Apple EPM vs. Google Program Manager

Dec 5, 2019 23 Comments

I'm currently an L4 Program Manager at Google and a recruiter from Apple reached out to me about an Engineering Program Manager (EPM) role at Apple. I have an interview with the hiring manager next week. It would be for a Software team at Apple. I like Google as a company, but don't love my team, so I would switch teams regardless. Any insights about how they compare or pros/cons would be greatly appreciated!

Specifically, I'm wondering:
-How technical are EPMs at Apple? I took Intro to CS in college, but haven't actually coded since.

-What level should I expect as an EPM? I've been at L4 for 1.5 years (3 total years of experience, all at Google), and I'm on track to get L5 promo within the next cycle. Also, the job description actually had a minimum of 5+ years as a Program Manager (but hiring manager is interested anyway)

-What should I target salary-wise? It seems that EPMs at Apple are paid much higher than program managers at Google. It looks to be more on par with Technical Program Managers (TPM) at Google, but I'm not currently a TPM so I don't have a great reference point.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. I already posted this in the Google section but I figured it'd be good to get input from people at Apple too.

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TOP 23 Comments
  • Google
    AIMLOK

    Google

    BIO
    I once served 5TB
    AIMLOKmore
    EPM uses the ICT category at Apple, which goes up to ICT5, afaik. At 3 YOE, I would find it hard to believe that you would be leveled at anything more than ICT3.
    Dec 5, 2019 9
    • Apple Icml2017
      L5 at Google usually maps to ICT4 at Apple. I have seen ICT4 at Apple being offered L4 at Google.
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Assuming they have >5 YOE, I feel like ICT4 -> L4 is definitely a downgrade. Haha even my MBA intern fresh out of MBA got an L5 offer
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      At google, I think it sometimes comes down to how well you interview (unfortunately). Is that true at Apple? I.e. if I have super strong interviews, would it be able to push me up to an ICT4?
      Dec 5, 2019
    • VMware ssrc
      I am sorry, I should have clarified that I work for Google now. I have taken my share of GCA rounds for eng PgMs over the last 1 year and hence was a bit surprised. I still have a lot to learn in how G operates 😃
      Good luck for your Q1 perf
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Oh, nice! Haha and thank you-- good luck to you in Q1 as well! Depending on how things go with interviews, I'm hoping I won't be around long enough for it to matter LOL
      Dec 5, 2019
  • Apple EPMs just run meetings, at most prepare some presentations, that’s it. So dive here if u want to enjoy life and make good money
    Dec 5, 2019 5
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Haha, to be honest that's pretty much what I do as a PgMs at Google too. Sounds like I'd just be getting paid more at Apple, which is a pretty sweet deal.
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Quick follow up: Any insight on how leveling works? What level is typical for someone with 3 YOE?
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Amazon compare
      ICT3. But Apple doesn’t tell you the level. Just get a good raise in your TC and you should be good to go.
      Dec 5, 2019
    • Since you are coming from Google, you might get an IC4 offer.
      Dec 6, 2019
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Haha that would be ideal! I’m going to follow up with the recruiter and hopefully they’ll consider it 🤞🏼
      Dec 6, 2019
  • Facebook solidmeh
    Just ask for ICT4 TC obviously and chill. Either you get that, a high ICT3 offer which matches your expectations, or you still work at google. I don't see a losing scenario.
    Dec 6, 2019 0
  • which team? it really depends on team. Workload varies
    Dec 10, 2019 2
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      It’s with the Apple Health team. Any insights about that team?
      Dec 11, 2019
    • Ah not familiar with health team :(
      Dec 11, 2019
  • Amazon compare
    what is your TC?
    Dec 5, 2019 1
    • Google uXis34
      OP
      Sent you a PM
      Dec 5, 2019
  • AWIP coyolo
    How does one get into Program Management? Just trying to understand.
    Dec 11, 2019 0

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