aws new employee - thoughts

Wayfair pbSy87
May 20 60 Comments

just joined AWS 2 weeks ago as sde 1. i thought since its AWS I'd probably be working with smart people. I come from wayfair, which pretty much has the worst eng culture and thought may be if I join AWS, I will get to work with people who know what they are doing. I started code reviewing - folks are pushing out code with 40 intermediate commits with some horrendous commit messages. I suggested to squash commits as not all commits are important and keep the git history clean to only important commits. sde-2s suggesting me it does not matter.

what did I get myself into? have to start leetcoding again now. damn. incompetence just oozing everywhere.

TC 196K

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TOP 60 Comments
  • Amazon Oggy
    I mean honestly, this is why you're SDE1. Git pretension is the fucking worst- as if squashing commits is a proxy for intelligence.
    May 20 13
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      Looks like a lot of Amazon folks here have not worked on a git open source project. So they dont know how a squash could be valuable and how complicated your history can become and what the repercussions could be. There is a difference between being oblivious and just not caring enough. That's fine, I am actually thankful that I understand git internals having contributed to the project.
      May 21
    • Amazon / Eng fahrenheit
      This has nothing to do with Git internals or open source. Some projects use Git history as a program-domain sequence of logical changes with a common goal. Some projects use Git history as a work log. Yes, the Git project itself and the Kernel obviously go for the former, but Git does not prescribe an interpretation for its DAG. You can use it however you please. It's a matter of agreeing with your collaborators on how you'll use Git to communicate and cooperate. You have a lot of growing left to do as a software professional if you think a dogmatic approach makes any sense here.
      May 21
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      @farenheit this is what I meant by apathy. good luck. Commits go to production and will be part of your history for a long time and you have absolutely no idea how they are used. Clogging the history with dumb commits that were originally intended for you, is just a wrong decision. Go deeper and try to really understand what's happening. Remember just because you think something is not valuable, doesn't mean it is not. Value the small things and they will compound. Remember the culture you are creating around you.
      May 21
    • Amazon slang
      Haha holy shit, what the fuck are those last 4 fortune cookie programming insights? Go deeper? Value the small things? Be the change? OP is 12 yoe. Wait, no 12 yo.
      May 21
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      @slang a brand new stock of bananas just arrived. run, this is your only chance.
      May 21
  • Amazon gdxi4nd
    Welcome to Amazon!
    May 20 0
  • Zillow Group o-/-<
    You are going to be squashed
    May 20 9
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      and how does furniture matter?
      May 20
    • Amazon uslag
      Was that also sarcasm, or do we have to explain the link between Wayfair, and buying houses?
      May 20
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      you do realize that I work for Amazon right. I have nothing to do with Wayfair anymore. Try keeping track of the context and dont get lost in the recursive stack.
      May 20
    • Microsoft UMbR31
      Can't wait for Blind to get hacked, only to reveal uslag is OP's L8 :)
      May 20
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      that's should be the least of your concerns - if blind were to get hacked
      May 20
  • Amazon citasec
    We squash on merge...
    May 20 3
    • New / Eng QTdN03
      That’s what my team at Microsoft does too. It’s part of our tooling, so it would be a waste of time to squash before PR.
      May 20
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      this is good, usually tools like gitlab have that as part of tooling
      May 20
    • Amazon citasec
      The CRUX tool let’s you fast forward or summary commit (squash). My team does the latter. I don’t see why you can’t do that either OP? What’s the problem
      May 20
  • Amazon / Eng
    fahrenheit

    Amazon Eng

    PRE
    Zalando
    BIO
    Amazon SDE2 in Berlin
    fahrenheitmore
    Really? Of all the bullshit that goes on in Amazon in the technical space, you're concerned about fucking Git history?

    You don't mention the constant churn of deprecation, the ancient tooling, the management by panic, the suffocating weight of legacy, the bureaucratic mess of escalation, the ridiculous level of unnecessary complexity in the service spaghetti, the proliferation of integration at the persistence layer, the awful close coupling of everything to every other thing, the fact that using AWS in Amazon is rare except for a couple of services and autoscaling is not really a thing, the immature and dogmatic approach to database technology, the fad-driven architecture, the abandoned horrible projects that were only set up to get someone promoted but drive enormous risk, the ancient intern projects that grew like fungus into org-wide technical cornerstones with zero planning and now cause pain for thousands of engineers for no good reason.

    No, you care about Git history hygiene.

    Grow up.
    May 20 6
    • Amazon / Eng fahrenheit
      I'm in AWS but I've read enough and spoken to enough people to know it's just as bad in CDO. I don't know if tech ops management by panic is also a thing if you're not under cbell.
      May 21
    • New / Eng
      10yoe250k

      New Eng

      PRE
      Google
      10yoe250kmore
      Sorry, what is CDO?
      May 21
    • New / Eng
      10yoe250k

      New Eng

      PRE
      Google
      10yoe250kmore
      I am trying to understand where is the worst place to be in Amazon.
      May 21
    • Amazon / Eng fahrenheit
      Commercial, Digital and Other. It basically means "not AWS" in everyday parlance. I don't know if it's strictly true (I imagine things like Legal are neither AWS nor CDO) but AWS and CDO pretty much cover the parts of Amazon that SDEs need to think of, as far as I understand.
      May 21
    • Amazon slang
      In every team I've ever been on, the guy who starts contentious code reviews over linting / config / tabsVspaces / Git history etc. Has always been the least mature and least effective. OP just confirming this observation again.
      May 21
  • Intuit what!
    Walk that developer through a scenario when he would need to revert a change back because of a major bug. How would they go about doing that?

    Also, I believe you are new so no one will listen to you. Spend some more time in the team and then try bringing it up again.

    I am generally surprised about how many engg teams undermine the importance of right branching model and clean git history
    May 20 0
  • Google / Eng blahhalb
    In Amazon, it all depends on how smart are the seniors engineers/managers. Everyone is super burnt out so nobody in amazon cares about small things. Wait for some time and you will see the kind of hacks devs have put in code. AWS is the worst place to work. Let me know if you need a google referral.
    May 20 4
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      thank you appreciate it, however I recently interviewed with them and did not get in. I will try again next year
      May 20
    • Amazon slang
      This surprises me not at all.
      May 21
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      The correct grammar would be - that does not surprise me at all. Looks like you are from the country that shall not be named.
      May 21
    • Amazon slang
      @pbSy87 I would really, really love to hear which country you think I’m from.
      May 23
  • Rally Health FuPayMe$$$
    Who the fuck cares about the codebase as long as the tc is good?! Make your goddamn money and enjoy life.
    May 20 1
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      ?? Because when you need to be oncall you have to unfuck your shits.
      May 20
  • Medallia / Eng ouie
    $196 TC and complaining about git commit messages? And we think there isn’t a huge bubble in tech...
    May 21 0
  • Oscar 🐨koala
    Lol
    May 20 0
  • Microsoft / Eng BamI53
    When I was at Amazon, our team manually does the squash locally before merge, it feels dumb not to have a system to enforce squash..
    May 20 4
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      Use arc to land commits.
      May 20
    • Oracle / Eng otLQ15
      Amazon’s own tool is much better than arc
      May 20
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      Then why are amazonians complaining about not squashing commits?
      May 20
    • Amazon / Eng fahrenheit
      Because OP is riding the initial peak of Dunning-Kruger. Disregard the whole complaint, it's ridiculous.
      May 21
  • New / Eng
    10yoe250k

    New Eng

    PRE
    Google
    10yoe250kmore
    What was your wayfair TC? Yoe?
    May 20 2
    • Wayfair pbSy87
      OP
      130K 3 years IC
      May 20
    • New / Eng
      10yoe250k

      New Eng

      PRE
      Google
      10yoe250kmore
      Look for a team change?
      May 20
  • Microsoft / Eng BingNews
    Lead by example, nit the shit out of them fix it lol
    May 20 1
    • Intuit what!
      I have found out that rolling out any changes to developer workflow is very difficult. Its not like a piece of code which you can fix and rollout. Whole team has to agree to it. And even if they agree if they don’t use or find easy to use its anyways a failure.
      May 20
  • Bayer / IT Genie_22
    Disagree and commit :)
    May 20 1
    • Amazon slang
      Just not on master
      May 21
  • Wayfair WNEm45
    Yeah... Wayfair is not the only place with bad practices. Doesn't matter where you go - to make outsized impact, one has to skip certain things. I've just learned to live with it.
    May 20 0
  • Intermedia kVvj47
    AWS in Seattle ?
    May 20 0