For people with MBA, please comment if your degree adds any value apart from the prestige to your day to day job. #tech #tesla #techcareer #mba EDIT [Feb 11] - Steve jobs said that "professional management does not work, most of them are bozos". Ref - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQKis2Cfpeo. The key point is that "professional management" aka MBAs who has no domain knowledge or insights does not contribute to innovation. Last decade will not be remembered for any major innovation in software industry (bigdata, containerization, cloud etc gained momentum, but the ideation started a decade before). Last decade has seen a lot of cross-sellings, integrations, cloud-ification, M&As etc and guess what who drives these changes - the MBAs.
Elon is right, but misses a lot of nuance. Here are my experiences with MBAs 1. They provide strong performers in different industries a chance for a fresh start and access to six figure jobs with good companies (typically found mid ranked programs working at middle America F500) 2. They can also be for a reprieve for folks in high burnout industries (Consulting, IB, PE) before they take their next lap to partner or for “exit opps” as they call it (their equivalent to rest and vest, aka 50 or less hours/week, $ over 200k, as the “North Star”) 3. MBAs definitely are overly expensive business training to paraprofessionals who clearly needed the costly lesson (dual MD/MBA & JD/MBA the prime example) who then go on to theoretically open their own practices one day. 4. Another check box for career climbers who can’t get that promo otherwise (again consulting, ib etc. but also F500 lackeys trying to chase that cheese) 5. For Dumbasses who accidentally stumbled their way into a goldmine of low effort, high impact post-MBA roles (this is me)
assuming someone has the skills to do a SWE role, what would be the purpose of an MBA?
IMO a few. 1. International SWE looking to do Product or TPM in US (. I especially if you don’t have FAANG pedigree) 2. Burnt out SWE looking to completely change fields (management consultant, marketing, high finance) 3. Entrepreneurial SWEs prestige chasing (VC most likely). 4. SWEs who can’t quite get over the bump and are looking to move to Product or TPM 5. A SWE who loves people, hates coding, and gets a full ride scholarship. Otherwise I’d generally counsel a SWE to not get an MBA.
He was referring to INTC
I think MBA should not be product managers. Product managers should be somewhat technical as well.
All the MBA PMs I've worked with were great at stealing credit, managing up, and kissing ass. They were horrible at shipping useful products
We have the same problem at Google. Most MBAs are people who switched from other majors to earn the extra bucks. Their only motto is money. They ship shitty features get promoted for landing them, show usage numbers and jump ship (let's face it, it's not mind blowing if your feature is used by 10 million people when the product has 1 billion users already). I want people with technical knowledge as well as people skills to be PMs. I favor TPMs over PMs. There should be very less MBA compared to engineers and TPMs.
Yeah MBA sucks. Everyone keeps shooting hoops while I'm trying to work 🤷♂️
I thought it was funny
Yes the degree needs to be overhauled. There is no reason for people to not get grades, for students to spend most of their time traveling, for such an emphasis on finance and accounting classes, for a focus only on value investing and risk avoidance, for essentially 99% of people who were in a pre-MBA analyst or associate program and now want a post MBA banking and consulting role, for it to just be a haven when the economy is bad. And the schools know this themselves and are working so hard to change image and build relationships with other sectors but it will take decades at best. You don’t have to code but you need to be able to think through how a system works, do basic data queries, understand some of the technical limits to think through scope etc. and an MBA does not teach that. I am only aware of Amazon hiring from MBA programs for pm roles - do others even do that?? Apple takes interns and it’s always so hard to work with them and I’m not aware of a single one that was hired for pm role. Btw I want to say something else - in the 2000s even hedge funds did not want to hire MBAs. They were more attracted to those who to risk and were less conventional. Then hedge funds changed and they started getting more traditional and making more cash from management fees and bringing in the banker types with MBAs who then hired more MBAs.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/harvardmba_indicator.asp
Someone with a top MBA(LBS, HBS, Stanford business school or smth else what is known as top MBA) mind sharing his experience? I see an opportunity of getting an MBA's main purpose is to meet people. Would like to hear any thoughts on that topic
I’m doing a cheap online MBA under $20k (total) so I can put on my resume I have an MBA. And then I have YoE + MBA. We never know when industry needs change. I’m in non-technical role. tc 240k People in my role with MBAs are making 440k so why not pay $20k for an upgrade. Also most recruiters don’t check on school name correctness. So I might went to LSU online but I’ll say it’s USC or Duke MBA. Not ivy but well respected.
Doing an MBA at a T15 school and while the professors are a bit too research oriented, I’d generally say it’s worth it. Have a lot of opportunities to explore entrepreneurship and other topics that I wouldn’t have had if I didn’t do the program.
Unless people are willing to hire PMs from abroad, an MBA will sadly be one of the few options people have to get into the cool startup market that is SV. I don’t care about the TC, but I do care about the impact of my work. I don’t want to do an MBA (am already a PM), but I have to for a visa. An MBA is my only option (other than a CS masters - which I could do - but I already have a CS undergrad)
I barley see any value in roles until one has moved up to director or executive levels. Like a VP in my org is 20+ years of handson experience is now pursuing a specialised leadership course as Harvard. I see a lot of sense here as he interfaces with million-dollar clients, prepare charters and plays active part in costing and compliance. On the other hand a small time EM (from my previous org adobe) who could barely write any code jumped into 1 year executive diploma with an IIM, and the only change I saw in him was sense of entitlement and increased level of confidence while delivering bullshit.
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It is a degree merely oriented to increase your TC and propel your career to management positions
I don’t have any degree, yet my TC is pretty good, higher than most MBAs at my level and so far I’ve never felt the need for an MBA. MBA PMs spend 6-10 yrs in college, I spent them in learning valuable skills, building deep domain expertise and industry experience. If you are comparing 2 candidates with zero YOE or any outstanding skills and one of them has an MBA, they have a higher chance of getting the job, but a candidate with skills and experience but no degree can crush it. Interviewers don’t even ask me about my education, they are more interested in my work. TC: 500k+
What level do you need to be to earn 500+ at intuit?