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I am a female in tech with an androgenic name. I have often observed I get a decent respect from colleagues as long as we are exchanging emails (especially offshore), but the moment they talk to me and figure out I'm female, they become difficult and condescending. I am also looking to change my job, and I am considering telling people right from the interview stage that my preferred pronoun is "he". So basically, look and dress like a female, but insist on being addressed as "he". What do you think will be the consequences of that? How would you deal with a female colleague who wants to be treated and addressed as a male? ( But use the female restrooms since I'm not getting a sex change done). Just changing my preferred pronoun. This is in SF Bay Area, if it matters.
If the only basis of using the pronoun “he” is to avoid sexism in the workplace, you’re a lunatic.
Reasons please
Because their attitudes changed after they met you. The same thing will happen if you use a pronoun rather than your name. When they meet you, they’ll treat you the same way as they do now.
Are they actually condescending, are did you just spend too much time in SF circles and now see sexism everywhere?
Mediocre men are often sexist. Kinda like people who would spend their time getting paid to work at booking.com and think that sexism is imaginary and something that only happens if you “spend too much time in SF circles”?
I love it when people try to strike back. It means I struck a chord. ☺️
I think you should discuss with your coworkers your perceptions vs changing your pronouns. Changing pronouns does nothing to solve the perceived issue.
People are in denial. I have yet to meet someone who says he is sexist. How would you feel interviewing or working with a female - looking colleague who wants to be addressed as male?
I'd be fine with it but I have trans friends and identify as queer. If you don't force the dialogue nothing will change in the broader community. Changing pronouns is also a way of hiding who you are unless you really identify as male. Similar to female authors that use first initial last name when they author a book. Do you really want to work some place that you can't be your authentic self? Ultimately, changing pronouns will probably make them ostracize you further. If theyre not accepting of a female engineer do you really think having them call you "he/him" will make a difference? Maybe it'll make you feel better for a time but they're still going to treat you poorly.
You will be hated by men, women and other genders alike. Men, cos you are female. Women, coa bitches. And trans people cos they will soon find out you are a poseur.
Hmmm... That's a pretty bad scenario. Would I be better off making friends and a support system, and then changing the preferred pronoun?
No. Don't change your pronoun. You are not motivated by the right reasons. Be who you are and what you are. There is no simple fix to fight subconscious and conscious gender discrimination at work. It is going to be a slow and gradual process.
If you're going to switch pronouns (not that I'd advise it) I'd suggest going for "they". It's... Less drama, in my experience?
I can and do refer to other people as "they". I never thought I can ask others to refer to me as "they". I feel that might require more explanation than "he". A male pronoun might make people assume I am pre - transition or queer. Who uses 'they' for themselves?
I know a couple people in their early twenties who go by "they". It definitely takes a bit of getting used to, but it will probably avoid having people think of you as trans. They'll probably conclude that you're agender. People referring to you in the third person will no longer be suggesting a feminine identity when they talk about you. How easy this would be depends on your age of co-workers. If they're mostly twenties, they'll probably roll with this pretty quickly. If it's forties+ up, it might take a good amount of explanation yeah
I think that your problem is different. Most people are going to hate u if u are almost always right and don’t know how to make them see your point in a way that sounds convincing. They will immediately see u as arrogant. There is no use of being right if most people do not agree with you. You might want to have more empathy. The problem might not be that you are a female but that people perceive u as being arrogant
You might be right. I am often annoyingly "always right" . But other people are wrong, and I am watching them make expensive, time consuming, resource wasting mistakes. What would you suggest I do? When men are right in hind sight, people listen to them the next time. I am ignored over and over. As long as we are discussing over email, people will respond to me respectfully. Eventually, with complex technical topics, we have to set up a time to talk, and boom! It happens as soon as they confirm my name, realize my gender from my voice and have a little stammer from surprise. So it's not anything I said, it's the voice I have. I try to have empathy. I try to ask pertinent questions so they are forced to think things through. Finally I give up and just tell them the right way and the reason for it. Still ignored.
Here is how I think: whoever had a bias towards you, will believe that you are a weirdo. I don't think it will help your purpose.
Sigh! That seems to be a real problem. So, either I'm female or I'm a weirdo. No working around it?
I’m honestly surprised that this sort of attitude exists among the professionals in SF and the valley who are supposed to be paving the way for new generation of professionals.
Virtually every male dominated field treats women like this. It's more subtle in tech than say construction but it's there. The trick is finding a place to work that doesn't support or foster that kind of environment. They do exist.
Veritas, I am surprised too. But upon further introspection, I realized tech industry is dominated by Indians and Chinese. Only two nations in the world who hate women so much that they aborted or killed baby girls by the millions. Millions... Numbers comparable to the holocaust! Not by an individual, but by the entire society. Sons born to such people will never learn to respect women. They grew up hearing around them that their relative or neighbor is going for an abortion because they are expecting a girl child. If a girl child is so useless that she is not even worthy of being born, how is a grown woman worthy of being listened to?
learning humility is very difficult but very worthwhile for your career growth. rather than assuming others are discriminating against you based on gender, try and fix what you can control, which is how you interact with others. your posts come across as quite full of yourself (intellectually) and you need to spend some time to learn more EQ rather than just IQ
Are you a woman? If not, then you're not qualified to insinuate that the discrimination she feels is an 'assumption'. Would you say the same to a black person who feels discriminated against?
Yes because only woman can make reasonable statements.
Change your coworkers, not your pronouns. (Unless you legit want to change your pronouns in which case sure do that too.)
I obviously can't change my coworkers. They will change when they want to
You definitely can. Work with different people.