Hi Blind, I recently interviewed at Amazon for a Frontend Engineer position on AWS team in SF. I was evaluated as a strong SDE II (L5). The recruiter got back to me, saying that they would like to move forward with an offer. However, they are expecting me to give the first number of what my expectations are here. I am well-versed in software engineering negotiation literature and made several strong arguments. This included "happy to have a market-competitive offer based on the level that I was interviewed for", "you know the Amazon bands better than me", and "at this moment, I'm open-minded". The recruiter was polite, but firm. She said, "do your research, talk to your friends, and I'll reach out again to get your number". Related, I have offers from other companies coming in. They haven't given numbers yet. We're in the process of chatting with the hiring managers and offer construction. A. What are my next steps here? B. If I should give the anchoring number, how should I frame that conversation? What does that number look like? YOE: 7.5 TC: 190
Any negotiation class will tell that is better that you set the anchor (assuming you're not a moron and set it right). Just ask for 30% above whatever you would be happy settle for.
Yeah this is a non-issue. Give the recruiter a number 30 - 50% higher than the average listed on levels.fyi for the level. Bam, you're done.
The argument to not give the first number is because what if what I want is much lower than what they are willing to give.
What is the rationale for her to push the candidate for the first number? She encourages research to be done, so presumably she ultimately expects a market-value anchor number from you...which as a recruiter, she should know already. Is this some retention-boosting tactic? Seems like a waste of time.
I wonder if it's because in the software engineering world, there is such a wide range of both salary knowledge and compensation. For example, if I was a non-Blinder or new to the industry, I may ask for something like 200k which is a slam-dunk win for Amazon. On the flip side, if she comes with 200k, when I wouldn't even consider anything lower than 275k, that could come off poorly? Yeah, I'm not sure.
it’s pretty straightforward, giving your number and having them shoot for/match it is most streamlined because it takes a lot of coordination to put together an offer. neither party needs to play games. wherever u go, don’t stress over a few k and get down to work, for the best prospects long term
The best number you can give is the one that you give them as a competing offer. Heavily research the range that Amazon pays for a level 5. This is easy to find on the web at places like paysa, etc.
Let them talk first. They expect you to negotiate, so they will go lower, but not propose something to piss you off. Then add 25%. Most likely they will reduce the RSUs and increase the yearly salary. I wouldn't mind about the stocks because it's very unlikely that you will be there 4 years. Even better, in the meanwhile try to get an offer from another tech company. They will add extra 15% on the top of the 25%. The first one happened to me,the second to a colleague. They have a range for each level so just try to get to the max of yours.
Yup, course I've been searching levels and Blind. It seems that there are folks that have TC upwards of 350k. Also, I would need to factor in the fact that Amazon has a backloaded vesting plan.
Amazon has a limit for SDE 2, just ask for above that limit. They’ll say “sorry that’s above our limit, but we’ll give you x” where x is usually close to limit. Don’t tell them you know that’s the limit tho, just say you did research and found what others were being paid.
If you think you are in the top 5% skill range of an L5 ask for top 5% of the levels.fyi band if not top of range. If you are top 20%, ask for top 20%.
Better yet, just ask for 20% higher than the top of the range regardless of what you feel your skills are 🤷♂️
Hawaian knows his shit. Your self perceived skills are irrelevant
An L5 top of the range SDE at Amazon is around 235k in Seattle. Add 15-20% more for NYC and Bay. Use this to your advantage - give about 20% above the range.
“You know your compensation packages better than I do. What is the salary range for the role?”
Yes, trust me - I tried. She was basically like "Let me tell you how it works." I want to be explicit though -- she did not come off rude, she was firm.
If you are in CA, she broke the law.