Can a current or ex-Amazon SDM give details about how the Pivot process works wrt team size, timeline etc ? I'm not asking about what happens when a candidate is put into devlist/pivot. That information is available on blind already. But the other interesting pieces of info, for example would be - what time of the year would this happen (post-OLR or any time) - how do they come up with who should be in pivot across the org? - I hear some people are on dev list for 6 months+. Is it the manager's decision when to move them to Pivot (from devlist) ? Ideally, a description of timeline of the performance discussions for the entire year would be great info to know. I heard some SDMs were forced to PIP even those they thought were good SDEs. I'm not very interested in the case of pivoting a genuine low performer (which can happen any time) but the other case.
A friend of mine was put on that list after getting a new manager. From top to bottom in matter of a week. That didn’t seem to be tied to any schedule.
Pip in Amazon is really weird. A friend of mine was put in dev plan becaus apparently there's a quota that a certain percentage of people under an L8 need to be put under dev plan.
Sure. Current SDM here. When someone joins the team, in the first few months I have several conversations with them regarding expectations. What constitutes the bar, what exceeds the bar for their level and what meets the bar at the next level. What I expect from them day to day and in their role (e.g don’t miss meetings you’re required in, show up to work, etc.). Then, as time goes on, I check in with them regularly and provide feedback on what they’re doing well and what they’re not doing well on as it relates to those expectations. Then I give specific, actionable, timely feedback on where they can improve. If someone isn’t meeting expectations and after several months of no improvement with feedback then I start documenting my feedback and expectations. My feedback goes from verbal to formal. I’ll spend more time coaching the individual to help them improve (e.g try to understand why they only show up to the office once a week and miss every team meeting after being directly asked to attend). If their performance continues to decline or there is no improvement with coaching then I’ll enter them into the dev list and formalize the documentation with HR. I’ll do everything I can to help them turn things around. But after 60 days and there still fail to meet expectations (the same ones they know about from day one) and there are no options left then will work with HR to start a pivot. So time of year doesn’t really matter. But there are mechanisms in place to force managers to identify and coach low performers since it’s a lot of work and some managers would rather just ignore problem individuals. The manager doesn’t come up with who should be in pivot. It’s a pain in the ass process that no manager wants to do. But sometimes someone just refuses to show up to work and you have to do something about that.
Thanks! But I'm interested more in the forced URA target of 10%
Yeah similar to what I said above, the only pip I've seen first hand the developer definitely deserved it and had been slacking basically since day 1 and got away with it for over a year.
I was put on it for expressing interest in changing team! There are many more similar stories here on blind.
You were likely already in the dev list, you can't put someone in pivot without the prior track record of failing to improve.
This. There are so many stories because people who are failing and on the dev list are the most likely candidates for switching teams. If you were happy and doing well on a team, why would you leave? If you want to avoid the situation, before you get ready to leave a team, put in 200% effort for 6 months. It makes sure you can leave, gives you a ton of room to negotiate and leaves behind a good impression on the team you’re leaving. Building bridges and a network along the way. So often I see people slack off when they’re going to transfer. Because they don’t care anymore. And the slacking puts them onto the dev list.
so it’s hard
Yup, it takes up tons of time and energy. Every time I dev list someone it's with the goal of coaching them off of it and to trend towards promotion!
How do you identify red flags? Are managers required to give very clear actionable and timeline based goals to achieve during 1:1s? My 1:1 with my managers have been okay in terms that he doesn’t point out specific things that went wrong and things that I definitely should focus on. I’m the only person in the role that I am in and I constantly feel I’ll be put in PIP.
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Jeez what’s with all the Amazon PIP posts? HOW many people does amazon put on PIp? Why hire them in the first place??
Hiring and firing, because the model works fine for Amazon
Yeah being here I gotta say it feels a bit bizarre to see reqs for new head count while a pip is being handed out at the same time. Like, you're telling me we're short staffed enough to hire another engineer, but due to the company culture you're forced to let one go? Particularly when the competition to hire developers is so high amongst companies.