why is left so far left

Bose riplife
Jul 23 128 Comments

i think any decent middle ground democrat will have a good chance vs Trump but what are these stupid ideas ?

kamala - busing
everyone - healthcare for illegal immigrants
bernie - socialism
multiple people - repatritions for black people , yeah thays gonna be popular in majority white country . why not just help all the poor ?
talib - just pls stop attacking israel , jews are core to democrats

why not run on solid ground - gun reform , climate change etc?

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TOP 128 Comments
  • Facebook / Eng lkj630
    The us left is like centralist anywhere else 🙄
    Some of what's being discussed is finally moving some candidates into the rest of the world's definition of left, but no where near 'far left'.
    Jul 23 9
    • Microsoft savagefckr
      Nailed it. The US is different in that our left are like centrist anywhere else. It’s always been that way. So if you don’t like how it is in the U.S. then just go back to anywhere else and you will be a better fit. What’s the point in going to a better place and trying to make it a crappier place? 🤷🏼‍♂️
      Jul 24
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Sorry, personal feelings are not a good way to categorize politics. And things have not “always been this way”... a mainstream Republican from the 60s would be called a socialist by their own party today because in those decades everyone was some level of New Deal politician... just as today mainstream politicians are some level of neoliberal.

      I think a better measure is relationship to the current economic-political status quo Here’s a quick rundown from that standpoint

      Center-left:

      Liberalism: this will be broad-brush since there are technocrat liberals, social liberals, labor liberals, etc who have significant differences... but liberals support capitalism with regulations only to ensure (imo surface) fairness and minimize individual business corruption. Elizabeth Warren would be on the left end of this, maybe Beto or Biden on the right end. They are “center” and largely have the same ideology as conservatives with a much different approach. (For example liberals think the market would work great with a few fixes and many conservatives think the market would work great with a few less fixes.)

      Left:

      Social Democracy: I think the divide between liberal and social democracy is the border between center and left but it can be a blurry border. Unlike liberals, they think there are inherent problems in capitalism, but reforms, labor rights, and social welfare mend those issues. This is the ideology of most labor and even later democratic socialist parties in Europe or South America. Sanders and AOC call themselves democratic socialists but are closer to social democratic policies for the most part.

      Democratic socialism: unlike social democracy, they think class struggle is inherent and that pro-working class voices and policies in Congress/parliament are needed in order for workers to defend themselves and gain more rights and so on.

      Far left:

      Marxist-Leninists: aka Stalinists (and let’s group Maoists in there as well). Tbh don’t know where they would fit in, but since far-leftists have supported this in the past, I’ll put it here. Their ideas a a bit inconsistent imo because these ideas were developed mostly to defend/apologize for the national interests of Russia or China or whatnot at various specific points. But in effect, they believe that to stop foreign economic dominance; a strong state that can build the national economy is needed - and markets (at least initially) can’t develop the economy independently. They are mostly marginal on the left and other leftists tend to see these politics as illegitimate and “statist” or “authoritarian”.

      Revolutionary Marxists/Anarchists: like democratic socialists, they think that class struggle is inherent in capitalism; but unlike democratic socialists, they do not believe the government is a neutral organization that can be wielded by representatives of working class people for working class interests. Unlike Stalinists, they do not believe that a party can rule on behalf of workers interests. They generally believe that workers need to set up our own democratic structures and organizations. They are anti-state and think the system should be replaced by workers democracy or just mutual association. There are no Democrats who hold these views.
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      I dunno Microsoft. Your poor English kinda suggests you haven't done a very good job of assimilating here. Maybe you're not the best person to be deciding who should stay and who should go?
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Thanks for taking the time to write that up ellisdee! 👏👏👏👏

      Only addition I'd add is that the difference between social democracy and democratic socialism is a little more stark in terms of end game. Democratic socialism does not believe capitalism is compatible with freedom, liberty, equality, etc. So the long term aim would be to replace capitalism with a socialist economy. I'm not sure that there are any countries truly practicing this these days, although in the 60s, 70s and 80s, there were a few that tried moving towards this path (before violent coups that largely left military dictators in power as part of cold war proxy battles). Examples, imo, being places like Chile, Burkina Faso, etc.

      And I agree, Bernie and AOC's policies are more in line with social Democrats.
      Jul 24
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      Yeah, that’s a really important point about doc dem vs democratic socialism.
      Jul 24
  • Sounds like you should vote for Joe
    Jul 23 5
    • Flowcast lulll
      Sounds like you should vote for trump
      Jul 23
    • Microsoft > DROP *
      Sounds like you should just not vote.
      Jul 23
    • Microsoft Boba Fett
      Not voting is what got us this idiot in the office in the first place.
      Jul 23
    • Microsoft > DROP *
      Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!
      Jul 23
    • Target / Cust. Srv. tmDe33
      Twirl towards freedom 🙏
      Jul 23
  • Oath LxSY42
    A real far left party would be advocating for land and wealth to be siezed and redistributed. There are no actual extreme leftist politicians or parties in the American mai stream. The overton window has been cranked so far to the right by the extremists on that side that really normal, widely accepted and very common policies are treated as if they were radical. If you think there is a far left in the US, you have been lied to and you need to get out of your media bubble.
    Jul 23 24
    • Amazon brwl34
      So you’re stating that the cash in my bank account isn’t my property? Whose property is it then?
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Okay Amazon. Your cash is your property. Explain to me how a mob is going to get at it? Where is this mob idea from?
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft pJcW86
      Just fyi you're arguing with someone who thinks taxes is theft (but still uses said services) and government services is socialism.
      Jul 24
    • Amazon brwl34
      The mob votes for politicians who will use force to take it from you. This can be done through the IRS and noncompliance will result in gunmen showing up at your door to grab it from you (or take you away).
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Thanks for the heads up Microsoft.
      Amazon, coooool.
      Jul 24
  • Zillow Group ipoop
    Tlaib, not talib and she's not running for president. I haven't heard Democratic candidates bash Israel, though their language towards Israel has certainly gotten a lot more measured, which is better than blindly supporting a foreign country at all costs.

    Also, reparations. Repatriations would be sending black people back to Africa ;) spelling matters sometimes.

    Healthcare for illegal immigrants - well, it just makes financial sense. They'll go to emergency room anyway, and guess who foots the bill. Makes more financial sense to let them access health care so they don't have to. Just like it makes sense for companies to offer incentives for people to be healthy, so that their health insurance premiums don't go up
    Jul 23 13
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Lol, I missed that. Touche!
      Jul 24
    • Amazon brwl34
      So your argument is that illegals who commit identity fraud are helping the country because they most likely pay taxes? I’m not sure that a majority of them do this; but if they do then we should have more than enough data to track them down and deport them (after a stay in the big house for their crimes).
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Many illegal immigrants pay tax despite not having a social security number: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-federal-taxes-an-explainer/
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

      "A 2007 review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that "over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."
      Jul 24
    • Zillow Group ipoop
      No, my argument is that, even if you overlook the morality and ethics of providing healthcare access to people who are de-facto residents, there is plenty of economic arguments in favor of doing so.
      It's a different story if people are hopping the border, getting free healthcare, and leaving immediately. Free healthcare for tourists, legal or illegal is definitely a stupid idea. But I think the argument for is aimed at the people who don't have the right paperwork but have been in this country for years with no intent to leave
      Jul 24
  • LinkedIn cd-
    Compare to the rest of the world, our far left is actually the center.
    Jul 23 6
    • LinkedIn cd-
      Prove me wrong
      Jul 23
    • Microsoft hkbest
      Ur "rest of the world" merely means north Europe.
      Jul 23
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Also most of the *democratic* countries in Africa, Asia and South America. But hey.
      Jul 23
    • Microsoft 💢gahla🎷
      Interestingly enough I don't see many Americans trying to go anywhere else. While the tide is big the other way. 🤔
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Promise it's not because of the lack of healthcare. You also don't see many Western Europeans trying to come here, unless it's for something like tech.

      Also, that's a strawman argument.
      People in wartorn countries want to come to America! Must be because of our lack of healthcare!
      Jul 24
  • Monster unholy!
    Biden is actually conservative. Let that one marinate. 🤯
    Jul 23 9
    • Amazon brwl34
      I don’t care about climate change. Just providing a root cause to the ongoing problem, as perceived by people who care.
      Jul 23
    • Amazon and win
      Every other Western country has free healthcare. No doubt because they aren't wasting money on 14 aircraft carriers.
      Jul 24
    • Amazon brwl34
      Aircraft carrier are way more important to protect the overall country’s health. Without them we could get invaded by sea.
      Jul 24
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Seriously?
      Jul 24
    • Amazon and win
      Nobody is going to invade the US by sea. What a nut.
      Jul 24
  • Microsoft idknbd
    Biden is moderate. They are all fairly moderate, actually.
    Jul 23 8
    • Microsoft 💢gahla🎷
      Are they just lying then? Nothing new if they do, but the scale is Olympic.
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Both Warren and Sanders are fairly moderate
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft budala 🤺
      ^^^ Wiping out student loans, at about 2 trillion price tag? Slavery repatriations? Plus the Medicare for all and for Illegals? You call this moderate?! 🤦
      Jul 24
    • Credit Karma EllisDee25
      ^yes these are moderate reforms that (aside from reparations) would have been more or less mainstream before the mid 80s or early 90s.

      The DNC has gone right since the mid 80s so what you are seeing as “far left” is really just liberalism re-emerging.

      And the party is still largely to the right of its voting base.
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Yeah, that's moderate. You've lived in your right wing bubble so long you've forgotten what where center is
      Jul 24
  • Oracle
    not_larry

    Oracle

    PRE
    Amazon
    not_larrymore
    It’s a conspiracy to re-elect Trump.
    Jul 23 0
  • Google gentig
    Far left == Far right == BS
    Jul 23 0
  • Noodle.ai waitwhut
    Not a Kamala fan, but how is busing far left?
    Jul 23 14
    • Noodle.ai waitwhut
      Well the problem was schools that white kids went to received more than double the funding than for black schools. In some cases the number of white kids per school was less than that at black schools
      Jul 24
    • Noodle.ai waitwhut
      Also teachers and other school employees took their jobs more seriously when there were white kids in their schools
      Jul 24
    • Salesforce op
      I doubt this is the case. May be it was at some point but now it is reversed as I remember
      Jul 24
    • Noodle.ai waitwhut
      we are talking about 40 years ago.
      Jul 24
    • Noodle.ai waitwhut
      There were intangible effects of busing like people becoming less racist because they came to know the lives of people of other races especially at a young age
      Jul 24
  • Netflix / Eng Breakinbad
    Health care for illegal immigrants is not far left? Or maybe we should just call them traitors. They are prioritizing the benefits of aliens over US citizens and legal residents, using money from US tax payers nonetheless.
    Jul 23 2
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      In most of the world, health care doesn't bankrupt you 👍
      I love how you write this as if candidates are suggesting shoving citizens out if the hospital line in order to allow illegal immigrants access. Come on. Do you seriously think that that's what this is about?
      Jul 23
    • Netflix / Eng Breakinbad
      Yes, since citizens need to pay premium to get health care. Are Americans second class citizens or what?
      Jul 23
  • Credit Karma / Data
    SrfrBoi69

    Credit Karma Data

    PRE
    Google
    SrfrBoi69more
    Why you so stereotypical?
    Jul 23 0
  • Amgen Fin4eng
    Every other country in the world has the idea of sovereign borders other than the US. I also think the wealth tax being proposed should be unconstitutional as its double taxation and the only wealth tax we currently have are estate taxes. I just heard the $20 minimum wage raised and now waiting to hear $25. It’s a race to give away the most stuff.

    Imo Buttigieg is liberal/far left but seems to have rational behind it. So if there’s no moderate then he would be next best
    Jul 23 7
    • Microsoft idknbd
      cause it sounds like you've bought into far right conspiracy theories
      Jul 24
    • Amgen Fin4eng
      Which part above? Immigration laws or the wealth tax? How is it a conspiracy theory when they are true statements.

      We do not currently have yearly wealth tax in the US, it’s only income tax and estate taxes and it strikes me as fundamentally wrong.

      If this is put into place then in 5 years every rich persons wealth will drop 10% and in 10 years 20% for no reason other than they are rich. What will that do in terms of forcing stock sales (company founders) or lose of company ownership control or potential layoffs for those who don’t have liquid wealth. At least the alternative 70-80% income tax rates being proposed is just returning to high tax rates of the past and on income and not changing the overall paradigm to tax on yearly wealth.
      Jul 24
    • Amazon SlhS10
      Very few paid 70% tax rates because you used to be able to get more deductions. The deductions were greatly reduced when federal tax rates were lowered.
      Jul 24
    • Amgen Fin4eng
      Agreed. But I’d rather see a 80% tax rate than a tax on wealth if those are the alternatives. A wealth tax feels unfair and will have a lot of unintended consequences
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Nothing that taxes regular income will be effective because the rich don't have regular income.
      Jul 24
  • Netflix / Eng Breakinbad
    Democrats have a lot of policies on how to spend the money but nothing on how to get it. Of course they always raise tax and increase national debt in practice.
    Jul 23 5
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Didn't Trump just raise the debt more than another US President in history?
      Jul 24
    • Netflix / Eng Breakinbad
      Not true. Debt to GDP ratio has been steady since Obama left office.
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Nobody is talking about debt/gdp so not sure why you brought it up unless just trying to deflecr
      Jul 24
    • Netflix / Eng Breakinbad
      Because debt to GDP is more important than absolute number.
      Jul 24
    • Microsoft idknbd
      Stop trying to change the subject
      Jul 26
  • Google yAklwd
    Wow, all you people referencing other countries are missing OP’s point. The election is in this country and in this country Trump won the last election...
    Jul 23 3
    • #BernieWouldHaveWon and he was to the left of Clinton
      Jul 23
    • Google yAklwd
      I think OP is taking about the real world where Bernie lost the election he decided to compete in to Clinton...
      Jul 23
    • The real world where Bernie had the support of Trump voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012? In those pesky swing states?
      Jul 23
  • Axon axon
    What gun reform are you talking about, OP? What's there to "reform"?
    Jul 24 2
    • Amazon SlhS10
      More incremental controls until it's practically impossible to legally acquire them. Probably no more legally attaching a vertical foregrip to a self loading rifle because that makes them an "assault" rifle. Eventually, all self-loading long guns will be an "assault" weapon, then handguns, then pump action shotguns, and then we'll be the UK.
      Jul 24
    • Zillow Group ipoop
      Why not just introduce a requirement for gun manufacturers to have a finger print/pin code access to the gun? Seems like that would solve a lot of issues... Only the owner of the gun can actually use it.
      Jul 24
  • Google eK8vhD
    You're thinking of Mitt Romney OP.
    Jul 23 1
    • Ripple UoNS08
      Yes, actually. Mitt Romney would be great.
      Jul 23
  • Microsoft 🐰bunyqueen
    Only in murikkka you call them ideas stoopid!
    Jul 23 0
  • ICF / Consultant ERCOT
    Cuz the the majority of the voters have become convoluted. I mean the ppl who got Trump elected have divided the voting population so much that nobody now thinks that a "normal" candidate can win. Kinda like "normal" issues have gone out fashion, of sorts :D
    And of course, I don't think the issues you mentioned are far left but still, just saying...
    Jul 23 0
  • Apple purifier
    OP seem to parrot Sean Hannity word by word.
    Jul 24 0