career vs family decisions

Salesforce fyutp
Aug 30 284 Comments

I have verbal offers from Google and Netflix , didnt prepare much, but very confused if i should take them up due to the soon family events, my wife needed a change from the rut and she joined a startup and so she is working like 12 hours a day. We want to have kids soon like in the very near short term. i have 7 YOE at Salesforce and I am very happy, yes the compensation could be little higher, but it can always be higher anywhere you go. I get 6 months of leave as a primary care giver where as my wife gets only 6 weeks , im very established in my company so its super stable , im confused if i should take up these offers seriously and move in an already busy work schedule ? atleast for first one year i would need to spend long hours to prove myself, that is something thats stopping me. especially Netflix with such crazy WLB and their history to fire employees left and right. thoughts ? any perspective here ? looking for a balance between work and family life.

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TOP 284 Comments
  • Netflix alphacoder
    Can only speak for Netflix: i have a newborn, and my wlb is fine. I work 9-5, and so do most of my peers. But when we work - we WORK. No one is cruising, and those who do - get fired. If you want to cruise, and don’t feel like bringing your A-game every day - then Netflix is probably not good fit for you.
    Aug 30 7
    • Microsoft btrwxcwhd
      Maybe that’s why Netflix is really elite. I think at Microsoft maybe 10% of ppl actually have the mindset to crush it everyday. Netflix it’s closer to 90. I admire Netflix people. They work harder than us and that’s why paid more. No problem with that from my end.
      Aug 30
    • Microsoft Tattle
      I crushed it everyday the last 1 year and got barely above target rewards. Was working 7 hours a day last year and got target. My pay at senior is 200K. This is the reason people don't bring their A-game everyday at MSFT. The ROI isn't worth it.
      Aug 30
    • Netflix fMCE7GKL
      Agreed. Be prepared to deliver if you come to Netflix. Everyone is stellar and if you're not or want to coast you're out.
      Aug 30
    • Snapchat 2 , club
      Come to snap. We definitely don’t crush it everyday here, and you can still get paid more than Netflix.
      Aug 30
    • Shutterfly chadrow
      You manager?
      Aug 31
  • GitHub LLFG78
    Stay.
    Aug 30 11
    • Amazon / Eng Jeffsballs
      If your employer don’t understand you want the best path ($$) for your career then he’s blind. Asking for competitive compensation should never be a thing to be afraid of. Just be honest and open about these discussion and you’ll have a much healthier relationship.
      Aug 30
    • Guidewire ooooou
      There a difference between asking for comp vs countering offers.
      Aug 30
    • Roku moggers
      People talk lots of rubbish about counter offers being toxic. Work is a two way contract, and to an extent comp is a game. If you are in a hot market or an individual niche, good at what you do and it turns out there's someone willing to pay you more - then that is your new market rate.

      You go back and present that info to your manager and say, here's the proof. I want to stay, but it's important my comp reflects my value.

      If they value you, and the company is a sensible one - you get your raise. If not, you leave.

      either way - No hard feelings and now you go back to doing your best work.
      Aug 30
    • Stripe / Finance yMOx41
      I know someone at Salesforce that did this and received a $100k retention bonus to stick around for another year.
      Aug 31
    • Cornerstone infstone
      Mr glass you nailed it. 2 days gone, top post on blind and OP haven't replied much.
      Sep 1
  • Cigna jaIG72
    First off, kids are wonderful blessings and the world needs more intelligent and caring parents who truly care about their children.

    However, with that said there are some questions you should be asking yourself:
    Am I ok staying home with a newborn and getting little/no sleep? Women have maternal instincts that in some cases seem to override logic. Enough so that they'll go through traumatizing amounts of pain and body disconfiguration and still not only say it was worth it but want to do it again. Guys, not so much. Going out to the office is sometimes the only thing that keeps us sane.

    How is your wife's constitution? Is she going to be ok working 8 or 9 months pregnant? Is she going to be up to working 12hour days six weeks after childbirth? (Hint, You can tell
    a lot by looking at your MIL)

    How is your wife's mental fortitude/how strong are her maternal instincts? Is she ok with pumping out a kid and going back to work? That's a lot of stress for some people and post partem hits some a lot harder than you'd think. Again, look to her mother and encourage her to have a real heart-to-heart talk with her mom about it. Prior generations of women often assumed the ongoing pain, the crippling depression, etc were normal and just something to ignore and bear. Getting some insight on what obstacles you might face will make a huge difference. You dont want your SO crying her eyes out in the bathroom at work 'cause she feels like she abandoned her child.

    How do you both feel about postponing having a kid? How long is too long to wait? You can have a shit ton of money but if that means you're older and infertile or dont have the energy to chase after the child you wanted then it's not at all worth it.

    Ask your friends who have recently had kids what else you should take into consideration. If you're having a hard time thinking of anyone to ask then you should really think about building up your support system. At some point you're going to need help with your kid and you dont want to leave them with your drinking buddy. That isn't fair to anyone.
    Aug 30 4
    • Facebook / Eng notatrole
      This is the most heartfelt, genuine answer I've ever read on blind. I wish there was a heart react I could give this.
      Aug 31
    • Vistaprint / Eng
      proj ill

      Vistaprint Eng

      PRE
      Cimpress
      proj illmore
      I don't think I would advise talking to the MIL unless she also worked with kids. Otherwise there is a chance she will be extremely biased. Both my mom and MIL don't really understand why my wife wants a career. Also there is a 50% chance she takes after her dad, not her mom.

      I would think carefully before postponing kids. Fertility decreases (very gradually) from about 31 on, so don't wait too long. I've seen so many people struggling to have kids these days (mid thirties).

      The help thing I'm not so sure I agree with. Had two kids in a place with no family or support and never needed to send them to a buddies house. Is it tough? Yeah. Do I wish I could drop them at the grandparents for a few hours sometimes? Yeah, but we've gotten by without it.
      Aug 31
    • Salesforce fyutp
      OP
      Very thoughtful 👏
      Aug 31
    • Salesforce / Mktg owowhtsths
      I’m really curious why you didn’t ask him more deeply about his constitution or willingness to stay home? At the end of the day when you have kids both parents need to be prepared to stay at home for some time, not just for paternity/maternity leave but if your partner becomes ill (happens all the time) or if your child becomes seriously ill (more common than you would think), or if you face any number of potential family complications throughout the entire process. Just as work is often an escape for men, it is also an escape for women.

      My suggestion is to leave because you can better establish work life balance in a new role than in an old one. You set your standard when you come in, you set your boundaries, you pick your projects etc. I would go to Netflix. Why? Because you don’t have a kid yet. Even if you spend a year or 6 months there and then take leave you will be in a better situation. You can always go back to Salesforce. Google is also always going to want you if they want you now. Have the kids, but leave Salesforce and set boundaries in your new work environment, being some Ohana culture with you or something.

      Employees have to learn to define the culture of where they land. As much as the culture of the organization pushed on you, you can push back. Just be smart about how you do it. Also doing things like bringing your kids into the office to visit switches the dynamic of how people work with you as well. These tactics are important in getting people to face the fact that your kids are actual humans who need attention and change everyday. Everyday you are in the office you are missing milestones with your kids. Your colleagues need to know that YOU KNOW THIS.

      Also build strategic relationships up the chain as your family grows. It’s just as important when you need some exception because of a challenge with family, health or anything else. The more the execs know you the more your management chain will accommodate your needs.

      Have the family.

      Good luck.
      Aug 31
  • Square / Eng ReferralMe
    "didn't prepare much"

    Weird flex
    Aug 30 0
  • New / Other NoMeansY/N
    Netflix is definitely out of the equation
    Aug 30 0
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Guidewire ooooou
      Wtf Uber
      Aug 30
    • New LViv82
      Wtf Uber @sidysb827
      Aug 30
    • PayPal / Eng v3nm0
      So the news article about bad bro culture at Uber was talking about you. I see it now.
      Aug 30
    • MongoDB tlb_miss
      How are you guys so good?
      Aug 30
    • Google Mr. Glass
      Uber is right. Suck it up and deliver. Don’t be entitled.
      Aug 30
  • Amazon hywfy
    Copy pasting from a previous post:

    I'll share my experience: I started a new job shortly after giving birth and it was a terrible mistake. I really wish I had stayed home longer between jobs. My baby didn't start sleeping through the night u til he was 15 months old, so I was getting 5-6 broken hours of sleep for an entire year. Chronic sleep deprivation and being a hormonal hot mess after birth completely tanked my productivity and since it was a new job, I had no good will on the new team so my performance reviews weren't good. I had an unpleasant maternity leave (colicky baby) but if I had to do it again I would have stayed at home much longer or stayed at my old job. It just wasn't worth it.
    Aug 30 2
    • Microsoft shoulders
      Something like this happened to me as well... Although I'm a Dad, I was the primary parent and my kid was a bit older. Finally left that job. It was a miserable few years. I received no understanding. I pray to God those bastards get buried by the competition.
      Aug 30
    • This is why we need more men as primary parents. You dont know until you need. And god some colleagues without that experience can be brutal.
      Aug 30
  • Nordstrom HiroP66
    Get written agreements and turn it into a raise. You don't need to restart your tenure.
    Aug 30 2
    • Amazon hywfy
      This is great advice
      Aug 30
    • New arhR58
      This is the right answer
      Aug 30
  • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
    In the poll include other options like none of the above, all of the above, don't be crazy and waste your and other's time etc. If you have a stable job and given the family circumstances you should have thought about what you want to do. Like a crazy or a confused lunatic you went ahead and wasted your time, 2 other companies' time, so many interviewers, recruiters, coordinators, so much $$$, more importantly 2 other job seekers' precious chances. Now you are wasting so many other people's time on this app. I would say get the hell out of this app, behave like a responsible citizen aka an educated person. Based on what you are saying you seem to be a crazy, desperate, money monger. Shut up and get out. That's my honest suggestion...
    Aug 30 9
    • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
      Dude mXFA80, read all the other points I have highlighted from the initial post, so much confusion. Looks like you are reading on the surface, step back, relax and re-read in its entirety and ask yourself. What is the root cause for all of this confusion. One has to be content with what is already you have, especially when you are happy, good possibility to grow in the same company, thinking about growing the family etc. Cheryl Sandberg said women can have it all. This is what Michelle Obama responde - 'That shit doesn't work all the time'. This is the reality. Everyone wishes in life they can keep growing in their career, grow the family, do everything one dreams of but the reality is you get married, you have to care for the children, their sports, education, your health declines so as how much your brain can learn and obsorb. So one has to sit back with cool mind every now and then and prioritize what is most important to you and make decisions instead of going with the flow. I'm not advocating for being stagnant or compromising your ambitions for family and children but there is always an balancing act. You cannot let the circumstances dictate you, you be in control of your life. That's all I'm saying...
      Aug 30
    • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
      Fyutp, in such large forum people can always give their input but ultimately you have to make the decision for your life, your future, your family and your well being. If you make such decisions after polling that's your choice or approach. Good luck with everything. You are about to start a family, I have passed through that stage years ago. So our perspectives are different about family, life, priorities etc. I wish you nothing but best. I hope you make the right decision that you can look back years from now and be proud of, and swayed by the polling data
      Aug 30
    • Guidewire ooooou
      He’s not wasting anybody’s time. He’s exploring. Get a grip on reality. What’s got you so triggered. Jealous maybe.
      Aug 30
    • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
      I read so many reasonable people giving advice not to give weight to the poll and to follow your own heart, make a decision that your wife and children would be proud of. That is my point. You have established yourself in SF, probably the opportunity to grow and even earn more is higher than going to a new company, start to prove yourself, you may not like the culture or end up getting a jerk as a Manager etc, all those risks are there. In the end the long term potential in your current established job may outweigh the short-term term raise, with so much risk and uncertainty for your family, future.
      Aug 30
    • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
      oooou - you say jealous, not at all. A reasonable person would sit with the spouse and have a heart to heart conversation about the future and jointly make the decision. If more input is needed seek input from parents, friends, siblings, mentors and others who knows the family well. Poll in a public forum is not a good way to make personal decisions, it can only lead to further confusion because no one in the forum knows what is important to this family. Hope you get a grip on reality and not the reality show you pretend to be in 😉
      Aug 30
  • Oracle CmWs84
    Do what you think will make your wife and future kids proud of you. More money is not always the answer, but not progressing in life is unfortunate. I left AWS to Oracle for what I tell to myself for better compensation, but the truth is if AWS rewarded my 5 years of +A performance I wouldn’t have left. The company was good but the management wasn’t and that reflected on the employees morals. To give your best then to see someone who knows someone get the promotion is hard :) if your current work place treats you as you think you deserve than give them a chance to keep you. Companies who cares about their employees will put the effort to keep them. On a side note, a lot of them might not have the “match the offer” rule, at least AWS doesn’t do that based on an HR manager I used to know there. Good luck and future for you and your family.
    Aug 30 3
    • Salesforce fyutp
      OP
      Very thoughtful 👏
      Aug 30
    • AWS=Amazon, correct?
      Aug 30
    • Microsoft !MSFT
      ^ yes. Amazon cloud ☁
      Aug 31
  • Palo Alto Networks Clowns
    I would stay. Life is short. You’ll regret all your life that you didn’t spend more time with your family. The money difference is not worth it. You can always change job in 2 years ... But that moment with your kid is gone forever... With your kid, you’ll want to live in the moment. Not think about office politics while with your kids.
    Aug 30 0
  • SAP Yurty10
    Stay. Going into parenthood is a steep learning curve, lack of sleep etc. With the parental benefits that you have at Salesforce it’s a no-brainer. Family first. Google will always be there in 3-5 years when things settle down (if you have a few kids in close succession).
    Aug 30 0
  • New tlorr
    The post is very confusing. If you are happy and not sure about changing your job, why would you go interview in the first place? If your wife is working 12 hours a day, how are you going to have a baby? The options in the survey are also very biased. The whole post smells fishy.
    Aug 30 7
    • Ironshore arch135
      He might have started interview process long back . His wife started working in startup recently only
      Aug 31
    • New tlorr
      It doesn't change what I said.
      Aug 31
    • Facebook blueriver
      They can have a baby if he is the primary caregiver. Plenty of families have one parent working crazy hours — it only becomes a problem with two.
      Aug 31
    • Microsoft / Product anonymeee
      If she is working 12 hours where is the time to have a baby? Probably she is very tired already. If he is so confused about whether to leave a job where he is happy and settled vs. Which 'verbal' offer to accept how is he going to get the mood to - - - - in order to have a baby. Looks like baby formula is out of question at the moment it seems... 🙄😁
      Aug 31
    • GQR / Data s0cr4t3453
      Interviewing for the purpose of discovery or affirmation while inactive or passive is totally rational imo; it’s a logical way to see behind the curtain, passed the biased perceptions of others to benchmark one’s current position. It seems like a win to me to have explored alternatives and to stay put as a more informed person making an active decision, rather than a relatively less informed relatively more passive one.
      Aug 31
  • Uber denshaSai
    Take parental leave, then Google, then another parental leave
    Aug 30 6
    • Google mtwn38
      Need to be employed at the same job for 12m before getting federal benefits. State benefits kick in right away, but in either case you get paid by gov. Not the company. Best case you might be able to neg. unpaid.
      Aug 30
    • Oracle LAoh31
      Sorry, can you point me to the federal or state govt laws that pay for 6 month of parental leave. Ive never heard this before
      Aug 30
    • Uber denshaSai
      Is parental leave state or federal benefits?
      Aug 31
    • Amazon / Eng
      hi..

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      hi..more
      Probably different country?
      Aug 31
    • Oracle LAoh31
      Its a non-american benefit.
      Sep 1
  • Expedia Group sKvX54
    Becoming a new parent to an infant is taxing on you, your relationship and your work. Throw in a new job, new culture to adapt to you will drown. Heck you will drown even at your current company but you're more established there and built a good reputation.

    Having a child is disruptive in good and bad ways. In all honesty there will be parts of the three I mentioned that will suffer from some form of neglect/ mismanagement or rather under management. It's a matter of choosing what can be under managed. What that is I'll leave to you
    Aug 30 1
    • Totally agree with this. Just had a baby a year ago and husband went through a job change right around the time I was due (not by choice) and it was SO stressful. There’s something to be said for staying somewhere stable and familiar with good benefits and leave policy, even if you’re potentially trading off a bit higher income. The good news is, those other places will still be there when you get to a place where you think you’re ready to make a change!
      Aug 31
  • Netflix FckTheWrld
    add a POLL
    Aug 30 2
    • Salesforce fyutp
      OP
      done
      Aug 30
    • Google hib
      Those poll options are worded in a way to get what you want. Go for your desire. Work for Google
      Aug 30
  • New / Sales utbR13g
    I would say you could look at this two ways . Will you regret not taking the shot ? If you don’t go with Netflix or google ? The time before kids is best time as a parent and spouse to take on more . But then again , is the risk better than the reward ? If it’s not broken, why try to fix it ? Also if you’re truly happy with your current job , that’s something to consider . Are you generally a positive person ? Could you be happy anywhere ? I would ask more questions of each of the opportunities .
    Aug 30 0
  • LinkedIn Microsoft
    Go to LinkedIn. Good pay, fantastic perks and the best work life balance.
    Aug 30 0
  • Uber / Eng
    suggsr

    Uber Eng

    PRE
    Google
    suggsrmore
    You can always move later, put family in first place ALWAYS, no matter what.
    Aug 30 5
    • Spotify dogfoodr
      Then.. Why are you working for uber if you put family first?
      Aug 30
    • Uber / Eng
      suggsr

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Google
      suggsrmore
      Because they pay me tons of money and I work very little.
      Aug 30
    • Spotify dogfoodr
      Are you an outlier within uber is it the public opinion of uber not accurate?
      Aug 30
    • Uber / Eng
      suggsr

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Google
      suggsrmore
      Not at all
      Aug 30
    • Spotify dogfoodr
      🤔
      Aug 31
  • Facebook
    peidhxkn

    Facebook

    PRE
    Netflix, Adobe
    peidhxkn more
    I’m a new mom (still on mat leave) at Facebook and worked at Netflix before. WLB is not that different from Netflix and Facebook. Nobody ever gets fired from Netflix for “not working long hours” - they have unlimited PTO and people do take it.
    And with the firing, yes it happens but you get 4 mo fully paid severance under director level and you will have no problem finding a job.

    Sounds like you aren’t even pregnant yet - don’t make life decisions with unknowns.

    One thing I’d consider is your location - Netflix is in Los Gatos vs google MTV or SF, which could make one less attractive than the other. Not sure if you are planning to move once pregnant.

    Netflix parental leave is like 6 mo-1 year (officially max 1 year but people take 6 mo) and google is 4 mo, so Netflix wins.

    Do what’s better for your career and exciting for you. Don’t take the foot off the pedal until you absolutely have to - when you have a baby and need to go back, that job better be damn worthwhile and exciting enough.
    Aug 31 2
    • Facebook / Eng
      dividebyz

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      dividebyzmore
      Great advice!
      Aug 31
    • Salesforce NNN-SSSS
      I like the Advice!
      Sep 2

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