I am 23 year old. I care about math and CS. Want to work in the industry for another 5 years. Till I am 28. Do an M.S. from 28 to 30. And then apply for a PhD position at good CS universities. Let's say I am L5 (arbitrary) when I quit industry. Will I be able to re-enter industry after the PhD? Will I be able to continue as a senior software dev? Are there companies which have particular roles for PhDs? Could I join Google Research or Microsoft Research without a PhD? Why I want to do a PhD is, I was too dumb [average grades] in high school, so couldn't get into something like Caltech or M.I.T. I am more focused now, and I still idealize these places and wanted to study/research there for a while I have a Bachelor's in Computer Science. And I felt it was not enough. I, no joke, still feel illiterate. YOE: 2 Edit: Insights from this thread. Cons of a PhD: 1. I should really kinda stop hoping I will come up with something truly groundbreaking. Like how people like von Neumann did. I understand that it also doesn't really work like how it used to in the previous century. 2. Industry doesnt give a fuck about PhD (for the most part), as is apparent from this thread. And because I do like the industry, I should stay in it, instead of disappearing for 4-5 years 3. Very low ROI. Opportunity cost. Too narrow. And I admit, kinda an antiquated system. Not very useful in general. 4. Can get reallly sucky if you have a bad advisor etc. 5. Tooo spealized, one solution about some esoteric CS thing. 6. Financial instability, a dealbreaker if you have a family/SO. 7. Can't enjoy life, materialistically speaking. 8. Since want to go back to the industry, I'll miss out on a strong Industry foundation. Pros of a PhD: 1. Some intellectual freedom. 2. Looks cool, IF I get into a good uni. 3. You get to follow your curiosity (which you can even in the industry, I think, although to a lesser degree) 4. More depth of learning (I could be wrong here) 5. Might open doors at certain places. (Lemme know if you have more ideas) Conclusions: Blinders, your insights have been realllly valuable. This is my conclusion, 1. For now, I will focus on doing good work in the industry. 2. Will keep learning/doing CS projects on the side. Will keep reading math/physics for fun. 3. if I get bored of the industry, will do a MS after a couple of years. 4. If someday I feel extremely passionate about a certain sub-field I'll consider doing a PhD. Given how I want to stay in the industry, it doesn't make sense to do a very highly academic degree randomly. 5. And because I care about prestige so much I could do an MBA from a fancy College someday. Till then Imma try to rise up the ranks in the industry. 6. And I do care about learning too so I'll just do a master's or two by myself either online or part time. Or physically in a college when on a sabbatical. Till then will continue to learn math, CS, physics from edX, etc 7. Will try to keep thinking of new ideas to develop, reading cutting edge research and white papers, building new things by myself. Don't need a piece of paper to validate my findings. What someone could do *instead* of a PhD: 1. Self Learning. No one is stopping me from studying Math etc on my own. Doing projects and what not. 2. An MBA 3. Doing independent research and publishing it. 4. Doing a part time master's degree. Or a 1 year Master's in Engineering degree. Maybe multiple part time masters. Like one in math, another in Physics. 5. Doing a PhD after retiring from the industry. 6 Earning lots of $, and travelling around the world for experiences. 7. Going to conferences, meetups. 8. Reading research, if one is so inclined 9. Doing Open Source Projects. Especially ones that align with Interests. 10. Working remotely while travelling the world. Learning, reading. 11. Working at companies which do cutting edge work and rely on research. And solve "hard problems", like CAE companies, etc 12. Reading books, to fullfill the passion. Emailing authors, professors etc if one has newer ideas 13. Taking a one year sabbatical to do a master's at a physical college 14. Doing a professional master's if one wants to network. Or is bored of the industry. Thank you so much again!
Is the concern about going to school school at your age bracket? Or is it more of whether you should work before doing a ph.d?
The work. Will I be able to find work in the industry after the PhD? Will I have to begin my career from scratch? And do colleges accept older PhD students.
Begin from scratch? You’d have 5 years exp plus years of experience in your PhD.. you’ll make bank.. just study something smart like ML or AI. If you study something generic then it might not be worth it
Yes, this plan is possible, and yes, schools will accept a slightly older PhD student. But no, it’s not a good idea. I strongly recommend against doing a PhD. IMO the only people who should do a PhD are those who are absolutely committed to having a career in academia and who have abundant evidence they would be successful at such a career. Doesn’t sound like that’s you.
True I wanna contribute in the industry. I want to do the PhD only fot intellectual reasons I think A desire to get wayyyy better at computer science, basically
It’s very likely that most of what you would study or research in graduate school would be pretty specialized esoterica that wouldn’t make you practically “better at computer science” in any way. Study some textbooks, watch some lectures online, go to some conferences, implement some new project. You can do these things on your own in your free time and they don’t require sacrificing years of your earning potential.
Dont I agree with the commenter above the only people who should do a PhD is because they want to be in academia. I got into top 10 not top 5 phd school and thats why I didnt go. People say a PhD can be a time to just learn things and some people do that but not the best use of your time imo if you can work at a good tech company straight out of school. The only exception to this rule was doing an ML phd but now the field is so oversaturated and slowly the field is becoming so engineerised that you wont need a phd.
Would it be worth it if I could get into MIT or Stanford?
Whats your end goal? Unless you want to be a research scientist or a researcher or in academia dont do it. A lot of folks after a Phd from Mit/Stanford also become quants so if you are excited by it you can do it its still the safest way to be a quant. If you just want to be an swe just dont do it
I did a PhD in physics than switched into being SWE in my early 30's. I had a colleague do something similar to what you're proposing although he was in a different field of engineering (at Intel). It's definitely possible. My advice to you is this. Figure out what you want to do with the rest of your life after your PhD. Be as specific as possible. Then go for a PhD program that will let you do research that is applicable to that work. I didn't read anything in this thread that tells me what you want to do with a PhD aside from "solving truly hard problems," which is very vague. A PhD will give you very deep skills on a very narrow focus of problems, so you will get a lot more out it if you can be precise about what it is you want to do with it and get it is it. I recommend looking at the faculty web pages of CS departments and see what the professors are researching. You can email them to ask about it and let them know your background and career ambitions. Good luck.
I understand. You're right, my ambitions are kinda vague in my head too. Guess I am doing it for the wrong reasons. I think in my mind I am equating MIT etc with 'success' and intelligence Sorry about digressing, but another reason could be my parents are PhDs too, although in biology. And I always felt not good enough, unless I somehow also did groundbreaking research at a fancy university Even tho. I do want to "get better" at math, CS, etc
But yes. Thank you. I will keep your advice in mind. Over the years I will try to figure out exactly what I want to do.
Having been in post-undergrad academia for a decade and now in industry, I would not recommend a PhD unless you want to be in academia. Even in academia it’s lots and lots of brilliant people competing for a few good academic positions so that’s a tough position to be in.
Universities are generally poorer than companies, and so make their own currency (degrees) to have PhD students do the grunt work that professors either don’t want to or don’t have time to do. It’s not a very pleasant pyramid scheme to be in for grad students currently I would say, when the alternative is good CS jobs.
I understand, thaanks!
It sounds more like you want to express some creativity within tech by building or contributing to cutting edge projects. In tech, specifically software, you can do that without a degree. It is a creative field by nature so you would just need to gain competence in the area you’d like and apply it to projects. It’s 2020 not 1920, you can access almost all resources online whether it be textbooks, courses, academic papers, etc. You’d do better studying then creating on your own or within a big company/startup.
You're right. All I want to do is contribute to good stuff I understand!
Are you ok making 30k a year at 30? If you are ok, go for it :)
I have always wanted to get better at computer science and do research. Right now, just out of college, I do want to make money. You know. Hopefully I will have savings by that time and more clarity
I was in same boat during 20s.. That zeal to get better at cs dies with time. Do it now if you can.