10 yoe, backend dev, Got offers from Atlassian, eBay, Apple, Facebook, Netflix. Torn between N, F.

Dec 1, 2019 62 Comments

Fb tc - 205/600/100, 15% bonus
N tc - 480k, 5% options

Netflix pros - almost similar work, under 30 mins commute, no bs culture mostly (though it can vary with team).

Cons - although I am impressed by most aspects of the culture, the thought of being laid off without notice makes me a bit uncomfortable. I am on H1b and think the interview process these days is too painful to be done again and at a short notice esp once you have kids. I feel that may prevent me from enjoying during my off time such as weekends and I may not be completely there for my family.

Facebook pros - can move to any team, get to do different work that what I have been doing. Not many companies give you that opportunity at a senior level. Of course I would have to perform but that's the case everywhere. Also fb might be a bit more recession, visa issues proof than Netflix.

Cons - commute is around 1 hour, wlb may be bad based on the team I end up in.

Summary - I value career growth, learning, stability. I know pip is common at Facebook too, so that ways it's not much different from netflix. Only thing is you may get some time to plan your next move.

Based on the above, I am mostly leaning towards Facebook. Am I overlooking or overthinking about any aspects here?

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TOP 62 Comments
  • NetApp szDt00
    At Facebook you can help spread hate and disinformation. May even swing the next election, again. In terms of impact, you can’t really beat that.
    Dec 1, 2019 4
    • Apple carmax
      I lol’d 😂
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook
      fb2019

      Facebook

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      fb2019more
      We should ban internet entirely as so many people spread hate, fake news etc.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • NetApp szDt00
      That’s a stupid argument that could only come from a Facebook employee. Your argument is like humans hate so let’s eliminate them.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Qualtrics vorticon
      He is purposely using a bad argument to satirize your argument
      Dec 2, 2019
  • Netflix
    IP-

    Netflix

    PRE
    Google, Amazon
    IP-more
    If you care of engineering quality and people around you, Netflix is not the place. Most engineers are average at best and engineering excellence is hard to find. Bad coding and design practices are common.

    Culture doc is a bunch of lies, every manager has their own interpretation of it and is not consistently applied. Managers are given too much power (eg keeper test) and ICs have none (no reverse keeper test). There are no pulse checks on leadership, you have no way to provide feedback anonymously, and retaliation from managers are common.

    For example, Netflix culture promotes flat organization, then why there are levels on management side? There is zero growth for ICs but promotions happen on management positions - manager, Director, VP etc. There are many such examples of Netflix hypocrisy.

    Also, I wouldn’t suggest Netflix on H1B. I know the $ is tempting but I would take FB if I was offered a role.
    Dec 1, 2019 10
    • Netflix / Eng believable
      I don't agree on the IC no growth part. Yes, you remain a senior software engineer, but as your impact grows, your TC grows too. I think this helps organic growth rather than fighting for the limited spots promotion between the peers like FG are doing.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Netflix
      IP-

      Netflix

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      Google, Amazon
      IP-more
      Higher levels in IC has clearly defined responsibilities- cross-org projects, mentoring and coaching other members, setting long term vision for the org and company - all that is missed in Netflix.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Netflix / Eng believable
      You have that level of impact and you can get that level of compensation. There's no point of defining criteria and trying to meet them in a way that doesn't really benefit the company overall. There are so many projects getting unnecessarily bloated because some IC need that visibility for promotion in other companies.

      Here is my story. I showed my boss Google L6 responsibilities and levels.fyi TC. Told him I clearly belong to this level. And he happily put me at the top of that band.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Netflix
      IP-

      Netflix

      PRE
      Google, Amazon
      IP-more
      That’s the problem, people can BS and convince their incompetent managers just like you did, and then collect a fat paycheck. I challenge you to get an actual Google L6 offer 😂
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Netflix / Eng believable
      Maybe, but BS is a skill too. To be honest, I earn more from the stock options invested than salary earned here, no way Google could have paid L6 that much
      Dec 2, 2019
  • Facebook elend
    Here’s what I would do :
    I would join FB. FB offer is top of E5, which means you are being paid very close to a new E6 but with E5 expectations.
    Since you want all of stability, learning and career growth, I would try to do them one by one. I will start with stability: which means I will shop around a lot during boot camp to find a team where the work is as close to something you have successfully done before. This means when you take their tasks, you are able to go through them faster than expected. This will tell you that if you join that team, you won’t have much trouble ramping up and getting started. Once you are comfortable with technical stack, I would throw in some late hours and weekends initially until I build good reputation among teammates and managers (trust me, it’s very important and will help you in long run). In the process you will also successfully ship a project or two.
    Now that you are comfortable, getting good ratings, it’s time to prioritize other two. Look for learning opportunities and career growth inside your team first. Your manager will support you. If they don’t, you can always look for a new team after 1.5-2 year timeframe (changing teams earlier is not recommended but possible).
    This strategy has worked out for me so far but YMMV. Good luck
    Dec 1, 2019 3
    • Facebook elend
      And choose a team which allows WFH flexibility. You probably wouldn’t do it much while ramping up but once ramped up, you can WFH even 2-3 days a week or work from a different office in Bay Area which is closer to your home.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      Thanks for your inputs. This is indeed helpful. I am wondering what is the usual number of hours people work as l5 to get MA or higher. I understand it can vary with teams but just trying to get a sense of the average work hours given my commute is going to take a good chunk of my time. I may only end up getting 7 hrs in office. I am ready to put in some extra hours as you said but that should be to do over and above what I need to do. Else I will be in the catch up mode forever.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook elend
      Hard to say. But if I have to guess, 10 years of experience and multiple offers suggest to me that you are technically strong, if you don’t choose a particularly bad team 7 hours a day should get you MA easily. Some people also get work done on the shuttle.

      Also note that you can get plenty of ramp up time without worrying about PSC, if you plan it right. Say you join company in Feb and choose a team in March end, you get by default MA at the end of your first PSC cycle (Jan-June), there is some limit for min number of days to qualify for PSC participation.
      Dec 1, 2019
  • Cisco fieiwnsow
    Depends on if you think the extra $130k/year with N is worth it if you’re laid off for a short bit.

    If you’re this talented, I wouldn’t sweat it to find another job if you needed. I’d vote N just because the TC is way higher with less commute.
    Dec 1, 2019 3
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      Fb tc will be around 410k including the 15% bonus. Edited the post.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • New mvLu74
      FB is nearly 500K the first year (and should be the same in subsequent years since they give refreshers)? Not sure if Netflix has refreshers.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Netflix bloodline
      There is no refreshers since salary is all cash
      Dec 1, 2019
  • Netflix Lovers
    Go with FB, especially on H1B. Better internal mobility when you want to switch teams. This is huge for learning long term. Talent density is shockingly bad at Netflix.
    Dec 1, 2019 6
    • Netflix QqCO52
      I am on H1B, my life is EZ, no pressure at all.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • eBay WTgQ16
      What’s your secret ? :)
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Netflix QqCO52
      No secret. Just think about how to be a good engineer or what kind of engineer you like if you are the manager or you want to work with. Technical part there is no fancy thing, and the workload I believe is much lower than FB, which is not a problem at all.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      That's rational approach. But I guess with so many variables for us on H1b, it's an added pain if one does get impacted.
      Dec 2, 2019
    • eBay WTgQ16
      But how about reorgs where teams are let go? Does that happen in tech at Netflix ?
      Dec 2, 2019
  • OpenTable l33tmonkey
    Congratulations 🎉 do you mind sharing your preparation strategy Leetcode count, System design etc. I'm in the similar experience range and plan to interview shortly.
    Dec 1, 2019 1
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      Mostly leetcode, system design videos on YouTube. You can read the company blogs to get idea about architecture.
      Dec 1, 2019
  • Facebook elend
    What’s your FB level? It’s important context as WLB will depend heavily on that.
    Dec 1, 2019 7
    • Facebook elend
      Nvm, it’s E5. Didn’t notice the bonus percentage
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      Right l5
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      How's the wlb for l5 in general? I am not looking to coast but all the blind posts about stress is bit too much I think
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook elend
      The blind posts about the stress and stuff are definitely biased and/or team specific in my opinion. I believe E5 is a great place to be, you don’t have the pressure of getting fired due to non terminal level and no pressure of org wide impact / vague expectations at E6.
      At E5, if you are technically good and experienced, you should be able to get a meets all relatively comfortably. Even if you get a meets most once in a while the chances of bouncing back are very good.
      And manager matters a lot. Good thing is that you have the option to choose a good manager during boot camp.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook elend
      I think you have a great opportunity here. You need to give it a shot and see for yourself how you like it.
      At Blind you can find people talking shit about almost every company.
      Dec 1, 2019
  • Facebook Dequhs
    Congratulations, both good places to work.

    Overall, the answer depends on what you are looking for going forward. Career growth? Stability? Better WLB? Facebook is highly performance based - you can learn and grow fast, get promoted fast, and relatively stable as a company. On the other hand, it could be painful if you are not a effective worker and not good at time management/efficiency. Although you need that everywhere, it is just ever more painful at fb.
    Dec 1, 2019 7
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      Better in terms of stocks right? I guess there is no room in base or joining bonus.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook Dequhs
      Yup, stocks.
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Amazon / Eng
      zipza

      Amazon Eng

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      Amazon
      zipzamore
      What is refresher?
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Facebook Dequhs
      Additional stocks that you get every year to refresh your grant.
      Dec 5, 2019
    • eBay WTgQ16
      @Dequhs would you recommend fb for better wlb ?
      Dec 23, 2019
  • SmartThings jopfy
    Nope, you are weighing in the options perfectly. Facebook is where you have to go if the other option is Netflix.
    Dec 1, 2019 0
  • Expedia Group / Eng e5menow
    Is FB offer e5 or e6? If it is e5, then go for N; if it is e6; then choose FB
    Dec 1, 2019 3
    • Siemens cMsH53
      OP
      L5, can you elaborate more
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Expedia Group / Eng e5menow
      E5 to e6 is very hard.
      At Netflix everyone's Sr SWE. So nothing is really preventing you to grow your responsibility or salary
      Dec 1, 2019
    • Facebook elend
      I would have said the other way. The offer is high end of E5, so E6 expectations without the monetary benefits make no sense.
      E5 to E6 is hard and takes time, but who’s in a rush? Just try to get it in 4 years so you start getting the bigger E6 refreshers by the time your initial grant runs out and your total comp doesn’t drop.
      Dec 1, 2019

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