • Google Mmkaay
      ^ Thanks for the laugh 😂
      Feb 14
    • Lyft TEHm35
      Amazon folks always deluded ...
      Feb 14
    • Amazon / Eng
      onMyWay

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      AWS
      onMyWaymore
      Maybe in terms of doing something that benefits the general population. Probably not for comp though.
      Feb 14
    • Google fre t
      Yeah suuuure
      Feb 14
  • Google PgM1
    Doesnt sound like a SWE role, they dont travel that much, are you in Sales or deployment? 600k+ is pretty high for non-SWE though, so congrats on that.
    Feb 13 5
    • Oracle
      lalalalal

      Oracle

      PRE
      Google, Facebook, Instacart, Twitter, Uber, Air Asia, IBM, Cisco
      lalalalalmore
      He probably hand-delivers emergency bribes to corrupt officials in China. ;)
      Feb 13
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Ha, no. Hardware related. Build some factories here already, please. If you have ever dealt with Chinese manufacturing you will understand why you have to watch the stuff like a hawk.

      But hey, you can only legally be in China 90 days a year before you can't go, so there is that.
      Feb 13
    • Magic Leap pipl
      I heard there’s not enough factory-related engineering talent to build factories here. The manufacturing labor class is super rusted and behind in skills; America’s powered by class inequality, immigrant scientists, H1B engineers, and finance bros
      Feb 14
    • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
      @OP aha, then go to China on vacation as much as possible to burn through the 90 days ;) Take the family with you too, it'll be fun!
      Feb 14
    • Not exactly true, you can exceed 90 days but then you (or actually your employer) will have to pay Chinese taxes on your US income. Actually the threshold is 183 days if you’re from a country that has a tax treaty with China, which the US does.
      Feb 14
  • Oracle
    lalalalal

    Oracle

    PRE
    Google, Facebook, Instacart, Twitter, Uber, Air Asia, IBM, Cisco
    lalalalalmore
    Why do you need to physically fly to China in order to fix some software issue? Sounds so 1998....
    Feb 13 2
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Nobody said software, my friend.
      Feb 13
    • Apple julB03
      Indeed I think HW has it bad at Apple because of all the flights. I know plenty of wayyyy lower level / paid HW engineers who are going to Shenzhen all the time.
      Feb 14
  • Cisco hkkbfedvh
    Cry me a river....$625k....you better earn that shit
    Feb 14 0
  • Looks like everyone has problems. Person who makes $60k has problems, the person who makes $450k has problems. I used to be happier when I made nothing!! Just wondering how I can be happy again, making nothing!
    Feb 14 1
    • LinkedIn opfx46
      Its the rat race, always has been, just dressed up in modern day contexts
      Feb 15
  • Netflix vUhw26
    Not all faang jobs suck like yours
    Feb 14 2
    • Cisco ABGslayer
      Lmfao
      Feb 14
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      I don’t know, I’ve heard some horror stories from Netflix. Amazing comp but cutthroat environment. True?
      Feb 15
  • Microsoft SmallTanks
    As someone who’s worked at Apple, Google, and now Microsoft that’s actually just Apple’s culture brah. Microsoft and Google are not like that at all.
    Feb 14 0
  • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
    Apple hardware role is *not* representative of FAANG. What you described (constant travel) is an outlier. Majority of FAANG engineers work on software stuff.
    Feb 14 2
    • Twitter Rdf34
      Exactly. Interesting read, but very self centered.
      Feb 14
    • Marvell 8gu
      Dude. How about you guys show some sympathy. OP already mentioned they were melancholic. Maybe they’re depressed.
      Feb 14
  • Google GodAtGoogl
    There is no place like home and no bed out there more comfy then the arms of the one you love. I would not give up that for any number of millions in money. You will never be younger then you are today, your kids childhood is not coming back and time in general is the most precious thing in life. If you can't achieve a work life balance in your job just take a job where you can. You seem quite capable from your TC at Apple. You and your family doesn't deserve to suffer. F**k TC. Money isn't going to buy you time. Someone asked Charlie Munger what can he do to be like him and he replied that he will pay Billions to get a chance to be like him i.e younger. Value and spend your time wisely otherwise somebody else will piss it away for you.
    Feb 14 0
  • Google EKAB20
    This is unlike Google. There's a good work life balance, and your well being and personal life is respected.
    Feb 14 3
    • Microsoft VrDI01
      Yeah, seriously. Idk who came up with idea of using FAANG, originally an economic term, as a way to lump all of these companies together, but in terms of working there, you are looking at 5 different companies, each with their own culture and set of values, You just can’t lump them all together.
      Feb 14
    • Google EKAB20
      Totally agree!
      Feb 14
    • Oracle / R&D lHEA77
      Something doesn't sit well with me about calling it an "economic term". Makes it sound like it's some theoretical or mathematical concept in economics, but actually it's just a buzzword random talking heads on TV made up and it means nothing
      Feb 14
  • Google / Eng Bluths
    Doesn’t sound like the job I have. Are you sure it’s not just you? You are the one making choices to prioritize your work over life. It’s your choice to make, but don’t rant about it.
    Feb 13 3
    • Salesforce CloudSurfr
      And that's the whole point of his post, it's the choice he made and now he's telling others to think about this. So he's helping people think ahead...what was the point of this post?
      Feb 14
    • Glassdoor psz
      Can't believe this guy (bluths) works at Google, probably he's in sales
      Feb 14
    • Google / Eng Bluths
      All opinions from Glassdoor are entirely irrelevant since they are bought and paid for
      Feb 14
  • Oracle not_larry
    Op doesn’t want the competition. Discouraging Blinders from getting into FANG. Wants all that sweet TC for herself. Nice try.
    Feb 13 2
    • Oracle
      lalalalal

      Oracle

      PRE
      Google, Facebook, Instacart, Twitter, Uber, Air Asia, IBM, Cisco
      lalalalalmore
      My boss likes to entertain his subordinates with horror stories about miserable life @FAANG.
      Feb 13
    • Oracle not_larry
      Heh
      Feb 13
  • Microsoft BlueScreen
    Missing a family event on a rare occasion is one thing. If you are constantly having to apologize for missing family events, then you need to rethink your priorities. If TC, the company on your resume, and your social status are what’s important to you, then you will wake up one day, your kids will be gone, and you will hate yourself for missing those events and memories. Great. You have money. Make sure it’s taking care of your depression meds and therapy.
    Feb 14 0
  • Yeah fuck all this I love my new company
    Feb 13 1
  • American Express / Eng
    GoJava

    American Express Eng

    PRE
    JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America
    GoJavamore
    OP do you come from a rich family. Asking so that I can pigeonhole you based on my pre-conceived notions about you and say "that explains it".
    What's stopping you from dialing down. Don't want to dial down, work few more years, save, move to lower col city. Don't buy a 2mn house. Ever heard of staying within your means. I've moved from 60k per year to 260k per year in my career and my lifestyle is pretty much the same as it was when I made 60k. I was in a relationship for 6 years living with a partner, who had 2 kids, and it went up slightly more more but not much. Much thanks to having a partner who was frugal as well and thanks to me too for choosing such partner. Why are your needs inflating based on how much you make? I guess it really comes down to the choices you are making - big ones are house you buy, cars you buy, where you shop and how many times, same thing with food and kids education - public or private.
    Feb 14 0
  • Netflix Johnny5
    Not my experience at all. Family always comes first and I run my team that way. Like anywhere, it all depends on the team you are on and the leadership in your org. I have had to go on plenty of trips and have missed a few things, but I’m simply not going on a trip if it means I miss my kids birthday and I don’t expect anyone else on my team to make that sacrifice.

    Over 10 years at FAANG
    TC 500k
    Feb 15 6
    • Microsoft bomba355
      If only OP and other folks had leadership as understanding as you. It is a rarity in some places.
      Feb 15
    • My manager loses 20 vacation days a year. And expects his team to do as well. Works through holidays and thinks others should/do as well. Emails at 2-3 am regularly. Is captain SAP. Except he’s a shitty manager.
      Feb 15
    • Airbnb xfeftr
      This is the norm here.
      Feb 15
    • Google / Eng
      crashdump

      Google Eng

      BIO
      35 years in tech.
      crashdumpmore
      I have to remind my team to take vacation. I had to remind one to not take it as vacation when they have doctor appointments (we have unlimited sick days and a doctor appt counts).
      Feb 16
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      I've been maxed out on my vacation for years - maybe 4 years? My leadership is good about letting me cut corners after a trip or release and disappear for a while off the books but yeah, it's stupid to throw away those vacation days and we have a weird policy about how much you can cash out each year.
      Feb 19
    • Yelp AE45Fyr
      @xfeftr are you saying the norm is what Johnny5 posted, or ETzS5676? It is a bit hard to tell with the limited threading.
      Feb 20
  • Facebook bookfacer
    OP is obviously describing a hardware/manufacturing role, not software. Don't take the experience of one role to generalize -- you should be b*itching about your role not your company.

    As a SWE i have a similar TC but pretty good WLB and only occasional travel.

    The one upside about those travel heavy jobs is you get tons of airline:hotel points and can take the family on nice vacations for nearly free to make up for it.
    Feb 15 3
    • Humana goldN
      I have done travel for work (not with FAANG) extensively. Trust me all of that (swanky rooms, hotel and airline miles,etc) gets old really fast.
      Feb 15
    • Amazon / Eng
      eisenhwr

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Google
      eisenhwrmore
      My first job was as a "jack of all trades engineer" at a Motorola contractor. Got status at plenty of airlines, and shared a ADU with a friend because I wouldn't be at home most of the week anyway.

      It was great. Apart from a small rent and laundry, I spent almost nothing and profited miles. But I was young and single. And that makes all the difference.
      Feb 15
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Ha - yes, so many miles. A million on united, million on Delta, 600k on American, 2mm on amex, 500k on chase, million on spg. At least the family vacations are free and anytime the family members need to go somewhere, I'm happy to cover it.

      It's no joke as I'm sure you know - I've woke up in some random hotel room, they almost all are alike, and for the first few second you are thinking "where am I? What city is this?"
      Feb 15
  • New TiredAF
    This is not the first time I’ve heard someone at Apple say that they have been asked to prioritize work over family. Another person had to cancel going to an immediate family members wedding to work on an issue. Seems like it’s an Apple-only work culture issue.
    Feb 13 0
  • Most people who want to get into FAANG really just want to get into G. G is known for their rest and vest culture. FAAN makes you earn every penny. One of the reasons why G lowballs like crazy these days.
    Feb 14 3
    • Amazon / Eng cayde
      Google is king. I'd like to work there at some point in my career.
      Feb 14
    • Google Mmkaay
      While Google has good wlb, we don’t rest and vest. That’s Microsoft and not all of it.

      I was in Azure and burned out at some point
      Feb 14
    • Twitter Rdf34
      G lowballs? Btw I hate that rest and vest term. Nobody rests, this is shaming for people who work normal hours.
      Feb 14
  • AppDynamics jobhunt1ng
    I’m sure there’s plenty of people who work at faang and work less than 40 hrs a week.
    Feb 13 3
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Not that I know or at least not the ones that are in senior roles. You have to be obsessive.
      Feb 13
    • Facebook / Eng E12
      Wrong - I’m very senior at FB at work 35 hours a week. I know a lot of others in the rest and best club. But you’re right that it’s more likely the senior ics and leaders are the obsessive workaholic types. But some of us are lazy who just happened to built and ship awesome shit.
      Feb 14
    • Northrop Grumman / Eng
      CzrI13

      Northrop Grumman Eng

      BIO
      Recent graduate engineer
      CzrI13more
      Any chance you could share what you've built? I feel like outside of designing tools themselves it's very hard to distinguish your product cause design standards and best practices yield such consistently high quality user experiences nowadays
      Feb 14
  • Google hwgal
    Can confirm Google hardware is like this but maybe 2 months out of a year. Maybe 4-5 for execs. But the rest of the m? Even embedded SWEs at Google can do 9-5 and be L6 with good ratings (while working with the EEs flying to China). So OP, please get out of your bubble. Your situation is hardly representative of everyone else.
    Feb 14 2
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Pretty sure I stated that this is in the same experience for everybody, and Google doesn’t put out nearly the hardware that Appel does nor have the scope or income from hardware.

      i’m sure we both know many top software engineers that bust their butts constantly to turn out top product. I get on airplanes more than most people, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t ripping just because they don’t go to the airport.

      Most of those people could never hang doing what I do, nor could I do what they do. There are lots of different experiences at these companies, but plenty of people like myself that try to take it to the next level.
      Feb 15
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Sorry, meant to say this isn’t the same experience for everyone of course. My point to the message was to be absolutely clear about what you are signing up for and don’t just jump into an opportunity to be in a marquee name company without fully grasping what you are exchanging. Because at the end of the day, we are trading things in our personal life for a paycheck. Not everybody is willing to trade the same things.
      Feb 15
  • Dropbox / Eng 100k🔗🐼
    It’s because you work for Apple hardware. My ex did the same. He was on the Mac diagnostics team and had to work Saturdays in China and his stomach would get upset from eating bad factory food. Software engineering at Amazon is rough, too, especially with on call but it’s not as bad as Apple. It’s more because at Amazon you get shitty asshole coworkers. F and G are nothing like that. I don’t know anyone from Netflix.
    Feb 14 4
    • Nutanix / Eng
      rnYm25

      Nutanix Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      rnYm25more
      How is wlb at Dropbox?
      Feb 14
    • Dropbox / Eng 100k🔗🐼
      I haven’t been here long seems like it’s good. People work from home a lot and today office became ghost town after 5 because of Valentine’s day. People work hard during the day and meetings are super serious here like back to back sometimes but it’s not anything crazy like you can’t leave to go home on time.
      Feb 15
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      I've only heard good things about Dropbox, congrats on the new gig!
      Feb 15
    • Google YCloud
      Plenty of assholes in Google Cloud too! they came from amazon, VMware, dell.. lol
      Feb 15
  • Amazon PjRK14
    Delayed gratification. With this TC you can easily afford yourself early retirement.
    Feb 15 3
    • Indeed / Other
      unikorn

      Indeed Other

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Nope
      unikornmore
      Retire early with a marriage in shambles or divorce and kids who don't know you... That retirement sounds grrrrreat.
      Feb 15
    • Amazon / Eng A-Z
      I have colleagues that put their lives on hold, including waiting so long to get married, leaving few options.

      Someone at work just got married over lunch to a random person that he/she met online.
      Feb 15
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Believe me, we have many talks at home about what the endpoint is in all of this. How much longer do we want to do it and where do we want to end up? Having some sort of game plan makes everything a lot more palatable.
      Feb 15
  • Amazon / Eng cayde
    At 625, I'm not surprised that you have serious work commitments.

    TC 180-200. SDE II. But your post does sound exactly like the reasons that might keep me from pursuing a principal role someday.

    Although, I've never seen a principal on an on-call rotation.
    Feb 14 1
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Not an on-call situation, just a part of a product that is under my watch and when things are going sideways and you aren't getting the right local attention, you head to SFO. It's not all the time, but it's often at undesired times and your family or social life takes the hit. I have a few of those times where I can feel cray tension all through my back from the stress.

      Like I said earlier, if that's what you want, by all means, go for it, just go in eyes wide open that you are going to earn that comp.

      I knew that posting my TC was going to raise eyebrows but I'm just trying to show some of the tradeoffs you make in some roles to get to that level.

      Lot of people at FAANG can roll happily at a TC of $300k or $350k Once you want to go higher than that, the cuts into your personal life get deeper or you are a true rock star at what you do can you are one of a kind that they will pay for. You are a product and they are paying you _just enough_ to keep you from quitting. 350k is still a boatload of cash by US standards and you can order liquor off the upper shelves and order extra cheese on everything.

      Your life doesn't get exponentially better once you cross some threshold ($150k maybe? I"m sure there is a number). If you can have the life you want at the comp you are making, you don't need to kill yourself.
      Feb 19
  • Qventus theskibum
    The original poster works for apple and is probably either a hardware engineer or a Program Manager. The lifestyle of one at a hardware company is usually like that regardless of whether it is a FAANG company or not.
    Feb 14 0
  • Fitbit tlead1010
    That's how hardware is. Most of us are in software mate.
    Feb 14 0
  • Idk why people call this person a liar. Depending on where you are on the org chart and how dedicated you are. You could be working from the time you wake to the time you sleep.

    I know a person at SAP who works like that and devotes the weekends to his family. In by 915am out by 8pm most nights. If there is travel he goes. Sole breadwinner, greatest coworker I’ve ever had, great person all around. Some of these jobs can be demanding.
    Feb 15 2
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      It’s just the same person that seems to think I’m not telling the truth. It’s hardly a glamorous life I’m pitching, not sure why I would lie about that. I enjoy what I do or else I wouldn’t do it, there are just times on the road that I can feel incredibly guilty and times that the folks at home don’t appreciate my schedule. It’s not always crazy last minute travel, but it happened.
      Feb 15
    • It’s understandable. Even unexpected travel once or twice a year with kids and a family can mean missing an important event. These high TC jobs do come at a cost, they’re not paying high TC because your keeping a seat warm. Your expected to deliver something of value one way or another.
      Feb 15
  • Facebook / Eng wTPk48
    At 625 TC, it sounds like you chose this job. I stopped at terminal level and am comfy. I have worked way harder at all of my other jobs
    Feb 14 1
    • New Duwop
      So is L6 and above basically guaranteed to have shit work life balance?
      Feb 14
  • Amazon jefe_bezos
    400 TC. 30-40 hours a week. No oncall. I take off whenever I want. If you’re productive while you’re in the office, there’s no need to pull hero work unless you’re fighting for the final promo push (~6 months).
    Feb 14 0
  • Amazon UUVv22
    FAANG != FANG. Apple is just an 80s corporate behemoth
    Feb 14 0
  • Google nlxS44
    I can believe that for an Apple hardware role.
    Feb 13 0
  • This is not new or specific to FANG. Grass is always greener on the other side. Consulting, big 4, advisory, any top tier company demands this. At $600K+, why would you expect anything less. I dont mind getting out of family commitments from time to time lol
    Feb 14 2
    • Intuit b7x1s
      Yeah your kids could end up resentful if you’re never around to support them.
      Feb 14
    • Gotta learn to balance
      Feb 14
  • McKinsey
    x1carbon85

    McKinsey

    PRE
    eBay
    x1carbon85more
    OP clearly never worked in consulting :)
    Feb 14 2
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      Ha - yes you guys laugh at my easy life in comparison!
      Feb 15
    • Alibaba
      mianygfs

      Alibaba

      BIO
      Why should anyone put a bio on blind? Who is your product guy?
      mianygfsmore
      Is the TC higher in consulting?
      Feb 15
  • New / Eng
    NQhf37

    New Eng

    PRE
    Google
    NQhf37more
    Family comes before your faangs. If you can't afford it, well ...

    Tc: sufficient
    Feb 14 1
    • Situations are different for every family. If you’re sole breadwinner. Kids approaching college age etc. sometimes the money is impossible to pass up.

      I do agree with the sentiment that on your death bed the last thing you will regret is not working enough.

      But the last thing you think about while living is your death bed regrets.
      Feb 14
  • Ericsson / Eng rawr🙈🙉
    Touching post OP. I come from a family of workaholics and I definitely remember it growing up. We had all the toys, but never a lot of the time. Stay Strong.
    Feb 14 0
  • Capital One 10347374
    Would still rather be working 14 hours a day at faang than be somewhere non faang and making low tc with generally crappy people
    Feb 14 5
    • Atlassian / Eng
      Luffy, M.D

      Atlassian Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      BIO
      A prematurely grumpy somewhat old man
      Luffy, M.Dmore
      Techical skills and being good people to work with don't always go together. FB had a very high technical bar and a very poor asshole filter.
      Feb 14
    • Capital One 10347374
      Asshole people >>> crappy engineers
      Feb 14
    • Atlassian / Eng
      Luffy, M.D

      Atlassian Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      BIO
      A prematurely grumpy somewhat old man
      Luffy, M.Dmore
      Having worked in both, I would disagree, but it's very much subjective.
      Feb 14
    • Cisco ABGslayer
      Good thing cap one wants to interview me lol
      Feb 14
    • Capital One lXHv58
      Not OP but C1, it really depends on your team, and some locations have more undesirable teams. NY is mostly okay if you steer clear of some data work
      Feb 15
  • Microsoft Fl@$h
    Hahahaha this is only @ Apple... I was there some time ago and after the 3rd trip to China within my first 6 months I decided to leave. MSFT pays me just as much (base), RSUs are decent but I don’t have to compromise my personal hapiness for an extra $100k in RSUs, which vest in 4 years. Move on or stop complaining
    Feb 14 4
    • Microsoft bomba355
      It's possible that OPs time demands at Apple make it difficult to squeeze in interview prep into his schedule. OP if your financial situation permits, maybe you can take a sabbatical prep for interviews and jump ship. At your level at Apple, I don't think you'll have trouble landing something new even if you take time off.
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft Fl@$h
      The first thing OP needs to do is to decide to quit and search for new opportunities. Then he can take 1week vacation for prepping and then sick days for onsite interviews. It’s not that hard. He just needs to stop being greedy about getting the unvested RSUs and put his/her well being as top priority.
      Feb 14
    • Google usurper
      Lol pretty sure at $600k a year OP can afford to take a few months off to interview
      Feb 14
    • Apple apbob
      OP
      You are all right of course but I'm not that miserable and I'm not ready to walk. I'm known enough in my gig that I get feelers from other companies wanting to get into our space. If I wanted to go, I'd make the time.

      I'm running at this pace because I don't want to do this (ie: traditional job) forever and it's a means to an end. Hopefully an earlier end. The regular talk at home is about an exit strategy.
      Feb 19

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