Busting some myths around HR 1044 with data

Jul 15, 2019 230 Comments

One of the many arguments against HR1044 is that the India GC queue is mostly filled with "low merit" applicants from Indian consultancies that pay far lower salaries and import low skilled Indian tech workers into US.

Did some digging to come up with the following 2 data snapshots about GC filings in 2019. The source of data is mentioned in the respective captions. The first one shows GC applications from India have the third highest average salary after Canada and UK.

The second snapshot is even more compelling. TCS, one of the disliked Indian consultancies (the T in the infamous WITCH acronym) has the fourth highest average salary offer, bested only by Facebook, Google, and Apple. TCS beats the likes of Microsoft, Intel, Amazon, and Oracle pretty comfortably.

What do you think of this data, Blind community, and how does this influence your argument against HR1044?

Busting some myths around HR 1044 with data
Average salary by country of citizenship: source: <a href="http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2019-Green-Card.aspx?T=CT" target="_blank">http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2019-Green-Card.aspx?T=CT</a>
Busting some myths around HR 1044 with data
Average Salary by sponsoring company: Source: <a href="http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2019-Green-Card-Sponsor.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2019-Green-Card-Sponsor.aspx</a>

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TOP 230 Comments
  • Walmart.com 🌲50
    OP
    Thanks to @Acker from Amazon for pointing me to the data source.
    Jul 15, 2019 87
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      Your for loop seems buggy
      Jul 19, 2019
    • Microsoft xJHW17
      acker I hate you so much
      Aug 8, 2019
  • Amazon acker
    2019 is after Trump's America first crackdown. Try 2016 i140 petitions, the backlog of from 2009 to present, not 2019. And the claim ISN'T that no Indians have merit but that the consultants dominate the queue.

    Here's the actual data, for a typical year.
    Jul 15, 2019 26
    • lmao πŸ˜‚
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      @acker let data decide who is paying higher than whom in 2019. Neither u nor I can change USCIS data. I have already posted the data and it says what it says about TCS and Amazon. That's not the point. I genuinely want to listen to your definition of merit, since you have been such a vocal advocate, like many of us, for merit based immigration. If you want to stick wages as the metric, so be it, since by your metric TCS consultants deserve GC more than your engineers. I m happy with that outcome.
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      acker knows everything. Stop arguing against him.
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Amazon acker
      Thanks
      Jul 16, 2019
  • Fitbit gfrog
    Many Indian Consulting Companies forge salary data, the contracting job are by its nature unstable, and the payroll may get discontinued when the contractors switch between projects, do you know how ICC handles it? Do fake 'payrolls', ask employees to repay it and pay for the taxes themselves. Since employees are on H1b and have no grace period left, they have to do whatever are suggested..
    Jul 16, 2019 28
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      😁 @msft - you haven't been following Mr acker's posts in this thread, have you?
      Jul 18, 2019
    • Amazon acker
      oMA is correct and you are wrong again, no one said this would only apply to Indians.

      I'm ok with including the small number of consultants who can actually get paid the market rate. I just don't want people who can get market rate waiting behind people who can't.
      Jul 18, 2019
  • Walmart.com 🌲50
    OP
    Very happy with the discussion here so far. More happy because the desperation of the opposers, evident by the lengthy posts, has exposed their hypocrisy even more. Time to compile a lengthy post of my own with some interesting whimpering points from the naysayers -

    One bright kid from Microsoft complains " why do you judge people based on the salary ". This same bright kid, and his pals, profess that Indian consultants are low merit and abuse the system. Ask them how do they know it? Low salary!

    The super data savvy Amazon guy, who proudly posted old irrelevant data all over blind, secretly hoping no one ever finds the latest data, has found a reason to trust and s*ck up to this new data - why ? Because he thinks it's Trump. This fellow now complains about farm workers and nurses lowering the salaries of other countries compared to India, of course without concrete data. We can't blame him because the same data source, when sorted for the top 50 job occupations for 2018, shows farm workers and nurses at 187 applications, and it's so low in 2019 that it doesn't even show up in top 50 so far. But, no he thinks that non existent GC occupations are what is responsible for India's avg salary to be nearly same as that of France, UK, Russia China Germany etc.
    Jul 16, 2019 7
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      Saying "you don't" twice doesn't make it any less false than the first time.
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Amazon acker
      I explained in detail where you failed
      Jul 16, 2019
  • Amazon acker
    OP didn't realize each year page was showing only that years petitions and didn't understand his 2019 data is only for post Trump 2019 petitions when in reality the priority date for India is 2009...

    Hilarious!

    Thread will be deleted in 3, 2, 1...
    Jul 15, 2019 8
    • Amazon acker
      I know a lot about the process. For example, I know that every year India gets far more visas than the country cap due to Spillover, actually more than it's 17% share of world population, and yet the priority date advances by only a couple of months a year.

      2018 in first through third preference excluding "other workers" India got 21113 visas out of 117,100 visas which is actually 18% of the total whereas India is only 17% of the world population.

      By the way if you give India 85% of the visas as hr1044 proposed that's only 4 to 5 times faster (actually 4.7 times) so if the queue is really 100 years that drops it to 21 years. Meanwhile the queue actually grows all that time because R.O.W. still submits applications.

      Either the India lobby's math on the size of the backlog is wrong or the claim that this bill reduces the queue is wrong (hint: the latter).

      Note that I excluded farm labor and religious workers which is why it's 117k and not 144k.

      Data here:

      https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-statistics/annual-reports/report-of-the-visa-office-2018.html
      Jul 15, 2019
    • Microsoft fantasiA
      Acker this guy is a troll. None of his replies respond to the actual comments. Just childish name-calling. Lets just ignore him. He is a net negative to this society. Shame on you, OP.
      Jul 16, 2019
  • Microsoft / Mgmt anon-soft
    Dude, why do you bring up this topic on blind. Are you friggin nuts? Do you really think you’re going to convert those against the bill? Do something useful like joining a community that is actually trying to get it passed instead of useless research that organisations like CATO have already done a long time ago.
    Jul 15, 2019 4
    • Microsoft / Mgmt anon-soft
      Just search for HR 1044 in blind and you’ll see what I mean
      Jul 15, 2019
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      I completely agree with you. But will be interesting to see the responses. Just for 🍿
      Jul 15, 2019
  • Apple MClayton
    I've definitely noticed that people who are against the bill use cherry-picked data (eg. Showing some random past year instead of the latest data, or creating charts without providing any methodology of where the numbers came from).
    Jul 15, 2019 1
    • Amazon acker
      2019 is a cherry picked year. It is the only year in the data where Trump's crackdown on the consulting firms was in full effect. Pick any other year from 2010 to 2018, namely the years the backlog grew.

      Here's 2017:
      Jul 15, 2019
  • Microsoft / Eng HINs46
    They've been staying here longer, therefore the higher avg wage. Not because that they are better to begin with.
    US immigration law is s**t, I agree. But fixing a s**t with another, and asking ROW who have zero liability to pay for it, that's ridiculous.
    Jul 16, 2019 7
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      @acker the first paragraph made sense. In the second one you are back to being you. 😁
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Amazon acker
      If we are bringing in unskilled people they are all basically of equal merit. The only potentially beneficial thing that might differentiate them is a different background or viewpoint.

      In any case we've agreed on prioritizing merit where we can objectively identify it.
      Jul 16, 2019
  • Walmart.com 🌲50
    OP
    Btw, I didn't know, our Mr Acker here has a big fan club. One full blind thread dedicated to him: https://us.teamblind.com/s/dUU8nvts
    Jul 16, 2019 6
    • Amazon acker
      OP of that post eventually admitted it wasn't me if you read the comments but obnoxiously failed to apologise. It was "MadBirddy" who posted those things.

      Typical hr1044 supporter resorting to vile personal attack because hr1044 is indefensible.
      Jul 16, 2019
    • Walmart.com 🌲50
      OP
      Yeah the 65 opposing House representatives thought so too.
      Jul 16, 2019

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