meritocracy in silicon valley is officially dead – diversity killed it

Facebook / Product
helloZuck

Facebook Product

PRE
Facebook, Google
helloZuckmore
Jul 16, 2017 111 Comments

time to find a new industry. observations:

1) google and fb are so afraid of the outside and improving their diversity metrics that they have now instituted quotas for hiring only female candidates.

2) i recently interviewed a fb product manager candidate that should not have been hired but was hired anyway due to her being a female

3) teams actively discriminate against male candidates for engineering and product roles these days – i talked to a friend who is an amazing pm at google, he wanted to transfer to a team with an open pm headcount but was denied because the team was looking at only female candidates... what the fuck???

4) vc firms hiring opportunists and SJW activists from twitter to try to stay on the good graces of the god damn feminists of twitter

5) startups actively recruiting only female candidates to try to please the activists of twitter

6) google recently hired a head of diversity from intel who has the worst fucking ideas including quota system for diverse candidates

7) seems like the easiest place companies have found to add diversity is in non technical product management roles thus ruining the entire fucking field with absolute garbage people who have no business being a product manager.

so much more. add your experience here. is this happening at your company too?

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TOP 111 Comments
  • GE / Design olnd
    Let me guess, most people in here complaining are white middle aged males? Not saying you are wrong in your complaint, it's just that times are changing and the rest of humanity is getting a shot at privilege so shut up or help change things. Yes there will be a few underserving minorities here and there but so what? How many white males are in positions today simply because they are white males?

    Times are changing.
    Jul 16, 2017 5
    • Lending Club / Other Bumgarner
      "You're not wrong but shut up and take the injustice because of white privilege." Go F Yourself.
      Jul 16, 2017
    • > How many white males are in positions today simply because they are white males?

      Is this really how you think the world works?
      Jul 16, 2017
    • Bloomberg RamboB
      I went to a nerdy high school where minorities hated affirmative action, they would decline to answer the race identification question.
      Jul 17, 2017
    • H&R Block / Design
      YHsU07

      H&R Block Design

      PRE
      hrblock
      YHsU07more
      We need equity to help create an environment with more equality and sustainability. Filling a raw quota does not help because if you get crappy candidates it will continue to reinforce the Women can't code stereotype and make actual women feel they got hired for their skills.

      Diversity is awesome, and I'm saying this as a non-white woman
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Google sojr12
      Two wrongs don't make a right.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • The only people these diversity quotas hurt are mediocre candidates from the majority demographic (white or male usually). If someone can prove they've got skills, any decent hiring manager will make an exception to the quota. The shift toward diversity just means you have to work a little harder to show what you can do.

    Don't disagree that it's caused some questionable hires, but that's collateral as far as I'm concerned. If a few people get jobs they shouldn't have so that the industry is more accessible, I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. The discussion around it gets pretty ridiculous sometimes, but i don't believe there's a strong case to be made against diversity in principle.
    Jul 16, 2017 2
    • Square WelActualy
      No one is against diversity. People are against forced diversity via affirmative action. There are many strong arguments against affirmative action.
      Jul 16, 2017
    • Uber GMie27
      "If someone can prove they've got skills, any decent hiring manager will make an exception to the quota." That's not true when the manager is also a questionable hire. And many companies have hiring committees to make the decision.
      Jul 16, 2017
  • SEVENROOMS / Eng
    aDBs62

    SEVENROOMS Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    aDBs62more
    But meritocracy was never a real thing anyway.
    Jul 16, 2017 7
    • Facebook / Product
      helloZuck

      Facebook Product

      PRE
      Facebook, Google
      helloZuckmore
      OP
      yup even stanford and harvard grads. you would be surprised how many dumbasses get into those schools. also in the name of diversity.
      Jul 16, 2017
    • The meritocracy is/was as real as the tooth fairy
      Jul 16, 2017
    • Google YtVU65
      So many great people could not work where they wanted because they were born in wrong countries. So much for the meritocracy.
      Jul 16, 2017
    • Google vtoB16
      Google still rejects 99% of candidates
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Bring Ruckus / Mktg
      indioman99

      Bring Ruckus Mktg

      PRE
      Google, Facebook
      BIO
      Running Growth and hiring the best Growth people.
      indioman99more
      It's not a meritocracy when you were trying to hire the exact same type of person over and over again. It's pattern recognition and the system just happened to work in your favor, and I have to imagine will continue to work mostly in your favor for the rest of your angry existence. And now occasionally certain systems (like quotas) benefit people not just like you and you're crying about unfairness. No addt'l PM hire will make or break Goog or FB, and neither will you...so be happy you get to interact with people outside of your narrow world and take some solace in the fact that you and they matter almost nothing to your giant orgs.
      Jul 27, 2017
  • New uImU66
    yeah see though, it turns out that many of these people aren't as qualified specifically because fuck faces like you actively tilt towards white males when left to your own devices. When women and minorities are systematically left out, of course it's harder to find ones with the same qualifications.

    Maybe, just maybe, these companies are planning for the future and trying to actually improve the world, rather than cowering in the face of your Twitter strawmen.
    Jul 16, 2017 2
    • New / Design Isaiah
      exactly, its a vicious cycle. How am I supposed to be qualified if I never get the chance to work in positions, find were my deficiencies are and fix them/ move up the ladder? I mostly learn by hands on experience. freelance provides mostly LAMP stack work while companies now need MEAN stack experience
      Jul 17, 2017
    • New / Design Isaiah
      also once you are accepted, you'll need to quickly catch up to peers who've been in these companies for years. No one started out as a pro, it took years of learning and making mistakes. None of which can be done, if you are rarely considered a good culture fit.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • Google fumw
    Meritocracy my ass. I have been working far too long in this industry to know that a lot of people get ahead not because they are good but because they are part of a majority and know how to play politics. How many people do you think go through peer review or interviews and get passed over because they are not the acceptable type which has absolutely nothing to do with their skills but everything to do with their gender, skin color or age. I know so many people at Google who are good who are passed up year after year ... What you call lowering "the bar" for other minorities only prioritizes that these inequalities get fixed by eliminating bias from our ranks. Yes bad candidates fall thru the cracks but this also happened years ago, it's just not highlighted because it's a member of the majority that got thru. So get over yourself, if you are a member of the majority who's been mailing it in all these years, it's time you do some real work for a change.
    Jul 16, 2017 3
    • GE / Design olnd
      Thank you
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Visa shaolin
      Exactly
      Aug 14, 2017
    • New / Eng zyzzyva!
      Thank you
      Aug 15, 2018
  • Facebook freem
    My issue with the "diversity" label is that it doesn't really mean diversity... just black, Latino, and female. And I'd be happy to see more under-represented minorities, but resent the subterfuge of the "diversity" label;I think it just alienates people .

    I was in a manager meeting and there were Chinese (male and female) , Vietnamese, Russian, Indians (male and female), an Israeli, and a bunch of other random Europeans and someone had the nerve to say, "Look around, there's no diversity in this room."

    (minority here)
    Jul 16, 2017 2
    • Tesla VJMI41
      Is that nerve or just complete ignorance?
      Jul 16, 2017
    • Facebook freem
      I'd probably say it was well-meaning naivete. But I saw other people look around uncomfortably and the only person who said something was a Spaniard, "What, I don't count?" awkward.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • Netflix AqEe56
    Maybe you're whining about it because you kind of suck technically? You certainly suck on a personal level. Suggestion: Be better at what you do than all other candidates and you won't have to worry about any of it. This includes exhibiting emotional intelligence.
    Jul 16, 2017 2
    • Facebook / Product
      helloZuck

      Facebook Product

      PRE
      Facebook, Google
      helloZuckmore
      OP
      lol really?
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Netflix AqEe56
      Lol fuck you!
      Jul 17, 2017
  • Microsoft / Eng
    ☠Nutella☠

    Microsoft Eng

    BIO
    The original S Nutella!! Bam Bam Lolol!!
    ☠Nutella☠more
    Microsoft too. At my cafeteria, I have seen 1 white male, 1 east asian male, 2 black males, and 40 females.
    I think that's fine though.
    Also, meritocracy never existed, not in its pure form anyway.

    No reason to be outraged, nothing entitles you to anything in this world.
    Jul 16, 2017 1
    • Google SMB2014
      I want to work at this amazing office!
      Jul 17, 2017
  • New BGjo88
    You white privileged males are ridiculous and total losers! Discriminating against women who have a hard enough time in tech is not ok. Your complaint is sick and just shows that you cannot keep a job and complain because you probably suck at what you do. We women are not privileged and discriminated against on a daily basis. And no, we are still a minority and there are more men hired all the time. What a stupendous post!
    Jul 16, 2017 3
    • Johnson & Johnson / Mktg
      MiracleMax

      Johnson & Johnson Mktg

      PRE
      General Electric
      MiracleMaxmore
      You seem really good at black and white thinking! If there happens to be any nuance in an issue, I'm sure we can count on you to push it all to one extreme end of the spectrum. Bravo!
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Facebook / Product
      helloZuck

      Facebook Product

      PRE
      Facebook, Google
      helloZuckmore
      OP
      i’m not white. just throwing that out there.
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Google sojr12
      I'm just hoping this is a troll post. How could someone be so blind to her own racist and sexist hatred.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • Microsoft sauced
    This is a classic Blond thread full of angry white middle aged dudes, who were probably never comfortable talking to women, are average at their jobs and scared of having to change.

    Anyone stupid enough to think it's natural for women and minorities to make up a such a small portion of tech industry is retarded. It's mostly fucked up company cultures driven by dicks like you.
    Jul 16, 2017 5
    • Amazon / Other
      arb1980

      Amazon Other

      PRE
      Amazon
      arb1980more
      Oh, so Asians are not considered minorities now? Give me a break. If a woman, black, or Latino, is qualified, no problem. But liberal obsession with diversity and identity politics is sacrificing quality.
      Jul 16, 2017
    • New / Mgmt
      bb1000

      New Mgmt

      BIO
      Woman in tech. Under 30. Currently working at an SF startup. Past: One successful exit.
      bb1000more
      It's natural for a company's demographic to reflect the demographic of the country it's based in. Which google does not. They employ way more minorities and women than is reflective of the general population and the workforce population.

      It's almost impossible for them for employ more women and minorities than they already do. Literally the population cannot sustain it. It's not natural or mathematically possible.

      - young woman in tech who understands math
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Salesforce / Eng
      kernelgrrl

      Salesforce Eng

      PRE
      Google
      kernelgrrlmore
      Women are about 50%. Google doesn't have 50%. -slightly older women in tech who understands math
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Databricks dumbdude
      Lol. Love the comment Kernelgrrl.
      Jul 17, 2017
    • New / Other
      dcxb85

      New Other

      BIO
      Woman in tech. Under 30. Currently working at an SF startup. Past: One successful exit.
      dcxb85more
      Comparing the composite of women in the skilled workforce vs. women in tech in general vs. Google's workforce... Google is doing better hands down.

      The 50% math would makes sense if 50% of women worked.

      They're doing great at hiring women. Phenomenal at hiring non-white employees compared to their own and other industries.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • Maybe you can get in on diversity hiring by revealing to recruiters that you're a huge dipshit?
    Jul 16, 2017 1
    • Facebook / Product
      helloZuck

      Facebook Product

      PRE
      Facebook, Google
      helloZuckmore
      OP
      sadly the dipshit quota already is full.
      Jul 17, 2017
  • New / Mktg
    inbetween

    New Mktg

    BIO
    product marketer by way of service redesign
    inbetweenmore
    If only all the incompetent white dudes I've worked for could sully the status quo the way a few sub par any one else's (women, blacks etc) can destroy goodwill towards their entire huge umbrella of people.
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • Microsoft ougvdyvgjg
    Meritocracy was bullshit to start with, that's why we have this problem now
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • Tesla VJMI41
    I will quote many great women of color: "Lord, grant me the confidence of a mediocre, straight white man."
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • SEVENROOMS / Eng
    aDBs62

    SEVENROOMS Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    aDBs62more
    I find that hard to believe. I have had Google people casually admit (while drunk) that they lower the bar for Stanford and raise the bar for no-name places.
    Jul 16, 2017 1
    • Google ANLb8
      That's sad but at any given time there are at least 10 different googlers submitting their feedback for one person. Someone wouldn't get hired because one person lowered the bar
      Jul 18, 2017
  • Google PICn50
    meritocracy was never a thing, but you trying to connect it with diversity is a total bs.
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • Qualcomm beerislife
    I remember at my previous company where we hired a person just because female. This was back in 2012 and all her interviews were bad. My manager was given a choice where he has to fill the headcount or the head count won't be available for next year or so due to some company wide actions. He picked her and it was so bad for the two years until she was fired due to not able to do work as required. We all had to pick up her work up and it was miserable in the end.
    Second incident just happened last year. layoff happened at my previous company and a co worker of mine who was on the verge of being laid off off was hired into a software role in a different group and he doesn't even know anything about programming. He told the manager he doesn't do programming and the manager said I need you to make my numbers look good otherwise I have bunch of indian and Asian resumes which I can't hire as they don't help with diversity in his team.
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • Databricks dumbdude
    Please leave the industry. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • New BGjo88
    So this is just another app where people can hide behind anonymous profiles and post racist and discriminating info? Sad!
    Jul 16, 2017 0
  • Yelp
    iworkhere

    Yelp

    BIO
    User Operations @Yelp / Coding Bootcamp Student
    iworkheremore
    As a woman working on completing a coding bootcamp, this makes me feel conflicted about my upcoming job hunt. I could use any edge I can get to make myself hirable, so that's in my favor. But I feel like I'll never really know if I deserve any job offer I may get. and I feel like ill be under extra scrutiny because the default assumption is that I was only hired to fill some quota. I'm gonna have to work twice as hard to overcome that impression and prove my competency. sucks.
    Jul 16, 2017 4
    • Databricks dumbdude
      Make sure you dont undersell yourself when you get offers
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Twilio eVpk08
      And because of this push, minorities and women will be forever stained.
      Jul 17, 2017
    • Google / Eng :P
      hugs
      Jul 18, 2017
    • Snapchat / Eng Dtbz76
      your fine, the head of the women's group at Yelp only had a boot camp plus six months as an engineer before getting promoted as a manager there.
      Aug 3, 2017

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